• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

GusB

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
8,141
Location
Elginshire
The City is only available on the full height body.
Not if I've read their website correctly.


To suit operating requirements, the Enviro400 is available in lengths of 10.3m/10.5m, 10.9m and 11.5m and built to heights of 4.2m or 4.3m, with one or two passenger doors.

The Enviro400 is available with a wide range of specification options including the eye-catching City style body with its glazed staircase. Its interior is tailored to deliver a bespoke journey experience with a choice of passenger-centric features such as skylights, social seating, mood lighting or device charging options.

(my emphasis)
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
Not if I've read their website correctly.




(my emphasis)

Yes it seems you're right, although it's only recently started being offered. It would go some way to explaining why the new Citys in Bristol, Birmingham and Manchester lack the glazed staircase as i assume this hasn't been developed for the low height body yet.
 

jammy36

Member
Joined
28 Aug 2013
Messages
324
This maybe why in Bristol earlier this year the metrobus service m3 was swapped from Scania chasis E400s with low height bodywork to Scania CNG Citys, the m2 wasn’t.

The m2 has to be a low height body to go over an ex swing bridge which carried a railway line. Apparently, even though ADL offer a low height integral E400MMC, the guidewheels for the guided bus way can’t be attached, whereas they can be on a Scania chasis.
I think the Scania (CNG) gas double decker is only available to full height due to the positioning of the gas tanks.

To be pedantic they're CBG (Compression Bio-Gas) rather than CNG.
To be fair the chassis manufacturer sometimes refers to them as CNG (compressed natural gas) vehicles and ADL to them as Enviro400 CBG (compressed bio gas). They can be run on Bio-CNG or fossil CNG.

The City is only available on the full height body.
Yes it seems you're right, although it's only recently started being offered. It would go some way to explaining why the new Citys in Bristol, Birmingham and Manchester lack the glazed staircase as i assume this hasn't been developed for the low height body yet.
The City body was initially full height only. The Stagecoach BYDs for Manchester were the first built with low height bodies.
 

D2007wsm

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2015
Messages
1,316
I think the Scania (CNG) gas double decker is only available to full height due to the positioning of the gas tanks.


To be fair the chassis manufacturer sometimes refers to them as CNG (compressed natural gas) vehicles and ADL to them as Enviro400 CBG (compressed bio gas). They can be run on Bio-CNG or fossil CNG.



The City body was initially full height only. The Stagecoach BYDs for Manchester were the first built with low height bodies.
The City body gas buses in Bristol have 2 designs. The dual door examples used on the m1 and m2 plus the original gas bus have glazed staircases, whereas the single door examples used on Citylines and South Glous Lynx service’s don’t. Rumour this was so maximum advertising space is available and not wasted on the glazed staircase. Where the glazing usually is, there is a black panel the same shape
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,262
The City was developed for London, at a time when having a "Borismaster lookalike" was necessary or least desirable

To me, it seems like unnecessary duplication to now have 2 different double decker designs, seeing that the regular E400MMC is quite stylish anyway
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
6,114
The City was developed for London, at a time when having a "Borismaster lookalike" was necessary or least desirable

To me, it seems like unnecessary duplication to now have 2 different double decker designs, seeing that the regular E400MMC is quite stylish anyway

But the City lower dash panel looks very similar to the E200 MMC, so if you want a common image for single and double deckers, you can opt for the E400 City.
 

cnjb8

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
2,303
Location
Nottingham
Yes it seems you're right, although it's only recently started being offered. It would go some way to explaining why the new Citys in Bristol, Birmingham and Manchester lack the glazed staircase as i assume this hasn't been developed for the low height body yet.
I think it was speced like that. I read somewhere that Stagecoach refused to have glazed staircases on their Manchester electric buses.
 

CBlue

Member
Joined
30 Mar 2020
Messages
859
Location
East Angular
Stagecoach probably specified the removal of the glazed staircase due to any additional maintenance / increased risk of damage to the glass. As such a big buyer with ADL they can often do such - when the E400 and E200 were facelifted, all Stagecoach deliveries carried on being supplied with the pre-facelift front bumper and headlamp design presumably to cut down on the spares required.
 

Goldfish62

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
13,180
The City was developed for London, at a time when having a "Borismaster lookalike" was necessary or least desirable

To me, it seems like unnecessary duplication to now have 2 different double decker designs, seeing that the regular E400MMC is quite stylish anyway
I'm sure ADL think it's worth it, otherwise they wouldn't offer both designs.

Incidentally, the BYD chassis is only available with the City bodywork.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,262
I'm sure ADL think it's worth it, otherwise they wouldn't offer both designs.

Incidentally, the BYD chassis is only available with the City bodywork.
They've designed it, so they might as well sell it

You imagine that with the next generation though, they won't offer 2 different bodies...
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
22,938
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
This maybe why in Bristol earlier this year the metrobus service m3 was swapped from Scania chasis E400s with low height bodywork to Scania CNG Citys, the m2 wasn’t.

The m2 has to be a low height body to go over an ex swing bridge which carried a railway line. Apparently, even though ADL offer a low height integral E400MMC, the guidewheels for the guided bus way can’t be attached, whereas they can be on a Scania chasis.

39401 was tested on Ashton Avenue Bridge for clearance though - it was close but got through. Too little margin?
 

Haru

Member
Joined
21 Nov 2019
Messages
112
Location
Bristol
The CBG Scania apparently has a wider rear axle to accommodate the extra mass therefore it’s the width that made it unsuitable.
 

D2007wsm

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2015
Messages
1,316
39401 was tested on Ashton Avenue Bridge for clearance though - it was close but got through. Too little margin?
Apparently it got through OK just. I think a little more headroom was preferred. After speaking to a m2 driver today, apparently it was a little too wide. The tyres rubbed on the guide rail. Whereas they don’t on a standard Enviro body
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
In reply to a post in the Lothian Buses and ECB discussion thread.

I'm no expert by any means but thinking back, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a DL building anything longer than an 11-point something metre. As far as as single deck service buses are concerned

if it is an MCV then I'll be very interested to see how they cope, certainly my previous experience of anything they've built has been less than positive

ADL from 2004 once UK regulations allowed offered the Enviro 300 integral in lengths up to 12.8M, likewise most if not all Scania/E300s were 12.8m and there was a batch of MAN/E300s also at 12.8M.

ADL E300 Integral (12.8M)

Man 18.240 / Enviro 300 (12.8M)

The same argument could've been made regarding the Enviro400XLBs as no UK decker (excluding coaches) had been built over 12.4M at that point.
 

CN04NRJ

Established Member
Joined
28 Nov 2019
Messages
1,889
Location
UK
In reply to a post in the Lothian Buses and ECB discussion thread.



ADL originally offered the Enviro 300 integral in lengths up to 12.8M, likewise most if not all Scania/E300s were 12.8m and there was a batch of MAN/E300s also at 12.8M.

ADL E300 Integral (12.8M)

Man 18.240 / Enviro 300 (12.8M)

The same argument could've been made regarding the Enviro400XLBs as no UK decker (excluding coaches) had been built over 12.4M at that point.

My other half drove those MANs out of Stagecoach Brynmawr before they were all shipped north - they were quite the squeeze around the South Wales valleys apparently. I hear some of them have recently been resurrected up here? (well, those that haven't self combusted yet).
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
My other half drove those MANs out of Stagecoach Brynmawr before they were all shipped north - they were quite the squeeze around the South Wales valleys apparently. I hear some of them have recently been resurrected up here? (well, those that haven't self combusted yet).

Yes, Bluebird have 22780/81/85/91 working out of Insch, basically the examples refitted to Cummins units. They're surprisingly quite reliable now and suit the routes Bluebird have quite well.
 

scosutsut

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2019
Messages
1,220
Location
scosutsut
Random question, may have been covered elsewhere, what is the situation with Wrightbus warranty work. Does the resurrected Bamford Bus Wright honour it, or wash its hands of it?
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,654
Location
Aberdeen
Random question, may have been covered elsewhere, what is the situation with Wrightbus warranty work. Does the resurrected Bamford Bus Wright honour it, or wash its hands of it?

Not sure although i doubt it would make much difference, from my understanding Wright's aftercare prior to the Bamford Era was pretty poor.
 

Volvodart

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2010
Messages
2,946
ADL begins consultation on up to 650 job losses
by PASSENGER TRANSPORT on Aug 20, 2020 • 1:10 pmNo Comments
Bus builder plans to stop manufacturing in Guildford and transfer chassis production to its Falkirk factory

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2020/08/adl-begins-consultation-on-loss-of-up-to-650-jobs/

Alexander Dennis Limited has today announced that it has begun the formal consultation on its previously announced restructuring programme in response to the significant fall in demand for new buses and coaches in the United Kingdom as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.
The UK”s biggest bus builder, which was acquired Canada-based NFI Group Inc last year, says that the dramatic fall in demand for new buses and coaches as a result of lockdown, social distancing and low passenger numbers has left it with no alternative but to adjust its business to the current economic situation.
Since the announcement on July 27 of a restructuring programme that puts up to 650 jobs at risk across all of the company’s UK facilities, ADL has continued its dialogue with the UK and Scottish Governments and other stakeholders.
Appearing before the House of Commons Transport Select Committee in June, transport secretary Grant Shapps suggested that the step-change in government funding for buses announced earlier this year could be used to acquire 4,000 new buses.
“The £5bn that was announced for cycling, walking AND buses, there’s £3bn of that that we have yet to allocate … there’s £3bn of investment in buses yet to come,” he told MPs. “I think we think we’ll be able to buy something like 4,000 new buses as part of that investment, and do many other things.”
There is still no immediate visibility of the stimulus funding urgently required to support operators to place orders, making it necessary to begin its formal consultation on the proposed changes
However, today’s statement from ADL said: “There is still no immediate visibility of the stimulus funding urgently required to support operators to place orders, making it necessary to begin its formal consultation on the proposed changes.”
In a statement issued today, ADL said that it remained firmly committed to working with its customers and supporting the bus and coach operating industry, which is battling an unprecedented crisis. The restructuring programme is designed to adjust current capacity without compromising the company’s ability to respond to a resurgence of demand in the future.
Following experience of vertical integration at ADL’s facilities in North America and the Asia Pacific region, where building chassis and body on the same site has demonstrated efficiencies in terms of output, time, cost and co-ordination, ADL intends to transfer chassis production to its Falkirk factory. This will impact around 200 employees in manufacturing and operational support roles at Guildford.
Non-manufacturing functions including Engineering, Test & Development and Aftermarket will continue to be based at the Guildford site.
“The Dennis brand is of huge significance to the company, with its proud history and heritage of automotive innovation dating back to its inception in 1895,” said Paul Davies, ADL president and managing director. “We will fight hard to protect this legacy and will continue to invest in our chassis product range, which will continue to be engineered in Guildford.”
The current lack of demand for new buses and coaches will also mean the potential loss of 90 production jobs in Scarborough and a net reduction of 160 manufacturing roles in Falkirk, even with chassis assembly transferred to that site.
As the company adjusts its overhead to the change in manufacturing activity, a further 200 roles will be affected in support functions across all UK sites. ADL is actively seeking voluntary redundancies to reduce the number of compulsory job losses.
We remain confident that the situation will improve in time, and we are well placed to take advantage when that happens
Davies commented: “We have no choice but to implement these tough decisions to protect the company’s future health. We remain confident that the situation will improve in time, and we are well placed to take advantage when that happens, but right now we have to adjust to our new economic reality.
“We continue to call upon the UK and Scottish Governments to urgently introduce meaningful support to facilitate demand for new buses and coaches, not only to prevent further damage to UK bus and coach manufacturing that could threaten additional production sites, but to help build back better with a green recovery that delivers cleaner air for our towns and cities.
“The installed UK fleet is currently approximately 50,000 buses and 21,000 coaches with an average age of nearly 11 years. Further, only 0.1% of the total fleet are electric, which provides opportunity for massive reduction of the environmental footprint.”
 

37114

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2019
Messages
511
It is a shame to see Guilford close but not a surprise given the labour costs in Surrey and the drop on demand. Also ADL have yet to come up with a full electric chassis of their own so have seen custom for all ADL vehicles switch to ADL/BYD in places like London which won't have helped volumes
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,262
Sad news, but it doesn't make much sense to make chassis in Guildford and then drive them all the way to Scotland to be bodied, if they don't need the capacity. It's not like the old days when operators would mix and match chassis and bodywork
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
6,114
THe London Omnibus Traction Society has reported that 17 Optare Metrodeckers have been ordered for route 200; Go Ahead has previously purchased ADL E400EVs for double deck contracts.

However, again according to LOTS, no EVs have yet been ordered for route 358, for the contract renewal due in September. The smart money would have been on ADL E200s, but does the Metrodecker order suggest a change in purchasing?
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,599
Sad news but I'm not surprised about ADL. There aren't many buses being ordered at the moment
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
6,114
If Optare is as slow with these Metrodeckers as they have been with the Reading order, it won't make a lot of sense to order them in large quantities.

The order for the 358 requires single-deckers. I would assume that since Metrocity EVs have been round for longer than the Metrodecker, the lag time would be shorter.
 

Swanny200

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2010
Messages
680
Do they still do the Fire Engine chassis at Guildford or have Dennis stopped doing Fire appliances completely now?
 

Swanny200

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2010
Messages
680
They stopped in 2007

I didn't even realize, there are still a few of the Dennis Sabre appliances running around so I thought they were still making them, I assume the bin lorries are made at a different site then
 

LOL The Irony

Established Member
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
I didn't even realize, there are still a few of the Dennis Sabre appliances running around so I thought they were still making them, I assume the bin lorries are made at a different site then
The refuse collection side of the business was never part of ADL, it's owned by the Dutch Terberg RosRoca.
 

Top