Ebbw Vale line suggestions for service provision and infrastructure changes

[Philip Roberts]

Not sure the infrastructure could support 4tph up the Marches, even to Abergavenny, currently. It goes to AB after Little Mill with a relatively long section. I think 3tph would be the max. I think it could manage 4 or 5, but that would need to include the Manchester, Holyhead, new Liverpool, and freight, before you consider this service. If the plan is 1tp2h for Holyhead and 1tp2h for Liverpool, alternating to give an a 1tph service to Chester, then it might just fit. But the shunt is still an issue.

The shunt at Abergavenny for terminating trains isn't exactly quick and simple, either.

I'm assuming 4tph would mean two to Cardiff (and potentially beyond) and 2 to Newport (and potentially beyond)

 

[Envoy]

If the WAG electrify to Abergavenny it may make it easier long term to electrify all the way to Crewe.

Yes - BUT the WAG have just ordered a new fleet of CAF Class 197’s which will be diesel only so therefore unable to justify electrifying The Marches route for many years.

 

[CardiffKid]

Yes - BUT the WAG have just ordered a new fleet of CAF Class 197’s which will be diesel only so therefore unable to justify electrifying The Marches route for many years.

Correct I can't see the Welsh Government (WG not WAG!) electrifying anything outside the core Valley lines in the next twenty years or so tbh given the massive diesel only rolling stock order that's now gone in.

The idea of the WG electrifying 'to the border' (i.e. Abergavenny station) is really wishful thinking by some. If and it was a big if the WG were serious, they would have electrified the Cardiff-Swansea mainline (and then chuck in Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Vale of Glamorgan too) and specified that the 197s be bimode which would also have helped get more use out of the electric function of the 231s.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Correct I can't see the Welsh Government (WG not WAG!) electrifying anything outside the core Valley lines in the next twenty years or so tbh given the massive diesel only rolling stock order that's now gone in.

The idea of the WG electrifying 'to the border' (i.e. Abergavenny station) is really wishful thinking by some. If and it was a big if the WG were serious, they would have electrified the Cardiff-Swansea mainline (and then chuck in Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Vale of Glamorgan too) and specified that the 197s be bimode which would also have helped get more use out of the electric function of the 231s.

The fact they haven't done the mainline electrification is a missed opportunity. And it shows really how little the WG understands the franchise as a whole. Their focus has massively been on the SW Metro and ignored the wider franchise area in terms of infrastructure improvements.

If they were going to do the Marches, they should go to at least Shrewsbury. Even though it's over the border, it's their railway and their bit of the franchise, although that really has been ignored as much as possible. Trying to ignore the "English" bit of the franchise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==

I'm assuming 4tph would mean two to Cardiff (and potentially beyond) and 2 to Newport (and potentially beyond)

I read it as 4tph to Abergavenny, as the ambition was to have 4tph in the metro area and Abergavenny was on that map. Without some resignalling that wouldn't be possible. But a resignalling scheme all the way to Salop would go hand in hand with knitting up the Marches

 

[Philip Roberts]

The fact they haven't done the mainline electrification is a missed opportunity. And it shows really how little the WG understands the franchise as a whole. Their focus has massively been on the SW Metro and ignored the wider franchise area in terms of infrastructure improvements.

If they were going to do the Marches, they should go to at least Shrewsbury. Even though it's over the border, it's their railway and their bit of the franchise, although that really has been ignored as much as possible. Trying to ignore the "English" bit of the franchise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2020 ==


I read it as 4tph to Abergavenny, as the ambition was to have 4tph in the metro area and Abergavenny was on that map. Without some resignalling that wouldn't be possible. But a resignalling scheme all the way to Salop would go hand in hand with knitting up the Marches

Mention of 4tph on the Welsh Government website (although it's so horrendously written and formatted it's hard to understand what it's trying to say):

"Economy and Transport Minister Ken Skates has announced a reopening of the feasibility study into increasing the frequency of trains running from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff."

Ebbw Vale train frequency enhancement scheme starts | GOV.WALES

Transport Minister calls on UK Government to stop failing Welsh railways

gov.wales

 

[tiptoptaff]

Crossed wires I think - I wasn't suggesting 4tph Ebbw-Aber, but that if Aber was to get 4tph (however that's made up, probably a Manchester, Holyhead/Liverpool and the Ebbws) that currently, 4tph with two terminating probably isn't possible

 

[The Planner]

If the WAG electrify to Abergavenny it may make it easier long term to electrify all the way to Crewe.

I'd rather we resignalled it first.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I'd rather we resignalled it first.

What needs doing? Little Mill to Shrewsbury, and how much of the rest?

 

[The Planner]

What needs doing? Little Mill to Shrewsbury, and how much of the rest?

That isn't a small job in itself. Shrewsbury to Crewe and Wolves is already done.

 

[Llanigraham]

What needs doing? Little Mill to Shrewsbury, and how much of the rest?

Have you worked out how many Boxes that is?
I reckon 13 not including Severn Bridge.

 

[Caaardiff]

The new timetable doesn't allow for quick turnbacks at Cardiff Central and seems to arrive back at least 10 mins later than the old timetable. Previously there was only a few minutes max between the Ebbw arriving and next one departing. Although it was usually diagrammed a separate unit.
Units then shunt out for a good 35-45 mind and sit in platform before the next journey.

Personally i think a more efficient use would be for all Ebbw Vale - Cardiff trains to drop in to Newport en route and utilise that spare time at Central.

There's also the planned Cardiff Parkway that needs to be utilised. As yet no confirmation on which trains (high or locals) will stop there. Or if it will even go ahead!

 

[yorkie]

Can we try to stick to suggestions for services planned to use the Ebbw Vale Line please?

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create a new thread, if there isn't a suitable thread already.

The thread to discuss suggestions for additional Marches line services can be found here: Suggestions for additional Marches services

Thanks

 

[cle]

Can we try to stick to suggestions for services planned to use the Ebbw Vale Line please?

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create a new thread, if there isn't a suitable thread already.

The thread to discuss suggestions for additional Marches line services can be found here: Suggestions for additional Marches services

Thanks

Sorry (I did say it wasn't worth a new thread!) - I hadn't thought that same 'splitting off tangential topics' approach applied in the Speculative sub-forum, and it was a bit more like fluid dialogue was ok in here.