UK face coverings discussion

[Ianno87]

Some people just don't get satire, clearly...

'Muzzles' isn't intelligent enough to be satire.

It's shaming something that is intended to help people get back to normal, that might, might make a difference.

 

[43066]

'Muzzles' isn't intelligent enough to be satire.

It's shaming something that is intended to help people get back to normal, that might, might make a difference.

There’s little to no evidence it will help in any way shape or form - and indeed it might make things worse.

It’s intended to a. Allow the government to be seen to be doing something, and b. Keep people frightened.

 

[Yew]

'Muzzles' isn't intelligent enough to be satire.

It's shaming something that is intended to help people get back to normal, that might, might make a difference.

Normal? Last time I checked, face coverings weren't normal..

 

[Darandio]

Normal? Last time I checked, face coverings weren't normal..

Of course not.

Throwing aside the ridiculous names and constant repeats that masks are useless, if someone has been stuck in the house for so long and they see a mask as a way to get them to the shops then that may be something that seems more normal for them. I believe that is what @Ianno87 meant and I suspect you did as well.

 

[Yew]

Of course not.

Throwing aside the ridiculous names and constant repeats that masks are useless, if someone has been stuck in the house for so long and they see a mask as a way to get them to the shops then that may be something that seems more normal for them. I believe that is what @Ianno87 meant and I suspect you did as well.

If people want placebos, it's traditional to use sugar pills.

 

[DB]

'Muzzles' isn't intelligent enough to be satire.

It's shaming something that is intended to help people get back to normal, that might, might make a difference.

Ah well, unfortunately we can't all be as massively intelligent as yourself, clearly...

The evidence that they make any difference at all is very weak indeed, and they are the antithesis of 'normal'.

 

[Andyh82]

Not as far as I am concerned it doesn't.

There are many people who don't like wearing the wretched things, and if the government is ever so foolish as to try and mandate them everywhere outside the home, I think there will be mass civil disobedience.

I think the media and social media is a bit preoccupied at the moment with exam results, so the news from France may have been missed but the way these things pan out is that the general consensus is that every single other country bar america is doing better at everything than us, so if a country brings something in, questions are asked about why we aren't doing the same.

These questions are asked by the media, social media, "experts" and the opposition

Then Sturgeon brings it in to be seen to be doing things better and more timely than Boris

Then Boris brings it in, is said to be "late" and by which time everyone is basically for it.

 

[DB]

I think the media and social media is a bit preoccupied at the moment with exam results, so the news from France may have been missed but the way these things pan out is that the general consensus is that every single other country bar america is doing better at everything than us, so if a country brings something in, questions are asked about why we aren't doing the same.

You've forgotten Sweden! They get criticised by the media, despite their figures being actually better than ours and those of several other European countries.

 

[island]

Not as far as I am concerned it doesn't.

There are many people who don't like wearing the wretched things, and if the government is ever so foolish as to try and mandate them everywhere outside the home, I think there will be mass civil disobedience.

I hope you’re right but I fear you’re wrong. The little changes continue to happen and the frog continues to boil.

 

[Mojo]

Government response to a petition asking that the requirement to wear masks be repealed:

Archived Petition: Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops.

Reverse the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English Shops.

petition.parliament.uk

As footfall increases, we want to give people more confidence to shop safely, and enhance protections for those who work in shops. The British Retail Consortium has said that together with other social distancing measures, face coverings can make shoppers feel even more confident about returning to the high street.

As many suspected, it's all about making people feel safe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are many people who don't like wearing the wretched things, and if the government is ever so foolish as to try and mandate them everywhere outside the home, I think there will be mass civil disobedience.

That may be so, but they are "masks" or "face coverings", not "nappies". If you're trying to make a sensible argument (which you are, just one I don't agree with) it helps to keep it serious. I wouldn't call it satire; satire is clever - it's just immature.

 

[Yew]

Government response to a petition asking that the requirement to wear masks be repealed:

Archived Petition: Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops.

Reverse the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English Shops.

petition.parliament.uk

As many suspected, it's all about making people feel safe.

The reports seem to suggest that it has made people less likely to go out though. The Govt have shot themselves in the foot so many times it's surprising they're still standing.

 

[Bantamzen]

Government response to a petition asking that the requirement to wear masks be repealed:

Archived Petition: Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops.

Reverse the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English Shops.

petition.parliament.uk

As many suspected, it's all about making people feel safe.

Indeed, we always knew this because quite honestly the government have never really hidden this fact very well.

That may be so, but they are "masks" or "face coverings", not "nappies". If you're trying to make a sensible argument (which you are, just one I don't agree with) it helps to keep it serious. I wouldn't call it satire; satire is clever - it's just immature.

Perhaps in turn you could stop chasing down people using derogatory terms and start to acknowledge the above is why more and more people are becoming cynical to the use of coverings "to protect others"?

 

[westv]

The creep, creep of mask expansion continues

Coronavirus: France to make face masks mandatory in most workplaces

The new rule is set to apply to shared spaces in offices and factories and comes as infections rise.

www.bbc.co.uk

France is to make face masks compulsory in most workplaces as it grapples with a resurgence in coronavirus cases.
The new rule is likely to apply to all shared spaces in offices and factories where there is more than one employee present.

 

[MikeWM]

The creep, creep of mask expansion continues

Coronavirus: France to make face masks mandatory in most workplaces

The new rule is set to apply to shared spaces in offices and factories and comes as infections rise.

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting 'logic'. 'The more places we make people wear masks, the more infections we get. Clearly what we need to do is make people wear masks in even more places! That'll fix it!'

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Interesting 'logic'. 'The more places we make people wear masks, the more infections we get. Clearly what we need to do is make people wear masks in even more places! That'll fix it!'

It's because they are not wearing them 'hard enough'. People really must try harder. Use masking tape around the edges. Only exhale gently. Goddammit, wear two masks at a time!

 

[Bantamzen]

It's because they are not wearing them 'hard enough'. People really must try harder. Use masking tape around the edges. Only exhale gently. Goddammit, wear two masks at a time!

Additionally we could breath less, say by half, therefore reducing the risk by half....

 

[43066]

Government response to a petition asking that the requirement to wear masks be repealed:

Archived Petition: Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops.

Reverse the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English Shops.

petition.parliament.uk

As many suspected, it's all about making people feel safe.

The government as good as acknowledge this in a mealy mouthed way as their own guidance only states that face coverings might make a difference. The evidence simply isn’t there for them to be more definitive.

I suppose the jury is out on whether they really want to make people feel safe, serve as a visual reminder of the virus (as I alluded to above), or a bit of both. Neither are “following the science”, as they claim.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2020 ==

That may be so, but they are "masks" or "face coverings", not "nappies". If you're trying to make a sensible argument (which you are, just one I don't agree with) it helps to keep it serious. I wouldn't call it satire; satire is clever - it's just immature.

I can see why people do it.

A bit like wearing a beekeeper’s hat, it’s simply poking fun at a policy a lot of people consider to be baseless, sinister and which is causing many people a great deal of anxiety at the moment.

 

[duncanp]

Never mind a beekeepers hat, what about a lettuce leaf or a piece of orange peel

Yes of course it is ineffective, but it complies with the law and makes people feel "safe", which is the important thing.

 

[Westcountryman]

My daughter has told me about a reported incident in France. Apparently a passenger was not wearing a mask. He was asked to wear one and refused. He was fined 15 Euros. Then he was asked if he would wear a mask. He again refused, so they stopped the train in the middle of nowhere and made him get off. Wouldn't happen here due to H & S and the furore if something then happened to him.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

BBC News website:

France to make face masks mandatory in most workplaces

Very selective cut and paste:

France has seen a sharp rise in coronavirus cases since July and masks are already widely used.

Presumably the masktivists will argue that the rise would be even greater were it not for masks?

The measure is set to begin on 1 September. Individual offices will be exempt.

If masks are already in widespread use, and they have such a massive benefit, what is the argument for a delay until 1st September? People will already have a supply, manufacturers / importers are already in the business of supplying.

Health officials suggest that almost a quarter of new clusters have been linked to workplaces outside medical settings, reports BBC Paris correspondent Lucy Williamson.

By calculation therefore, three quarters of the outbreaks will be wholly unaffected by the rule change.

I see Ms Sturgeon is getting overwrought at an outbreak with NINE confirmed cases. The end of the world is nigh.

Entire BBC article, minus graphics and photographs:

France is to make face masks compulsory in most workplaces as it grapples with a resurgence in coronavirus cases.

The new rule is likely to apply to all shared spaces in offices and factories where there is more than one employee present.

The measure is set to begin on 1 September. Individual offices will be exempt.

France has seen a sharp rise in coronavirus cases since July and masks are already widely used.

Its average number of new cases over seven days is now well above 2,000, double what it was at the start of the month.

About 220,000 people have now been infected and more than 30,000 have died.

Health officials suggest that almost a quarter of new clusters have been linked to workplaces outside medical settings, reports BBC Paris correspondent Lucy Williamson.

The spike comes as the government encourages the country back to work in order to fill a 11% hole in its budget, she adds.

France imposed one of Europe's strictest lockdowns in March, which was gradually lifted from 11 May.

Following fresh outbreaks in July, the government made face masks compulsory in enclosed public spaces. Several cities have also mandated their use in busy outdoor areas.

Until now, however, the French government has only advised the wearing of masks at work when social distancing is not possible.

Health minister Elisabeth Borne discussed the issue with union leaders on Tuesday and the new advice is expected to be published in the coming days.

The latest measure follows updated advice on the risk of aerosol infections.

Coronavirus is spread when droplets are sprayed into the air when infected people talk, cough or sneeze. Those droplets can then fall on surfaces.

But experts say there is also emerging evidence of people catching the virus from tiny particles hanging in aerosol form in the air.

France is among several European countries tightening coronavirus restrictions, amid increasing infections - particularly among younger people.

Italy has made it compulsory to wear masks at bars and clubs in the evening.

Meanwhile, the opening match of the 2020-21 season for France's top football league, Ligue 1, has been postponed.

The first fixture, in which Marseille were set to take on Saint-Etienne on Friday, has been called off after four positive coronavirus tests at Marseille.

The opening match will now be played on either 16 or 17 September.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My daughter has told me about a reported incident in France. Apparently a passenger was not wearing a mask. He was asked to wear one and refused. He was fined 15 Euros. Then he was asked if he would wear a mask. He again refused, so they stopped the train in the middle of nowhere and made him get off. Wouldn't happen here due to H & S and the furore if something then happened to him.

Must admit I wish I'd see more of that here, like used to be the case. We seem overly obsessed with the rights and welfare of people committing a criminal offence, be that non-wearing of masks (unless exempt) or fare-dodging. Well, how about if you commit a criminal offence your rights and welfare aren't all that important? I'm very much in support of "off at the next station even if it's Cheddington or Altnabreac" myself, and following guards warned not to let them on. A long walk would concentrate minds.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I see Ms Sturgeon is getting overwrought at an outbreak with NINE confirmed cases. The end of the world is nigh.

Ireland have also just announced some more restrictions due to "spike" in cases.


Farcical. On the positive side, they've not mandated masks everywhere possible and hoped for the best.

 

[LowLevel]

Must admit I wish I'd see more of that here, like used to be the case. We seem overly obsessed with the rights and welfare of people committing a criminal offence, be that non-wearing of masks (unless exempt) or fare-dodging. Well, how about if you commit a criminal offence your rights and welfare aren't all that important? I'm very much in support of "off at the next station even if it's Cheddington or Altnabreac" myself. A long walk would concentrate minds.

Life is complicated and taking a black and white view of such things is daft. Pulling up at closed stations and throwing people out was a thing until fairly recently.

What if my assessment of someone's character was off, they were having a bad day and I put them out in the middle of nowhere in winter and they came to harm? I'm a ticket inspector not a sadist.

I like to cause regular "problems" a bit of a run around but I don't want actually harm them.

 

[Richard Scott]

Must admit I wish I'd see more of that here, like used to be the case. We seem overly obsessed with the rights and welfare of people committing a criminal offence, be that non-wearing of masks (unless exempt) or fare-dodging. Well, how about if you commit a criminal offence your rights and welfare aren't all that important? I'm very much in support of "off at the next station even if it's Cheddington or Altnabreac" myself, and following guards warned not to let them on. A long walk would concentrate minds.

You have a very odd concept of modern life? This is the sort of thing dished out by Victorians and, guess what, they still had crime. Not wearing a face mask, what a naughty person. Appreciate it's a criminal offence but please.

 

[Domh245]

On the topic of ejecting people at stations, what does it actually achieve - other than a nice wad of delay? You also make it sound so easy, given that the person wasn't wearing a mask (and following instructions) what makes you think that telling him to get off the train will actually result in him do so without fuss? Given everything we're being told about minimising contact (particularly as that's been proven to work) surely the best case scenario is for the guard to shrug (Gallic-ly if they wish) and just get on with the rest of their duties.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the topic of ejecting people at stations, what does it actually achieve - other than a nice wad of delay? You also make it sound so easy, given that the person wasn't wearing a mask (and following instructions) what makes you think that telling him to get off the train will actually result in him do so without fuss? Given everything we're being told about minimising contact (particularly as that's been proven to work) surely the best case scenario is for the guard to shrug (Gallic-ly if they wish) and just get on with the rest of their duties.

I could accept a guard choosing not to engage. However, to me it is the best outcome. The person potentially posing a hazard to other passengers is off, and they get a harsh lesson by having to take a long walk.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Must admit I wish I'd see more of that here, like used to be the case. We seem overly obsessed with the rights and welfare of people committing a criminal offence, be that non-wearing of masks (unless exempt) or fare-dodging. Well, how about if you commit a criminal offence your rights and welfare aren't all that important? I'm very much in support of "off at the next station even if it's Cheddington or Altnabreac" myself, and following guards warned not to let them on. A long walk would concentrate minds.

Given the ample supply of stones readily available (ie ballast), perhaps the passengers and crew should have turned to more radical solutions?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Back on the topic of face coverings, a quick look on Twitter reveals:

@XploreDundee as a regular bus user throughout the pandemic this week now the schools are back I noticed very few people wearing masks. Not feeling very safe at the moment

@on_lothianbuses I don't feel safe on your buses. Besides from a couple of signs there are no practical or effective social distancing measures. Therefore I will be avoiding taking your buses from now on.

I'm sorry, but I don't give a toss if you don't feel safe. I'm only concerned if you are safe - and that's down to you I'm afraid, by following the physical distancing and personal hygiene recommendations.
------------------------------

The person potentially posing a hazard to other passengers is off

Were they posing a hazard to other passengers pre-mandate, or.... ?

Oh, and how would you know if they were exempt or not, given that proof of exemption is not required?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, and how would you know if they were exempt or not, given that proof of exemption is not required?

It seems, usefully, that most refuseniks are not quite as brazen (or too stupid) as to lie stating they have an exemption when they don't have one. Or perhaps they prefer to try to make a point. Either way, refusal of travel (for the entire day, so they have to find another way home) is a great way of teaching a lesson that this sort of arrogance won't be accepted.