Could the Canada Dock or Bootle - Aintree lines reopen to passengers?

[507021]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/merseyrail-class-777.153458

OK, as long as Merseyside passengers/ratepayers pay for the profligacy. They are already hugely subsidised.

Well, it would help if large parts of the city weren't left without a rail connection (such as mothballing the North Liverpool Extension) when the network was first built.

That way, coverage and patronage would be higher so the required subsidy which we're seemingly begrudged would be lower.

A good start to correcting this would be applying for the necessary government funding to get the Canada Dock Branch open to passengers again.

I cannot believe there seems to be next to no ambition to add this ready-made line to the Merseyrail network.

 

[Ribbleman]

Since my original post, it's been explained by Trains Trains the profit figures I've given are actually that of the franchise operator, not Merseyrail, as the concession is designed so it can't be either profitable or unprofitable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2020 ==



Well, it would help if large parts of the city weren't left without a rail connection (such as mothballing the North Liverpool Extension) when the network was first built. That way, coverage and patronage would be higher so the required subsidy which we're seemingly begrudged would be lower. A good start to correcting this would be applying for the necessary government funding to get the Canada Dock Branch open to passengers again. I cannot believe there seems to be next to no ambition to add this ready-made line to the Merseyrail network.

The Canada Dock branch reopening idea was only going to be for possible freight flows. Since then the cutting on the line from the former Atlantic Dock Junction has been filled in and the site of the station is now a branch of Screwfix. In any case, it's a long way from there to the nearest housing and you would have to go past Bankhall Station to get there.

 

[507021]

The Canada Dock branch reopening idea was only going to be for possible freight flows. Since then the cutting on the line from the former Atlantic Dock Junction has been filled in and the site of the station is now a branch of Screwfix. In any case, it's a long way from there to the nearest housing and you would have to go past Bankhall Station to get there.

Well apparently the Liverpool City Council commissioned a feasibility study into re-opening the line to passengers late last year, so, I guess it's a case of waiting to see what the results of the study are.

 

[childwallblues]

I have advocated for years that the Bootle to Aintree route should be re-opened. The line is till there and occasionally re-activated when major engineering works are required.

 

[Trains Trains]

With the money issues everyone now has

 

[Meerkat]

I have advocated for years that the Bootle to Aintree route should be re-opened. The line is till there and occasionally re-activated when major engineering works are required.

But why? Where does it serve that this line will be nearer than a current station?
it smacks of a solution looking for a problem, a reopening fetish

 

[PR1Berske]

But why? Where does it serve that this line will be nearer than a current station?
it smacks of a solution looking for a problem, a reopening fetish

Ford and Linacre Road could have futures as new stations.

 

[Meerkat]

Ford and Linacre Road could have futures as new stations.

Linacre Road is 500m from Seaforth & Litherland, Ford just over 1100m from Orrell station (which would have quicker trains)
I just can’t see how it would ever make a business case, certainly not above other places Merseyrail could extend to.

 

[KevinTurvey]

This is the state of the cutting to the west of the Girobank in May this year. I am not sure when the line was last used but 2007 springs to mind for access when they re-laid the Aughton Park area. The line runs diagonally from top right to bottom left beneath the decade of foliage for anyone not familiar.
I have thought that integrating this with the main revitalised Bootle branch i.e. Lime St - Edge Hill - Tuebrook - Anfield - Walton - Bootle - Aintree would be really useful to help link things up and ease some of the congestion, especially on match days (remember them?) which can be horrific

 

[tetudo boy]

With the money issues everyone now has

It's not just COVID-19, Walton itself (and the area surrounding it) is a pretty financially unstable place, due to the post-war effects after WW2. An investment like reopening the Canada dock line would be almost impossible unless there is another way of funding.

Kayla Bibby made a map of what could be the reopening of the Canada dock line including a new line through the city centre. It's called the sergeant pepper line (yes, after the Beatles song.) Take a look:

 

[6Gman]

I have advocated for years that the Bootle to Aintree route should be re-opened. The line is till there and occasionally re-activated when major engineering works are required.

Really?

 

[Bevan Price]

I don't think reopening Edge Hill to Bootle / Canada Dock for passengers would be very successful. The route is too roundabout for passengers going to/from the "main target" destination (Liverpool city centre). Even considering current road congestion, an indirect rail service is never going to compete with more direct, more frequent bus services. The arrival of competing, more direct trams and buses was the main reason why passenger numbers (and services) started to decline after WW1.
Of the former station sites, only Tuebrook and Walton & Anfield can be described as fairly convenient for residential areas. And "one football match per two weeks in the season" is not going to raise enough money to make reopening worthwhile, especially when one considers the huge cost of new / reinstated stations.

As for Aintree to Bootle reopening - the main market would likely be for Ormskirk/Maghull/Aintree to or from Bootle, rather than Ford or Linacre Road - but a completely new station, better sited for current population centres might (just) have better prospects.

 

[S&CLER]

Wasn't the idea at one time to have a station on the Bootle-Aintree line near the former Girobank HQ?
At present the buses seem to me to cater adequately for traffic on this route. Any trains reinstated on it would be best terminated at Aintree, since if Ormskirk trains were diverted they would be unacceptably slower; Orrell Park is also one the of the busiest stations on the Ormskirk branch. I can't see any case for more than 4 tph from Aintree to Ormskirk.

The line wasn't de-electrified until the 1950s; I never went on it myself, though I have heard from a former booking clerk at Maghull of late-night emergency diversions of Ormskirk trains via Bootle. Unfortunately I wasn't quite old enough to go and see the annual Liverpool Overhead trains at Aintree on Grand National days, and my only trip on the Overhead was in the summer after the 1956 race meeting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wasn't the idea at one time to have a station on the Bootle-Aintree line near the former Girobank HQ?

Yes, that's correct - see the 1970s proposal map which showed the two former stations not reopened, but a single station at "Giro", which I guess would have been one side of the main road bridge on which the Girobank site used to be (attached). Though the map has a few extra quirks, such as showing Walton as "Breeze Hill" (I guess that would have involved moving the Rice Lane platforms along a bit to the existing Walton station as an interchange) and Kirkdale missing.

The old Solari displays at Liverpool Central (and probably Moorfields) had "Ormskirk via <something>" as well as "Ormskirk via Orrell Park" in readiness for it. I completely forget what <something> was.

After the closure of the Overhead Railway, the line carried Grand National specials for quite a while (I recall as a kid seeing one parked up in what are now the disused platforms) but I understand this stopped because they were getting bricked every time.

 

[S&CLER]

The Bootle-Aintree line was also used for access to the Metal Box siding for a while. I saw these freights quite often. Apparently there were problems with heavier freight locos spreading the track.