Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[OmniCity999]

good bus that one. did it have the yellow paint on it? none of the LC eclipses or Festival Travel B7TLs have had it they only had logos and fleetnumbers removed

Current management arent bothered about it.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Current management arent bothered about it.

ah, forgot about that.
At the rate these B7TLs and Eclipse one B7RLEs are being sold i wonder if any of the City fleet ones will see service with Lothian again

 

[OmniCity999]

ah, forgot about that.
At the rate these B7TLs and Eclipse one B7RLEs are being sold i wonder if any of the City fleet ones will see service with Lothian again

B7TL's are all going first, with new deckers postponed until next year. B7RLE's, at least the newer ones, are relatively economical and kind to the environment, so will be sticking around a little longer. 150-160 onwards, to stay for the time being for example.

If the new single deckers prove successful, some will be ordered for East Coast and if LCB stick around, their B7RLE's will be replaced too. The decker order is planned for next year so they can be tagged onto that.

Singles are being replaced 1 for 1 in the fleet. So 40 out, 40 in. So even then thats up to 160-170 (ish) going. Some will stick around longer for operational flexibility and to cover teething issues.

You want to keep a decent amount of single deckers in the fleet, they come in very handy for high winds or peak extras etc.

The training fleet wont be getting updated for the time being. Their all Euro 5, through the SCRT upgrade. Also the training school doesnt actively make money for the company, so it's not entirely necessary. When training new drivers, getting the feel for a large vehicle is the priority, which can be achieved with any bus. Drivers then go onto fleet familiarisation to get used to every type, which can be done on any bus with L plates, or even without if they've passed their test.

 

[Lothiangem22]

B7TL's are all going first, with new deckers postponed until next year. B7RLE's, at least the newer ones, are relatively economical and kind to the environment, so will be sticking around a little longer. 150-160 onwards, to stay for the time being for example.

If the new single deckers prove successful, some will be ordered for East Coast and if LCB stick around, their B7RLE's will be replaced too. The decker order is planned for next year so they can be tagged onto that.

Singles are being replaced 1 for 1 in the fleet. So 40 out, 40 in. So even then thats up to 160-170 (ish) going. Some will stick around longer for operational flexibility and to cover teething issues.

You want to keep a decent amount of single deckers in the fleet, they come in very handy for high winds or peak extras etc.

The training fleet wont be getting updated for the time being. Their all Euro 5, through the SCRT upgrade. Also the training school doesnt actively make money for the company, so it's not entirely necessary. When training new drivers, getting the feel for a large vehicle is the priority, which can be achieved with any bus. Drivers then go onto fleet familiarisation to get used to every type, which can be done on any bus with L plates, or even without if they've passed their test.

Do we have a date and/or confirmed route for the single decks entering service. I have been reliably informed at least one is in Seafield with more en route. The rumour is service 30 and start of September but it would be good to have more information on this

 

[OmniCity999]

Do we have a date and/or confirmed route for the single decks entering service. I have been reliably informed at least one is in Seafield with more en route. The rumour is service 30 and start of September but it would be good to have more information on this

i cant disclose too much im afraid. I'm not even allowed to confirm what they are.

 

[Lothiangem22]

i cant disclose too much im afraid. I'm not even allowed to confirm what they are.

totally understand! Thanks

 

[ScotRail158725]

B7TL's are all going first, with new deckers postponed until next year. B7RLE's, at least the newer ones, are relatively economical and kind to the environment, so will be sticking around a little longer. 150-160 onwards, to stay for the time being for example.

If the new single deckers prove successful, some will be ordered for East Coast and if LCB stick around, their B7RLE's will be replaced too. The decker order is planned for next year so they can be tagged onto that.

Singles are being replaced 1 for 1 in the fleet. So 40 out, 40 in. So even then thats up to 160-170 (ish) going. Some will stick around longer for operational flexibility and to cover teething issues.

You want to keep a decent amount of single deckers in the fleet, they come in very handy for high winds or peak extras etc.

The training fleet wont be getting updated for the time being. Their all Euro 5, through the SCRT upgrade. Also the training school doesnt actively make money for the company, so it's not entirely necessary. When training new drivers, getting the feel for a large vehicle is the priority, which can be achieved with any bus. Drivers then go onto fleet familiarisation to get used to every type, which can be done on any bus with L plates, or even without if they've passed their test.

Sad to see the B7TLs all go but it will be good to see some new deckers in the coming time

 

[CN04NRJ]

good bus that one. did it have the yellow paint on it? none of the LC eclipses or Festival Travel B7TLs have had it they only had logos and fleetnumbers removed

No, it was just in plain debranded condition. Shame to see them go, does anyone know how many are left now?

 

[CN04NRJ]

Do we have a date and/or confirmed route for the single decks entering service. I have been reliably informed at least one is in Seafield with more en route. The rumour is service 30 and start of September but it would be good to have more information on this

I'd assume/hope the 30/36/38 with 34 buses needed for those.

Don't know when the 20/63 is going over as there's no duty changes for the first week of September so theoretically one could appear on one of those - that would be a sight!

 

[Lothiangem22]

I'd assume/hope the 30/36/38 with 34 buses needed for those.

Don't know when the 20/63 is going over as there's no duty changes for the first week of September so theoretically one could appear on one of those - that would be a sight!

I think some must be for the service 30, though unsure about 36/38. I’d imagine longstone would still be left with some hybrids post COVID, though will some of longstones current hybrids go to central for 1/12/24 and eventually marine for 42/45/48?

 

[CN04NRJ]

I think some must be for the service 30, though unsure about 36/38. I’d imagine longstone would still be left with some hybrids post COVID, though will some of longstones current hybrids go to central for 1/12/24 and eventually marine for 42/45/48?

21 buses currently required for the 30, 7 for the 38 M-F and 6 for the 36 so say if 30 of the 40 new buses are for Longstone that'll leave a few spare to stray onto other routes.

Currently 40 7900s at Longstone so depends how many end up there I guess.

 

[scosutsut]

B7TL's are all going first, with new deckers postponed until next year. B7RLE's, at least the newer ones, are relatively economical and kind to the environment, so will be sticking around a little longer. 150-160 onwards, to stay for the time being for example.

If the new single deckers prove successful, some will be ordered for East Coast and if LCB stick around, their B7RLE's will be replaced too. The decker order is planned for next year so they can be tagged onto that.

Singles are being replaced 1 for 1 in the fleet. So 40 out, 40 in. So even then thats up to 160-170 (ish) going. Some will stick around longer for operational flexibility and to cover teething issues.

You want to keep a decent amount of single deckers in the fleet, they come in very handy for high winds or peak extras etc.

The training fleet wont be getting updated for the time being. Their all Euro 5, through the SCRT upgrade. Also the training school doesnt actively make money for the company, so it's not entirely necessary. When training new drivers, getting the feel for a large vehicle is the priority, which can be achieved with any bus. Drivers then go onto fleet familiarisation to get used to every type, which can be done on any bus with L plates, or even without if they've passed their test.

So to take from that the numbers of deckers will drop overall for a time and the numbers of singles will be higher? Further singles then becoming free once the contracts go over to First?

 

[ScotRail158725]

No, it was just in plain debranded condition. Shame to see them go, does anyone know how many are left now?

definitely, those B7TLs were definately the best in the fleet. would assume OmniCity 999 would know whats still to go. i know 763 is still branded at Seafield with a missing panel or two but other than that they seem to be going thick and fast

 

[route101]

How long are the ECB B7TLS going to be in service for?

 

[OmniCity999]

How long are the ECB B7TLS going to be in service for?

How long is a piece of string? As long as theres no replacement unfortunately.

Replacements were due this year for another 8 deckers. weather that part of the order has been cancelled or not?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Current management arent bothered about it.

Good as it didn't work. Independents that took those Geminis just put nail polish remover on the yellow stripe and it came off quite easily.

 

[cnjb8]

Good as it didn't work. Independents that took those Geminis just put nail polish remover on the yellow stripe and it came off quite easily.

Or just kept on using them like that. In Nottingham, Skills Tridents and Littles Gemini are still in that livery with the yellow stripe.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Good as it didn't work. Independents that took those Geminis just put nail polish remover on the yellow stripe and it came off quite easily.

Aye at least 3 companies just painted madder over the yellow on the Geminis and M-Line back when the Trident had yellow tape? they just took it right off

 

[OmniCity999]

Aye at least 3 companies just painted madder over the yellow on the Geminis and M-Line back when the Trident had yellow tape? they just took it right off

it was water based paint, there was no need to paint over it, people just washed it off

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Has the 45 been reinstated into service. If so I understand it is only operating 4 times Mon-Fri a day and how long is the frequency.

 

[alexf380]

According to Lothian's website it's 4 journeys total, leaving currie at 07:33 and 08:03, and leaving Lauriston Place at 15:20 and 15:50.

 

[Auld reekie]

Has the 45 been reinstated into service. If so I understand it is only operating 4 times Mon-Fri a day and how long is the frequency.

Once HW and QMU start up in September hopefully it will resume it’s normal service.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Was having speculative look through the finlaysmith site and noticed there's trackers active for 66-89 and 91-95.

Are these for the new ones or just old/test ones left on for some reason?

Going back to this I'm assuming it's showing 66 onwards as ECB's B8RLEs go up to 10065 - but obviously if they had 'standard' fleet numbers they'd be 51-65.

 

[scosutsut]

Going back to this I'm assuming it's showing 66 onwards as ECB's B8RLEs go up to 10065 - but obviously if they had 'standard' fleet numbers they'd be 51-65.

Interesting observation. Thinking on that note they did the opposite with the subsequent ECB B5TL/Gemini 3 order as they are 20001-7 which doesn't correspond with a space in the main fleet numbering system not that would present an insurmountable problem, obviously.

I'm sure it's been said that its the fuel pump at Musselburgh that dictates the 5 digits right? You wonder if they could have not just prefixed the main fleet numbers with the relevant number of 0s to satisfy it? Eg 10065 would just be 65 and would be input as 00065? I assume main fleet can't refuel at Musselburgh as a result?

 

[OmniCity999]

Interesting observation. Thinking on that note they did the opposite with the subsequent ECB B5TL/Gemini 3 order as they are 20001-7 which doesn't correspond with a space in the main fleet numbering system not that would present an insurmountable problem, obviously.

I'm sure it's been said that its the fuel pump at Musselburgh that dictates the 5 digits right? You wonder if they could have not just prefixed the main fleet numbers with the relevant number of 0s to satisfy it? Eg 10065 would just be 65 and would be input as 00065? I assume main fleet can't refuel at Musselburgh as a result?

Originally it was the fuel pump but that was soon changed out of the first numbering system.

The numbering was kept seperate from the main fleet due to an investigation into Lothians purchase of First operations by the competition people. Dont know the actual name or government department but I gather it was rather serious.

The idea was to distance the East Coast fleet and operation from the Lothian fleet. Despite the operation being registered at Annandale Street.

I reckon some money exchanged hands there. A new operation, using entirely ex Lothian fleet, support vehicles, support network, integrated ticketing, some Lothian drivers etc. It cant have looked good.

This was all back when the operation started, mind.

 

[Lothiangem22]

seems there’s no need for more single decks anymore... even with there little spare against PVR in longstone, hybrid 22 has made it onto the 44 today!

 

[CN04NRJ]

seems there’s no need for more single decks anymore... even with there little spare against PVR in longstone, hybrid 22 has made it onto the 44 today!

29 is also on the 35.

Looking at bustimes.org 828 started on the 44 but didn't make it out of the garage, 22 went onto it and 828 left on the 0751 36 from the Gyle.

Guess 22 ended up on there as it was probably checked and ready to go if 828 had an issue, still, an interesting working!

Better a single deck than no bus at all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2020 ==

Originally it was the fuel pump but that was soon changed out of the first numbering system.

The numbering was kept seperate from the main fleet due to an investigation into Lothians purchase of First operations by the competition people. Dont know the actual name or government department but I gather it was rather serious.

The idea was to distance the East Coast fleet and operation from the Lothian fleet. Despite the operation being registered at Annandale Street.

I reckon some money exchanged hands there. A new operation, using entirely ex Lothian fleet, support vehicles, support network, integrated ticketing, some Lothian drivers etc. It cant have looked good.

This was all back when the operation started, mind.

They did a similar investigation into some of Stagecoach's purchases in recent years - two I know of was Islwyn Borough Transport as it gave them a near monopoly of the area and Preston Bus.

Obviously they were forced to sell Preston but were ultimately cleared with IBT.

In both cases the respective companies retained their identity (albeit with Stagecoach fleet numbers) until cleared and then IBT was assimilated with Stagecoach. I was surprised that was cleared as they'd also purchased two of their main local rivals at the time (Glyn Williams and a second buyout of Phil Anslow).

 

[OmniCity999]

At least 1 of the ex Lothian Country, ex East Coast, ex Arrivas has turned up at Ensign bus. Theres a photo on one of the Facebook groups.

When the ex Arrivas went to Lothian Country, they lost their roof air con but kept the side pods, this can be seen in the image. This is the second time this such vehicle has been through Ensign.

Also at least 6 single deck buses have been sold to Horsburghs. A move which sees them veering away from lightweight single deckers, i know they have 1 eclipse but this is their first mass move towards heavy singles.

Fleet numbers to follow.

 

[CN04NRJ]

At least 1 of the ex Lothian Country, ex East Coast, ex Arrivas has turned up at Ensign bus. Theres a photo on one of the Facebook groups.

When the ex Arrivas went to Lothian Country, they lost their roof air con but kept the side pods, this can be seen in the image. This is the second time this such vehicle has been through Ensign.

Also at least 6 single deck buses have been sold to Horsburghs. A move which sees them veering away from lightweight single deckers, i know they have 1 eclipse but this is their first mass move towards heavy singles.

Fleet numbers to follow.

Alot of their elderly Solos fleet are looking quite tired now, but as you said, an interesting move towards heavyweight buses for them.

Can imagine the buses having full assault screens will be useful for them during these times as well. Are they some of the 136+ batch they've bought?

 

[cnjb8]

Originally it was the fuel pump but that was soon changed out of the first numbering system.

The numbering was kept seperate from the main fleet due to an investigation into Lothians purchase of First operations by the competition people. Dont know the actual name or government department but I gather it was rather serious.

The idea was to distance the East Coast fleet and operation from the Lothian fleet. Despite the operation being registered at Annandale Street.

I reckon some money exchanged hands there. A new operation, using entirely ex Lothian fleet, support vehicles, support network, integrated ticketing, some Lothian drivers etc. It cant have looked good.

This was all back when the operation started, mind.

Was it supposed to be First withdrawing from there and Lothian providing the replacement bus services, with no connection in between?