Why are people still so fearful of the SARS-CoV-2 virus?

[philosopher]

I'd say everyone wants to get back to normal, however the way the world has reacted to all this means the normal we knew in January isn't coming back.

Trends already existing in society have been accentuated and changes brought forward. Working from home. Shopping online. Avoiding city centre shops. Scrapping older aircraft. Flying and cruising less. Maybe a rethink on so many going away to universities far from home to do expensive courses of 3 years for qualifications they don't really need for work. We can all think of examples.

As far as this forum is concerned, giving up on much public rail and bus transport. Restoring Beeching cuts may become retaining what Beeching left!

Some of these changes will prove to be beneficial, but that remains to be seen in 10-20 years time.

Spanish flu post WW1 was probably more deadly, but may prove to have had far less economic effect.

The people didn't publicise it: that started from mixed government actions causing confusion and panic across the globe.

At the start of this I was quite fearful of the virus. However it is now the potential long term changes that you have mentioned that worries me more now.

 

[Bayum]

Considering I’m in one of the groups that the virus has been shown to be particularly brutal to, I feel as if I’m well within my rights to be fearful of it still. Simple bouts of uncomplicated tonsillitis and pneumonia have kicked off a multitude of things in my body in the past, so I’m not really looking to throw myself out there in public just yet. Indeed, there are numerous areas around Leeds where cases have trebled - whether that is because of increasing infection within the city, or due to travel to and from many of the cities and areas that surround Leeds I don’t know, but I’m happy to keep out of everyone’s way to reduce the risk to myself.

 

[LAX54]

Stupidity accounts for a lot of it.

Vast swathes of the UK population simply lack the mental faculties to think critically or process conflicting information. Hence they swallow the easily digestible sound bites put out by this ridiculous government, and simply go along with whatever they’re told, as part of a hive mind.

The other (more worrying) aspect is fear. People are often irrationally terrified of health matters. The government’s messaging (particularly in the early stages) played on this. This is why even intelligent people have become completely irrational in relation to this virus.

Fear is something that has been deployed as a method of control again and again throughout history, often by unsavoury political groups and governments. We are now receiving an excellent lesson in how effective it still is, even more so in the age of social media.

Fear been spread by the Media, Facebook and Twitter, if it's written down, it must be true, also they say that the Government would not lie to anyone, maybe if they gave a % figure against the populatuion, that may ease the fears ? and also do not list those that just have the infection, but are not seriously ill

 

[bramling]

the government Isnt being driven by science. its being driven by a hysterical media. They should listen to people outside the Westminster bubble, not the twitter loonies.

They are scared of 'boris killed my granny' headlines.

Yet they don’t seem to be bothered about “Boris wasted a year of my life” headlines. There’s an increasing number of people becoming increasingly angry about that.

 

[MattA7]

I just read a review for a restaurant in Glasgow where a woman has given it one star because the customers weren’t wearing face masks and she claimed she felt so unsafe in the restaurant Because of this she had a panic attack and the staff had to call the paramedics.

What was she expecting in a establishment where people are eating and drinking. What hope do we have if returning to normality with idiots like that going around.okay she was only one individual but they are probably plenty more like her

 

[AM9]

This argument gets made so often that i get the impression that some people think that a large proportion of the population fall into this category.

If everybody ignored the recommendations to limit the spread of infections, (in this case by the simple expedient of wearing a face covering), the increase in transmission may well involve a large propportion of the populations. I don't know the absolute answer to just how much that is so and by you words ("I get the impression etc. ...") nor do you. The difference is that most are prepared to make an effort for the benefit of everybody, and of course there are those who despise them for it. They seem to have a real problem on their hands.

 

[Richard Scott]

If everybody ignored the recommendations to limit the spread of infections, (in this case by the simple expedient of wearing a face covering), the increase in transmission may well involve a large propportion of the populations. I don't know the absolute answer to just how much that is so and by you words ("I get the impression etc. ...") nor do you. The difference is that most are prepared to make an effort for the benefit of everybody, and of course there are those who despise them for it. They seem to have a real problem on their hands.

To be honest there aren't many people following them, apart from face masks (which a number of us dispute do anything) there is minimal social distancing, occasional use of hand sanitisers and that's about it. I don't think infections will rise dramatically as looks like viral loadings are reducing, more people have had it than thought and some have natural immunity meaning that it's unlikely to rise rapidly. In countries with current large increases they had very few infections in the first place so really are having their first phase.

 

[AM9]

To be honest there aren't many people following them, apart from face masks (which a number of us dispute do anything) there is minimal social distancing, occasional use of hand sanitisers and that's about it. I don't think infections will rise dramatically as looks like viral loadings are reducing, more people have had it than thought and some have natural immunity meaning that it's unlikely to rise rapidly. In countries with current large increases they had very few infections in the first place so really are having their first phase.

So far, the second wave doesn't look good. Maybe the increased quarantine restrictions on arrivals from certain countries will open a few eyes, - apart from with those who don't want to see.

 

[NorthOxonian]

So far, the second wave doesn't look good. Maybe the increased quarantine restrictions on arrivals from certain countries will open a few eyes, - apart from with those who don't want to see.

Quite - but it seems like several of our restrictions don't make a jot of difference. Just look at Spain - a country who mandated masks far more than we did - yet still heavily affected.

I think that's what does scare me about the virus - not the risk of getting it but the fact it's very much unpredictable and a force of nature. Controlling it seems only possible at extreme cost, but measures like masks seem like trying to command the tides with a stick.

 

[yorkie]

In 3 months, it has killed >40,000 people....

But 'flu can kill similar numbers and that's with a vaccine! Yes Covid19 can be more severe than 'flu, but for the vast majority of people the threat to our health is minimal compared to the threat to our livelihoods and mental well-being.

Some people, despite being young and no comorbidities, are left with long term effects, which may or may not be permanent.

This applies to 'flu too; young people are extremely likely to have anything other than mild effects. There will always be some outliers. Hospitalisations are at very low levels now.

Anyone who is not fearful, who want to catch it and "get on with their lives", are perfectly welcome to spend >15 minutes in a covid ward...

I am not fearful; I am going to get on with my life, regardless of what you think.

Aaprt from not protecting their old folks in care homes the Swedes may have been doing it right.

I agree with this point.

So far, the second wave doesn't look good....

What does this mean? How do you define a "second wave" and what do you mean by "doesn't look good"? Also, are you saying that it is or isn't a seasonal disease?

Sorry for the questions but I'm just trying to make sense of what it is you are saying/predicting.

 

[talldave]

Sadly, masks have given people a false sense of security and distancing has evaporated. Not wearing a mask seems to subliminally trigger distancing and is hence the safer option.

 

[brad465]

Maybe but I think that when furlough ends and schools are back then the vocal minority will become less vocal, and certainly less listened to.

Yes I do think this, along with the desire for as close to normal a Christmas as possible and the dark dankness of Winter, will have big impacts. Since Spring lockdown the weather and furlough payments have helped "staying power" for many, but longer nights, colder weather and the inevitable economic impacts biting will start "screaming".

 

[yorkie]

Sadly, masks have given people a false sense of security and distancing has evaporated. Not wearing a mask seems to subliminally trigger distancing and is hence the safer option.

The whole point of wearing masks is where social distancing isn't possible, so this is exactly in line with what I would expect. It would be ludicrous to expect people to wear masks AND engage in social distancing.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...wers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-on-covid-19-and-masks

for areas of widespread transmission, with limited capacity for implementing control measures and especially in settings where physical distancing of at least 1 metre is not possible – such as on public transport, in shops or in other confined or crowded environments – WHO advises governments to encourage the general public to use non-medical fabric masks.

As far as I'm concerned, in any given setting, we either practise social distancing or we wear masks: it should not, and can not be expected to, be both.

That said any detailed discussion of masks needs to go in the face covering thread

....Controlling it seems only possible at extreme cost....

Those who are keen to implement draconian restrictions never seem to consider those costs properly; I wonder why that is? I accept some measures are necessary, of course, but I do not believe it is right that some risks and costs are ignored, in the relentless pursuit of ever more draconian restrictions.

 

[Richard Scott]

So far, the second wave doesn't look good. Maybe the increased quarantine restrictions on arrivals from certain countries will open a few eyes, - apart from with those who don't want to see.

What second wave?

 

[farleigh]

Considering I’m in one of the groups that the virus has been shown to be particularly brutal to, I feel as if I’m well within my rights to be fearful of it still. Simple bouts of uncomplicated tonsillitis and pneumonia have kicked off a multitude of things in my body in the past, so I’m not really looking to throw myself out there in public just yet. Indeed, there are numerous areas around Leeds where cases have trebled - whether that is because of increasing infection within the city, or due to travel to and from many of the cities and areas that surround Leeds I don’t know, but I’m happy to keep out of everyone’s way to reduce the risk to myself.

Which is fine - and I do sympathise with your predicament. However, you cannot expect others to put their lives on hold.

I am lucky - I am out doing sport, socialising and working. I hope that you will be able to as well soon.

 

[yorkie]

What second wave?

If it's a seasonal virus (this is, as far as I am aware, not yet certain; WHO are even actively denying it; see below) then it would - just like 'flu - see a resurgence in the winter months of each year; this could be deemed a "wave" when viewed on a graph, but there is no formal definition of the term.

Covid 19 – Epidemic ‘Waves’ | The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

www.cebm.net

...We do not know for certain whether COVID will recur in phases, or sporadic outbreaks or disappear altogether.

Conclusion

Making absolute statements of certainty about ‘ second waves’ is unwise, given the current substantial uncertainties and novelty of the evidence...

The WHO are currently denying that Covid-19 is a seasonal virus, though it does not appear to be certain either way, yet:

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

GENEVA (Reuters) - A World Health Organization official on Tuesday described the COVID-19 pandemic as “one big wave” and warned against complacency in the northern hemisphere summer since the infection does not share influenza’s tendency to follow seasons.

According to this BBC article, when someone uses the term "second wave" they are unlikely to be an expert:

Coronavirus: What's the evidence Europe is having a 'second wave'?

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has talked of a "second wave" of coronavirus. But is the phrase misleading?

www.bbc.co.uk

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has warned there are signs of a "second wave" of coronavirus cases in Europe....

...But the truth is many experts try to avoid the phrase altogether.

 

[adamskiodp]

Went onto Twitter this morning and looked at the replies to Starmer's tweet about getting schools back.

People are going up in arms about it claiming that it is extremely unsafe, the virus will spread...


People's stupidity and COVID centric thinking is beginning to drive me up the wall. It's as if people are so thick that they just take what the government tell them without looking into it further. They're honestly like sheep.

I think a big part of the problem is conflicting information.

If schools are safe, why were they closed for so long in the first place?

My two teenage children have been told that they will not be permitted to wear a mask in school and will not be social distancing in the classroom. If this is safe , then why must over 11’s wear a mask in all other public places?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just read a review for a restaurant in Glasgow where a woman has given it one star because the customers weren’t wearing face masks and she claimed she felt so unsafe in the restaurant Because of this she had a panic attack and the staff had to call the paramedics.

What was she expecting in a establishment where people are eating and drinking. What hope do we have if returning to normality with idiots like that going around.okay she was only one individual but they are probably plenty more like her

For all I'm in favour of masks, how are you meant to eat with one on!?

 

[DelayRepay]

The problem seems to be, if you follow social media, people are polarised. There seem to be one group that won't leave their house due to fear, and another group who strongly object to any kind of measures including masks, queues and any attempt to encourage distancing.

The reality, probably, is that most people are like me. I'm trying to live as normal a life as possible, I go out to non-essential shops, pubs and so on, but I also try to take sensible precautions like maintaining distancing so far as practical (without jumping into the road to avoid someone coming the other way!), wearing a face covering when the law says I should, frequent use of hand sanitizer when out and about and so on. I don't worry too much about going into peoples houses or having visitors in my house, but where the weather allows I prefer to meet outdoors.

Most people I know are like me - they are doing their best to get on with things but taking sensible, measured precautions. Really, the only people I know in real life who are taking more extreme measures are those who have conditions that make them particularly vulnerable, which is perfectly sensible I think.

 

[Yew]

For all I'm in favour of masks, how are you meant to eat with one on!?

Soup?

 

[island]

the government Isnt being driven by science. its being driven by a hysterical media. They should listen to people outside the Westminster bubble, not the twitter loonies.

They are scared of 'boris killed my granny' headlines.

They are governing by opinion poll, not the media, and not science.

 

[island]

As for me, I am not afraid of the virus. I am almost certain I had it in February and I believe I am likely to be immune. I am trying to find an opportunity to take an antibody test which will reassure me.

What I am afraid of is governments using it as an excuse to curtail civil liberties, businesses failing because they are unsustainable under the current circumstances, and the view that nothing else matters besides preventing COVID19 from spreading and killing people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for me, I am not afraid of the virus. I am almost certain I had it in February and I believe I am likely to be immune. I am trying to find an opportunity to take an antibody test which will reassure me.

If you don't mind paying for one there are plenty of opportunities.

 

[Killingworth]

In mid April I wrote to a friend about the long term fears I had for public transport. I referred to totally empty buses and long trains with only one or two passengers at best.

By then we were starting to get a feel for how bad COVID was getting, but there were signs that medically it was being brought down to levels that should be manageable in most areas. I predicted that the total number of deaths in the UK in 2020 were likely to be in the range of 4-40% higher than in a normal year, depending on whether we were getting it under control or not. I opined that 4% would probably be nearer the final mark. It's still far too early to tell but the level of fear engendered in parts of the population has been commensurate with 40 and not 4%.

In many areas we are now seeing lower death levels than in average years, but many non COVID medical conditions are getting worse and may be making those concerned more vulnerable if they do get it! The numbers suffering from depression are said to have increased, and those confined to home have put on weight. On the other side a lot more have been getting outdoors into the fresh air, walking, running, cycling and active pursuits - including dumping tons and tons of litter on beaches, the National Parks, countryside, city streets and roadsides - basically anywhere and everywhere!

Meanwhile areas of the economy are in dire straights and education is in meltdown. Much attention is given to air travel and foreign holidays but they are icing on our cake. We've lost sense of proportion and commonsense. The Risk Assessment culture has made managers afraid of being sued for not taking the strictest precautions everywhere at all times. Meanwhile those who feel too strictly restricted will lose respect for all regulations.

I didn't write to my friend to say that I estimate my own life expectancy at 3-30 years. 3 means I should have survived COVID and am back into the normal lottery of old age. I have friends in the paranoid (in my view) isolationist camp. I know some who are more fatalistic, in the "if the bullet's meant for me I'll get it, lets enjoy life" frame of mind. I'm taking reasonable precautions and hope to make it through a few more years.

However we have to manage this a great deal better. It is causing far more damage to far more people's economic life than to their immediate health, but it will reduce ultimate life expectancy for very many if we can't.

 

[Howardh]

Yes, it's nasty and horrible and I don't want it; and as an above poster alludes to - we may have had it but never knew - but if it isn't killing people in anything like the large numbers it was in March/April; then shouldn't covid be treated just like any other virus that may cause the death of the weakest? As said many a time, even with a vaccine flu kills people, but we're not in lockdown due to flu.

However, with flu, if you have had a dose then you can stull suffer the next time..and the next...so if that's the same with covid and you don't become immune (and there's no vaccine/cure) does that move the goalposts?

 

[Yew]

Yes, it's nasty and horrible and I don't want it; and as an above poster alludes to - we may have had it but never knew - but if it isn't killing people in anything like the large numbers it was in March/April; then shouldn't covid be treated just like any other virus that may cause the death of the weakest? As said many a time, even with a vaccine flu kills people, but we're not in lockdown due to flu.

However, with flu, if you have had a dose then you can stull suffer the next time..and the next...so if that's the same with covid and you don't become immune (and there's no vaccine/cure) does that move the goalposts?

I feel that this article is relevant to this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/summer-flu-is-now-more-deadly-than-covid

Yet few seem to have noticed, while we fret about whether reopening schools, bars and so on will cause a second wave of Covid-19, that flu is killing five times as many people in England and Wales. In the week ending 31 July, these are the Office for National Statistics tallies for cause of death (as measured by mentions on death certificates): influenza and pneumonia, 928; Covid-19, 193. This is nothing new: more people have been dying of flu than Covid-19 since the middle of June.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I feel that this article is relevant to this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/summer-flu-is-now-more-deadly-than-covid

But that disregards that we are controlling COVID through measures (which will also control flu, but not quite the same). If we were't it would be different.

 

[Ken H]

That looks to be the cumulative total!

Look at https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
find total announced deaths link. it changes every day so I cant give a linky
that will download a spreadsheet.
open the spreadsheet, and then the Fig1 all deaths tab
nice pretty graph there. Peak was 4th April.

OK that is England hospital deaths only. But its a nice indicator of the rise and fall of the virus.
and the deaths are by death date, not registration date, so better than ONS stats. Registration can be quite a while after a deaths.

 

[AdamWW]

I feel that this article is relevant to this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/summer-flu-is-now-more-deadly-than-covid

An interesting argument that flu deaths should be reduced by social distancing as much as Covid-19.

Let down I think by the assumption that every death linked to pneumonia must have been the result of flu.

 

[Ken H]

But that disregards that we are controlling COVID through measures (which will also control flu, but not quite the same). If we were't it would be different.

any evidence of that? or has it just faded away like viruses do?