Why are people still so fearful of the SARS-CoV-2 virus?

[Scotrail12]

Went onto Twitter this morning and looked at the replies to Starmer's tweet about getting schools back.

People are going up in arms about it claiming that it is extremely unsafe, the virus will spread...

Have these folks done any research at all? And as for any teachers complaining, thankfully supermarket workers did not take the same attitude otherwise we'd have all starved!

People's stupidity and COVID centric thinking is beginning to drive me up the wall. It's as if people are so thick that they just take what the government tell them without looking into it further. They're honestly like sheep.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I think some of people's fear is because it's still quite a new threat. It's difficult to get our heads around the risk, since we don't really have a point of reference (there's flu which is a similar order of magnitude, but make that comparison and you're "downplaying the virus"). And it doesn't help that because of exponential growth/decay, the virus can very quickly flare up or die down, meaning it's quite unpredictable. So it's understandable that people struggle to get their heads around it all - I sometimes do and my degree is in statistics.

As to teachers complaining, I would suspect there's a difference between what the vocal minority (and the unions) think, and what the majority of ordinary teachers on the ground think.

 

[43066]

Stupidity accounts for a lot of it.

Vast swathes of the UK population simply lack the mental faculties to think critically or process conflicting information. Hence they swallow the easily digestible sound bites put out by this ridiculous government, and simply go along with whatever they’re told, as part of a hive mind.

The other (more worrying) aspect is fear. People are often irrationally terrified of health matters. The government’s messaging (particularly in the early stages) played on this. This is why even intelligent people have become completely irrational in relation to this virus.

Fear is something that has been deployed as a method of control again and again throughout history, often by unsavoury political groups and governments. We are now receiving an excellent lesson in how effective it still is, even more so in the age of social media.

 

[scotrail158713]

The media don’t help either. Below is my post from Thursday from the media coverage thread.

I’ve just noticed the BBC are continuing with misleading headlines with a recent one on Scottish schools

Coronavirus: School pupils linked to Glasgow virus cluster

Pupils at a Glasgow secondary school are among eight people to have tested positive in a cluster in the city.

www.bbc.co.uk

Pupils at a Glasgow secondary school are among eight people to have tested positive in a coronavirus cluster in the city.
NHS officials said the pupils at Bannerman High School in Baillieston all tested positive before the school returned on Wednesday morning.
They are all currently self-isolating at home, and none have actually attended school.
All eight of the cases are said to be only experiencing mild symptoms.
NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde (NHSGGC) said test and protect staff had been contacting anyone else who may be affected by the cluster.
They were said to be working closely with the school and a number of other local businesses to trace any close contacts of the eight confirmed cases.
'No added risk'
But the health board said there was "no added risk" to teachers or pupils who were returning to school.
It said no further details of the cluster would be made public for patient confidentiality reasons.
Dr Linda de Caestecker, the director of public health at NHSGGC, said the cluster was being "thoroughly investigated and managed".
She said advice had been given to the school and other places the eight cases had visited.
Dr de Caestecker added: "Anyone affected will be contacted through the Test and Protect service.
"We want to reassure the wider community and especially pupils and teachers returning to school that there is no added risk due to this cluster.
"We also want to remind people to stay off school or work and get tested if they experience any symptoms.”

The headline implies that schools reopening has led to an increase in cases in Glasgow, however also contains a section (copied
below) which explains what really happened - school re-openings had nothing to do with it.

the pupils at Bannerman High School in Baillieston all tested positive before the school returned on Wednesday morning.
They are all currently self-isolating at home, and none have actually attended school.

 

[Smidster]

The human race is very bad when it comes to perception - Ask the public to estimate a number (say the proportion of immigrants in their community, numbers of murders or indeed Covid mortality) they will get it horribly wrong.

It is no surprise that when for 6 months all the public have heard is about Covid that they are afraid of it. And it isn't all that irrational - let's not forget we have been ordered to stay at home for months on end which is hardly a usual state of affairs.

It is also natural to worry about your family and friends - nobody wants their relatives to die even if the perceived risk is not proportional to reality

What I found more concerning today was the poll that said a majority of people wanted many restrictions (like home schooling or banning events) to be in place until there is a vaccine. If we want a society worth coming back to then at some point we have to be willing to take a few risks.

 

[PHILIPE]

The human race is very bad when it comes to perception - Ask the public to estimate a number (say the proportion of immigrants in their community, numbers of murders or indeed Covid mortality) they will get it horribly wrong.

It is no surprise that when for 6 months all the public have heard is about Covid that they are afraid of it. And it isn't all that irrational - let's not forget we have been ordered to stay at home for months on end which is hardly a usual state of affairs.

It is also natural to worry about your family and friends - nobody wants their relatives to die even if the perceived risk is not proportional to reality

What I found more concerning today was the poll that said a majority of people wanted many restrictions (like home schooling or banning events) to be in place until there is a vaccine. If we want a society worth coming back to then at some point we have to be willing to take a few risks.

And if a vaccine is never found ? They will have very sad life for the rest of their days.

 

[DB]

majority of people wanted many restrictions (like home schooling or banning events) to be in place until there is a vaccine.

I find this very hard to believe - hardly anyone I've spoken to wants this. Those who shout loudest on social media (and who the government seems to listen to) may mostly want it, but I really don't think they are representative of the general population.

 

[PaulMc7]

Seen a tweet that made me laugh the other day. A woman won't let her kid use public transport as the bus the kid would use goes by a school that's had a covid case even though it was nothing to do with the school. The kid would also use the bus at the completely opposite end of the route which is well over an hour away from the school that had the case

The person must have deleted the tweet as I now can't find it

 

[eastwestdivide]

I don't know about "people", but this person (male, in my 50s), is fearful of it because a) I don't want to die from it; b) I don't want to suffer from it (some people are getting long-term health problems from it); c) I don't want to get it and have to quarantine; d) I don't want to spread it to other people, whatever their level of risk.

According to Age UK at https://www.ageuk.org.uk/discover/2020/06/coronavirus-risk-for-older-people-updated/

Although we don’t know exactly how many people have had coronavirus, the Office for National Statistics study gives estimates that suggest 7% of people in England (around 3.8 million) have had coronavirus during the epidemic. This in turn suggests that the overall IFR [Infection Fatality Ratio] is about 1%, so about 1 person in every 100 who catch it will die from it. However, the information we have so far points to the IFR being higher for older people than younger people

(my italics)

which is a non-trivial risk to my mind, and something like 10 times that of seasonal flu - and for seasonal flu, it's less prevalent and there's a vaccine.

But a certain level of fear is a good thing - it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about.

So there's a partial, personal answer.

 

[43066]

But a certain level of fear is a good thing - it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about.

You do realise wearing a face covering will do nothing to prevent you from contracting it, right?

 

[DB]

This in turn suggests that the overall IFR [Infection Fatality Ratio] is about 1%, so about 1 person in every 100 who catch it will die from it. However, the information we have so far points to the IFR being higher for older people than younger people

That really doesn't emphasis the real situation sufficiently. All breakdowns of stats show that those particular at risk have other serious health conditions. The risk to anyone under 60 with no relevant health conditions is minimal, and 60-80 is not huge either - it's only over 80 where the risk increases considerably, and even then the deaths are predominantly of people with existing conditions.

 

[MikeWM]

That really doesn't emphasis the real situation sufficiently.

Not least because I'm very surprised (and disappointed) to see anyone 'official' still claiming that the IFR is around 1% - I thought pretty much everyone agreed now that it was below 0.5%, and the best estimates appear to be between 0.1 and 0.2%.

 

[Bantamzen]

But a certain level of fear is a good thing - it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about.

Sorry but I could not agree less. Fear is driving some really irrational behaviour, fuelling some truly bizarre ideas for "protecting" us, and is seriously undermining the mental health of the entire globe. Fear is the tool of the dictatorship.

 

[AM9]

You do realise wearing a face covering will do nothing to prevent you from contracting it, right?

It would be more sensible if you read all of that post. The fourth reason for being fearful of COVID-19 was: "d) I don't want to spread it to other people, whatever their level of risk." You see, it's not all about 'self' with everybody. It goes on: " it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about." Rather that make all sorts of justification why they don't need to wear a face covering, the poster just get's on with it as part of their respect for others.

 

[Ken H]

That really doesn't emphasis the real situation sufficiently. All breakdowns of stats show that those particular at risk have other serious health conditions. The risk to anyone under 60 with no relevant health conditions is minimal, and 60-80 is not huge either - it's only over 80 where the risk increases considerably, and even then the deaths are predominantly of people with existing conditions.

how many people over 80 dont have health conditions? There are fit 80 yr olds who are probably at low risk

I would say the best defence against infection is
1. Keep clean, especially wash hands with soap and water regularly
2. Keep fit, by doing exercise, healthy diet, keeping hydrated. Dont be overweight.
3. get out in the fresh air and sunlight (sunlight to get vitamin D)
4. keep your mind active. Sitting on the sofa all day watching Homes Under the Attic Hammer Cash. wont do that.

 

[Ken H]

It would be more sensible if you read all of that post. The fourth reason for being fearful of COVID-19 was: "d) I don't want to spread it to other people, whatever their level of risk." You see, it's not all about 'self' with everybody. It goes on: " it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about." Rather that make all sorts of justification why they don't need to wear a face covering, the poster just get's on with it as part of their respect for others.

But outdoors? driving your car?

I can sort of see the point in confined places, but never outdoors.

And please dont step in the road to social distance without looking.....

 

[DB]

I thought pretty much everyone agreed now that it was below 0.5%, and the best estimates appear to be between 0.1 and 0.2%.

Which is probably in the range of a bad flu year!

 

[43066]

It would be more sensible if you read all of that post. The fourth reason for being fearful of COVID-19 was: "d) I don't want to spread it to other people, whatever their level of risk." You see, it's not all about 'self' with everybody. It goes on: " it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about." Rather that make all sorts of justification why they don't need to wear a face covering, the poster just get's on with it as part of their respect for others.

Fear is a different feeling to guilt. I don’t wear a mask. Does that make me less respectful of others?

Many maskivists (not necessarily anyone posting on this thread) clearly lack the mental faculties to understand even the specious, sound bite “reasoning” underpinning why they are being asked to wear masks in the first place, hence wearing improperly, wearing the wrong type etc., so it’s not an unreasonable question, in the circumstances.

 

[Bantamzen]

It would be more sensible if you read all of that post. The fourth reason for being fearful of COVID-19 was: "d) I don't want to spread it to other people, whatever their level of risk." You see, it's not all about 'self' with everybody. It goes on: " it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about." Rather that make all sorts of justification why they don't need to wear a face covering, the poster just get's on with it as part of their respect for others.

For as long as we all have been breathing we have been potentially spreading disease to other people that may put them at risk. Literally every minute we spend time with other people, we might be putting them at risk. So what's different about this particular virus? Why do we suddenly have to walk around with masks and treat everyone else like am unacceptable risk factor? Its time we started accepting that we won't eliminate the virus by hiding behind the sofa.

 

[Ken H]

The human race is very bad when it comes to perception - Ask the public to estimate a number (say the proportion of immigrants in their community, numbers of murders or indeed Covid mortality) they will get it horribly wrong.

It is no surprise that when for 6 months all the public have heard is about Covid that they are afraid of it. And it isn't all that irrational - let's not forget we have been ordered to stay at home for months on end which is hardly a usual state of affairs.

It is also natural to worry about your family and friends - nobody wants their relatives to die even if the perceived risk is not proportional to reality

What I found more concerning today was the poll that said a majority of people wanted many restrictions (like home schooling or banning events) to be in place until there is a vaccine. If we want a society worth coming back to then at some point we have to be willing to take a few risks.

the government and the MSM have driven that fear
The government ads with the 'Stay home, Stay safe, control the virus' in a creepy voice would put the fear of god into many people.
and they repeated it every ad break.
Thats why people are behaving irrationally.
Unwinding that will be very hard

 

[Ken H]

For as long as we having all been breathing we have been potentially spreading disease to other people that may put them at risk. Literally every minute we spend time with other people, we might be putting them at risk. So what's different about this particular virus? Why do we suddenly have to walk around with masks and treat everyone else like am unacceptable risk factor? Its time we started accepting that we won't eliminate the virus by hiding behind the sofa.

This ^^^^

 

[bramling]

It would be more sensible if you read all of that post. The fourth reason for being fearful of COVID-19 was: "d) I don't want to spread it to other people, whatever their level of risk." You see, it's not all about 'self' with everybody. It goes on: " it's what makes me practice good hand hygiene and wear a facecovering when out and about." Rather that make all sorts of justification why they don't need to wear a face covering, the poster just get's on with it as part of their respect for others.

And this is part of the problem we now have - rational decision making has been infected by emotive concepts such as "respect for others". This is why we see people wearing masks in environments where it now very much seems to be the case that there's little chance of spreading to others (outdoors). Likewise there's no value in increasing one's personal risk of being infected, as that simply increases the risk of passing it on to others, especially if mask wearing leads to complacency.

It does seem to be the case that masks have now become some kind of political statement, with many people overlooking the reasons why they might be wearing them in the first place.

 

[bramling]

Vast swathes of the UK population simply lack the mental faculties to think critically or process conflicting information.

Spot on.

Unfortunately instead of having a smart government able to make the right decisions and lead well, instead we have a dregs government who seem to be drawn from the segment of the population described above.

So this is all partly the consequences of being forced to choose a "least worst" government.

 

[DB]

Spot on.

Unfortunately instead of having a smart government able to make the right decisions and lead well, instead we have a dregs government who seem to be drawn from the segment of the
population described above.

So this is all partly the consequences of being forced to choose a "least worst" government.

While all that's true, the more capable governments in various other countries also seem to have made a similar cock-up of this situation.

 

[Ken H]

And this is part of the problem we now have - rational decision making has been infected by emotive concepts such as "respect for others". This is why we see people wearing masks in environments where it now very much seems to be the case that there's little chance of spreading to others (outdoors). Likewise there's no value in increasing one's personal risk of being infected, as that simply increases the risk of passing it on to others, especially if mask wearing leads to complacency.

It does seem to be the case that masks have now become some kind of political statement, with many people overlooking the reasons why they might be wearing them in the first place.

we havent worn masks in past Flu epidemics. We were told to catch it and bin it. and thousands of people die of flu each winter. Still dont know why we have to for this one, and in the summer too.

 

[yorkie]

Have these folks done any research at all? And as for any teachers complaining, thankfully supermarket workers did not take the same attitude otherwise we'd have all starved!

1) no; if they had they would be able to have a more balanced and informed opinion for a more sustainable set of measures
2) every teacher I've spoken to wants schools to be fully reopened.

 

[Ken H]

1) no; if they had they would be able to have a more balanced and informed opinion for a more sustainable set of measures
2) every teacher I've spoken to wants schools to be fully reopened.

the government Isnt being driven by science. its being driven by a hysterical media. They should listen to people outside the Westminster bubble, not the twitter loonies.

They are scared of 'boris killed my granny' headlines.

 

[65477]

I spent the period of SARS / bird flu working in business continuity and used to get the government and WHO briefings etc. As such planned for death as being a highly possible outcome.

In risk analysis you can take four options: accept, transfer, mitigate or transfer the risk.

Currently, taking into account my age and medical history I consider that in some situations I can mitigate the risk by only entering location s where face masks, hand sanitizer are a must. Also I live between two towns one with a very low incidence of infections and one higher with visitors from a wide area I choose to shop in the one with low infections.

Yes I read the virus in the same way I read anything that is very likely to kill me. I cannot transfer the risk, I can only avoid it by isolation. Until the risk is eliminated by vaccination or a cure my actions will remain the same.

 

[Richard Scott]

I think some of the problem is people are so used to being told what to do in our nanny state that some are unable to think for themselves. Those of us who do and challenge the status quo are seen as granny killers, being disrespectful to others etc. We're not we've just used our brain to analyse the situation and come up with something that disagrees with what we were told to think. This is what humans should do or do we just want to become programmed machines?

 

[Ken H]

I spent the period of SARS / bird flu working in business continuity and used to get the government and WHO briefings etc. As such planned for death as being a highly possible outcome.

In risk analysis you can take four options: accept, transfer, mitigate or transfer the risk.

Currently, taking into account my age and medical history I consider that in some situations I can mitigate the risk by only entering location s where face masks, hand sanitizer are a must. Also I live between two towns one with a very low incidence of infections and one higher with visitors from a wide area I choose to shop in the one with low infections.

Yes I read the virus in the same way I read anything that is very likely to kill me. I cannot transfer the risk, I can only avoid it by isolation. Until the risk is eliminated by vaccination or a cure my actions will remain the same.

the common cold is a corona virus. they have been looking for a vaccine for that for decades. I think you could have a long wait for an effective vaccine.

I think they will find ways to treat COVID over time to reduce its death risk. Maybe Hydroxychloroquine, maybe something else

but it will be here for ever, along side SARS, Ebola and flu. You can hide at home, or take life by the balls....