Accidental use of the DSD GSMR alarm

[Tazi Hupefi]

Out if interest is the DSD GSM-R alarm a regular annoyance for signallers, i.e. drivers slow to react and 99.9% of the time a red faced driver calls up afterwards? Or would a signaller be taken by surprise with this and jump into action immediately?

Moderator note: added descriptions below:

DSD = Drivers Safety Device
GSM-R = Global System for Mobile Communications-Railway

 

[tiptoptaff]

Out if interest is the DSD GSMR alarm a regular annoyance for signallers, I.e. drivers slow to react and 99.9% of the time a red faced driver calls up afterwards? Or would a signaller be taken by surprise with this and jump into action immediately?

As it's a full minute after the initial alarm sounds the alert is sent, not many drivers are "slow to react" to it. Not many of us set it off at all

 

[FGW_DID]

Out if interest is the DSD GSMR alarm a regular annoyance for signallers, I.e. drivers slow to react and 99.9% of the time a red faced driver calls up afterwards? Or would a signaller be taken by surprise with this and jump into action immediately?

It‘s not just Drivers who can set it off! I’ve had calls quite often from the Reading Signaller at TVSC asking if we have unit xxxxxx on the depot as they’ve received a DSD alarm from it. 9/10 it’s the fitters that’s have done something and triggered the alarm, a quick reassurance call to the team leader to ensure everything ok and report back to the Signaller.

 

[43066]

It‘s not just Drivers who can set it off! I’ve had calls quite often from the Reading Signaller at TVSC asking if we have unit xxxxxx on the depot as they’ve received a DSD alarm from it. 9/10 it’s the fitters that’s have done something and triggered the alarm, a quick reassurance call to the team leader to ensure everything ok and report back to the Signaller.

Cleaners have also been known to trigger the GSMR REC button!

 

[baz962]

N

Cleaners have also been known to trigger the GSMR REC button!

Not the rec , but I have accidentally belled the signaller and done s few accidental standing at signal.

 

[37057]

I've had it initiate when inputting a speed signal into a unit for fault finding, speedo testing etc. Easiest thing to do isolate DSD or GSMR.

Listening to the DSD for a minute while testing it on prep is pure pain.

 

[LAX54]

Norwich Panel, gets their fair share, normally from a unit in the depot being cleaned, can be annoying. DSD alert is just a slightly quieter version of the Urgent call

 

[357]

Listening to the DSD for a minute while testing it on prep is pure pain.

You let it go for that long? At my TOC we test it on prep just until the brakes go into emergency.

 

[4F89]

You let it go for that long? At my TOC we test it on prep just until the brakes go into emergency.

At my FOC we drop it all the way to alarm. Safety first!

20 mins to prep, so use all the time and do it right.

 

[Dieseldriver]

At my FOC we drop it all the way to alarm. Safety first!

20 mins to prep, so use all the time and do it right.

Agreed. Waiting just 30 seconds in each cab to check the DSD alarm works isn't much to ask for when you consider just how important that feature is.

 

[357]

At my FOC we drop it all the way to alarm. Safety first!

20 mins to prep, so use all the time and do it right.

Agreed. Waiting just 30 seconds in each cab to check the DSD alarm works isn't much to ask for when you consider just how important that feature is.

Whoa guys, a bit extreme to suggest I'm not doing it right or rushing just because my TOC has a slightly different checklist on prep.

Just saying that at my TOC our checklist states that once the brake pressure rises to an emergency application we continue with the prep, personally I can see the advantage of waiting but I'm not the one who makes the rules. Someone, somewhere has decided it's not required...

Our of interest @4F89 - do you prep wagons in that 20 minute period too? At my TOC in 20 minutes we are expected to do an external and internal prep of a 4 car unit, we get an extra 5 minutes for each additional 4 car unit if running in multiple.

 

[4F89]

Whoa guys, a bit extreme to suggest I'm not doing it right or rushing just because my TOC has a slightly different checklist on prep.

Just saying that at my TOC our checklist states that once the brake pressure rises to an emergency application we continue with the prep, personally I can see the advantage of waiting but I'm not the one who makes the rules. Someone, somewhere has decided it's not required...

Our of interest @4F89 - do you prep wagons in that 20 minute period too? At my TOC in 20 minutes we are expected to do an external and internal prep of a 4 car unit, we get an extra 5 minutes for each additional 4 car unit if running in multiple.

Thats just loco prep. 20 mins per loco.

 

[driver9000]

Whoa guys, a bit extreme to suggest I'm not doing it right or rushing just because my TOC has a slightly different checklist on prep.

Just saying that at my TOC our checklist states that once the brake pressure rises to an emergency application we continue with the prep, personally I can see the advantage of waiting but I'm not the one who makes the rules. Someone, somewhere has decided it's not required...

Same at both TOCs I've worked at, no need to wait for the GSMR trumpets when testing the DSD.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I'm not suggesting that you're doing anything wrong. Just stating my personal opinion that it's worthwhile waiting 30 seconds to check that the GSMR prepares a DSD alarm. That's what I have always done since the introduction of GSMR.

 

[O L Leigh]

Norwich Panel, gets their fair share, normally from a unit in the depot being cleaned, can be annoying. DSD alert is just a slightly quieter version of the Urgent call

Forgive the question, but why are cleaners "keyed in" to trains? Fitters I get, but not cleaners.

 

[43066]

Forgive the question, but why are cleaners "keyed in" to trains? Fitters I get, but not cleaners.

I think we might be talking there about cleaners making REC calls. If you accidentally press the red button the GSMR unit will power up and make the call even with no key on.

 

[LAX54]

I think we might be talking there about cleaners making REC calls. If you accidentally press the red button the GSMR unit will power up and make the call even with no key on.

No we have never had, that I can recall a REC call, but we have had DSD alarms, sometimes we have had an answer saying 'sorry cleaning' and the odd time a fitter saying sorry, but mostly, no answer at all !

 

[O L Leigh]

So to come back to my question, why are cleaners "keyed in" to trains?

 

[37057]

So to come back to my question, why are cleaners "keyed in" to trains?

I can imagine a situation where they need to power up trains to do the job and probably haven't been trained properly. Just like when doors are opened and DKS left in...

 

[PennineSuperb]

So to come back to my question, why are cleaners "keyed in" to trains?

Not sure at this location, but where trains are stabled at outpost depots on our network a percentage of cleaners are trained how to start and shut down trains for cleaning with lighting/heat/doors open.

 

[Ashley Hill]

When I learnt GSM-R I was told that the red emergency button was live at all times even when switched off. Nobody I know has been brave enough to try and prove it. Is the red button live when switched off?

I posted the above elsewhere but it seems more fitting here. Does anyone know the answer?

 

[357]

I posted the above elsewhere but it seems more fitting here. Does anyone know the answer?

I know someone who's made a urgent call from the back cab - it works

Regarding cleaners, at my TOC various cleaners are trained in how to aux off and aux on the trains.

 

[43066]

I posted the above elsewhere but it seems more fitting here. Does anyone know the answer?

Yes, hence the points made above about cleaners making REC calls with no key on.

I can imagine a situation where they need to power up trains to do the job and probably haven't been trained properly. Just like when doors are opened and DKS left in...

Presumably on stock that needs a key on to be powered up, they’re putting the DDS in forward rather than neutral, not realising. I’m surprised cleaners are put in a position of having to operate cab controls. Wherever I’ve worked they aren’t issued drivers’ keys, and certainly cannot put door releases up. This does rely on trains being left in the correct condition to allow cleaning.

 

[357]

Presumably on stock that needs a key on to be powered up, they’re putting the DDS in forward rather than neutral, not realising. I’m surprised cleaners are put in a position of having to operate cab controls. Wherever I’ve worked they aren’t issued drivers’ keys, and certainly cannot put door releases up. This does rely on trains being left in the correct condition to allow cleaning.

I would imagine so, I've not heard of it happening at my place though. However I did have one amusing incident with a cleaning supervisor shouting at another cleaner thinking they were responsible for an ADD activation on the unit !

 

[E27007]

There have been a few funnies with the DSD/GSMR alarm, where the sequence of the Warbler alarm sounding and the GSMR counting down to phone the signaller, self-triggers at random. Report the occurence to the Fitters and they cannot reproduce the fault. Eventually Drivers no longer bother to report the fault

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened on request for @D365.

 

[D365]

Thanks @Cowley.

Regarding the accidental triggering of the GSM-R alarm while a vehicle is on depot. At the depots which I have visited, it is standard practice to trip the GSM-R MCB in order to prevent this. Is this not commonplace?