Accounting For All Passengers in an Emergency

[Ken H]

Then you have to identify them all. Rail tickets dont come with a passenger name like airline tickets.

Charfield rail accident there were 2 kids found in the wreckage that were never identified. 13 Oct 1928

And today mobile phones would have been on the train. passengers could be tracked by those.

Edit. Mod has asked me to cite my source. This was in Red for Danger by LTC Rolt. this is discussed on wiki (link to wiki article here - https://*******.com/yy362jnq ) but casts doubts on Rolts account.

 

[A Challenge]

Ticketing isn't relevant at all.

Consider the huge number of tickets that would be valid on a particular service, with no requirement for a reservation. Consider also that many tickets are not only valid on multiple trains but over multiple days, such as Seasons, Rovers, Returns, Staff passes etc.

I know this is not going to be popular and I'd be against it, but couldn't they make seasons and rovers an entitlement card to free tickets (that must be carried on all journeys using them) within their validity area, with a reservation (separate to a seat reservation if one isn't wanted/available, and sellable up to departure) to a train? Of course it would add more complexity to the system, but would allow seasons and rovers (and even non fixed train returns) to be used while still knowing everyone on the train

 

[Taunton]

Charfield rail accident there were 2 kids found in the wreckage that were never identified. 13 Oct 1928

That's generally felt to be an urban legend, the local undertaker provided two small coffins for "body parts", which were mis-identified as being for children (including by Rolt [who lived nearby] in "Red for Danger".

Charfield railway disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

More generally, we need to get away from this desire to have every single passenger on board identified in advance. I've been travelling on trains all my life and never been involved in anything where name taking would be in any way justified. There are other scenes of major incidents, in shopping centres, in theatres, etc, which also do not have all the names of those taken "just in case". If something happens the various emergency bodies do know how to handle it. Otherwise it will be yet another hassle to drive passengers away to their cars.

 

[randyrippley]

The local Mountain Rescue teams usually get called in to search the surrounding terrain.
For instance at Greyrigg several teams from Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and the Search & Rescue Dogs Association got called out and spent at least a couple of days searching.

 

[Mat17]

More generally, we need to get away from this desire to have every single passenger on board identified in advance. I've been travelling on trains all my life and never been involved in anything where name taking would be in any way justified. There are other scenes of major incidents, in shopping centres, in theatres, etc, which also do not have all the names of those taken "just in case". If something happens the various emergency bodies do know how to handle it. Otherwise it will be yet another hassle to drive passengers away to their cars.

Also gathering passenger information like that could be yet another GDPR pitfall if such lists were 'lost' or left lying around.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Also gathering passenger information like that could be yet another GDPR pitfall if such lists were 'lost' or left lying around.

Or used for other purposes

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I'm repeating what has already been said, but the emergency services do train for rail accidents. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has a small railway training area at their Cambuslang training centre, there's a slightly larger railway training area at the Fire Services College at Moreton-in-the-Marsh and other emergency service training centres have similar training areas.

They're set up so various scenarios can be created, from cars being hit by a train at a level crossing through to derailments, with vehicles rotated onto their sides of roofs. Moreton has some freight rolling stock and can mock-up derailments with hazardous materials, don't know if Cambuslang can, but regardless, these sites are all training firefighters in how to deal with serious rail incidents.

The emergency services will conduct a thorough and methodical survey of the coaching stock and will determine if searches of the surrounding area are needed. It has been mentioned above that additional emergency services may well be requested, such as mountain rescue or (as is the case at Stonehaven) coastguard rescue. They can provide the ground search skills that may be needed, especially if there's a concern than someone has been ejected from the train during the accident.

The use of mobile phone data has its limitations - lack of coverage, damage to handsets, phones switched off - and it isn't therefore a substitute for a thorough ground search using trained emergency service personnel. Mobile phone data is most likely to come into use if someone was reported missing and there was a concern they may have been involved in an incident, rather than a first option to check who is on a train.

 

[Hadders]

I know this is not going to be popular and I'd be against it, but couldn't they make seasons and rovers an entitlement card to free tickets (that must be carried on all journeys using them) within their validity area, with a reservation (separate to a seat reservation if one isn't wanted/available, and sellable up to departure) to a train? Of course it would add more complexity to the system, but would allow seasons and rovers (and even non fixed train returns) to be used while still knowing everyone on the train

Absolutely not. How is that going to work on something like Thameslink at St Pancras? Queue up at the ticket office to get a 'reservation' to go with a season ticket. Go downstairs to the platforms and with a train every 2-3 minutes at peak times there's no guarantee I'd end up on the correct train.

 

[43096]

I'm repeating what has already been said, but the emergency services do train for rail accidents. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service has a small railway training area at their Cambuslang training centre, there's a slightly larger railway training area at the Fire Services College at Moreton-in-the-Marsh and other emergency service training centres have similar training areas.

Ironically the Scottish Fire & Rescue Service has recently received two HST coaches for use in training.

 

[Ken H]

Ironically the Scottish Fire & Rescue Service has recently received two HST coaches for use in training.

didn't the SAS used to receive scrap stock at moreton on Lugg for training.

 

[Llanigraham]

didn't the SAS used to receive scrap stock at moreton on Lugg for training.

Not a Moreton, but at their site near Pontrilas

 

[6Gman]

didn't the SAS used to receive scrap stock at moreton on Lugg for training.

They did.

 

[Llanigraham]

Sorry, but the SAS do not use Moreton on Lugg. The railway "stuff" can/could be found at Abbey Dore, near Pontrilas.
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