UK face coverings discussion

[Bletchleyite]

Although we're straying slightly off-topic here, I find this website quite useful: https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/

There's a UK version here: https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

Ooh, I like that. Cheers.

 

[westv]

That will change when we get the second wave because people aren't wearing masks though!! </sarcasm>

Which people? Where?

 

[WM Bus]

National Express have put up a post asking for random members of the public to stand around in Birmingham City Centre and other town centres enforcing this rule.
Which seems ridiculous to me. If their drivers can't enforce it what chance does some random person have.
And hope they have training in invisible disabilities, etc as well. And surely it is only likely to cause problems as well.

National Express West Midlands

Transport Hub are looking for volunteers to help passengers use public transport safely, offering a friendly face and advising about face coverings and social distancing when on board If you can...

www.facebook.com

 

[py_megapixel]

National Express have put up a post asking for random members of the public to stand around in Birmingham City Centre enforcing this rule.
Which seems ridiculous to me. If there drivers can't enforce what chance does some random person have.
And hope they have training in invisibal disabilities, etc as well. And surely it is only likely to cause problems as well.

National Express West Midlands

Transport Hub are looking for volunteers to help passengers use public transport safely, offering a friendly face and advising about face coverings and social distancing when on board If you can...

www.facebook.com

Yes it is ridiculous.

I would hope that the transport operators could just have enough trust in their passengers' ability to determine whether they are able to wear a face covering or not, rather than recruiting vigilantes (who they aren't even paying) to do this for them.

 

[Ken H]

And don't forget that it'll be a lot worse than the first wave, and will coincide with a massive flu epidemic as well...

That will be now. 5 times as many people are dying of flu and pneumonia than are dying of COVID. (But deaths of respiuratory disease re down on 5 year average)

 

[DB]

National Express have put up a post asking for random members of the public to stand around in Birmingham City Centre and other town cnetres enforcing this rule.
Which seems ridiculous to me. If there drivers can't enforce it what chance does some random person have.
And hope they have training in invisibal disabilities, etc as well. And surely it is only likely to cause problems as well.

National Express West Midlands

Transport Hub are looking for volunteers to help passengers use public transport safely, offering a friendly face and advising about face coverings and social distancing when on board If you can...

www.facebook.com

And you can be sure that the type of people who will volunteer to do this are the ones who should never be allowed to do it...

 

[Ken H]

One thing of note (and I can't see for today as they appear to have stuffed it up, given up and gone home, so no figures until tomorrow) is that while cases are increasing the severity of them clearly isn't - deaths and hospital admissions continue downwards. If this is the case, it's quite possible masks are lessening the viral load leading to less severe cases, though to be fair there are other possible explanations too.

Hot weather, meaning we ar not all indoors. And UV kills it. so touch we touch outside is disinfected by sunlight quite quickly.

 

[Ken H]

Indeed, and I have heard suggestions that a lot of it is younger people. There's also the possibility that the virus is mutating to become less severe, as viruses tend to do. (They don't exist to kill us, they exist to procreate - if they can do this more effectively by not killing the host, then that form of the virus will be more successful).

or its been rife in the younger population for a long time and we are finding out because we are testing.

 

[adc82140]

How dare these cancer patients be so SELFISH, don't they know the NHS is OVERWHELMED due to the PANDEMIC.


In other news, the Hopsital near my parents has said that they have exactly Zero covid patients now.

There are 18 covid patients across the whole of the South West in hospital.

That's in the following hospitals:

Truro, Plymouth, Torbay, Exeter, North Devon District, Bristol, Weston Super Mare, Swindon, Salisbury, Bournemouth, Poole, Dorchester plus lots of smaller community hospitals.

Not many is it.

 

[Domh245]

If this is the case, it's quite possible masks are lessening the viral load leading to less severe cases, though to be fair there are other possible explanations too.

I think that the other explanations are far more likely to be perfectly honest, particularly the one about testing far more. At the start of July, there were ~85000 pillar 1 and 2 tests in the UK per day, the average is now almost 148000 as of the tests processed yesterday. You'll also notice that if you plot the number of tests, and the number of cases, they do seem remarkably in step. Whilst there may be some merit in the "masks are reducing viral load and therefore admissions/deaths" line, any effect is going to be minimal compared to more testing picking up more mild and asymptomatic cases.

 

[yorkie]

I think that the other explanations are far more likely to be perfectly honest...

Agreed; as I mentioned in this post, Sweden has seen a steady decline in the death rate, despite an increase in positive tests; they don't mandate masks!

 

[birchesgreen]

Went to my local Lidl earlier, fairly busy and nearly half not wearing masks which was interesting. Previously in shops maybe been 1 or 2 maskless but not dozens.

 

[High Dyke]

No - and neither do we know how many now avoid shops because of the mask rule.

My visits to shops has declined. I can't get on wearing the disposable masks; you know the type that people tend to re-use... Anyroad, I purchased some cotton ones to wear. I was in my local M&S yesterday morning, and have to say that the weather made it rather uncomfortable to wear. I'd prefer not to wear one if possible, but I don't have any claim to an exemption.

 

[Huntergreed]

I'm both shocked and disappointed at the number of people who are tweeting TOC social media pages to say 'XXX hasn't got a mask on, why are you not enforcing it??'. There's no understanding or acceptance of exemptions whatsoever on social media I can see, we've become a society where disabled people are being excluded because they are unable to follow a law that I'm convinced provides no real benefit to life or society in any way, when will this madness stop

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I'm both shocked and disappointed at the number of people who are tweeting TOC social media pages to say 'XXX hasn't got a mask on, why are you not enforcing it??'. There's no understanding or acceptance of exemptions whatsoever on social media I can see, we've become a society where disabled people are being excluded because they are unable to follow a law that I'm convinced provides no real benefit to life or society in any way, when will this madness stop

Anyone who does this, or uses the phrase "just wear a f-ing mask" now gets blocked or muted by me, depends which side of bed I get up on.

Quite frankly it's nobody's business why someone isn't wearing a mask.

 

[Yew]

Went to my local Lidl earlier, fairly busy and nearly half not wearing masks which was interesting. Previously in shops maybe been 1 or 2 maskless but not dozens.

Let's hope it continues that way!

 

[trebor79]

One thing of note (and I can't see for today as they appear to have stuffed it up, given up and gone home, so no figures until tomorrow) is that while cases are increasing the severity of them clearly isn't - deaths and hospital admissions continue downwards. If this is the case, it's quite possible masks are lessening the viral load leading to less severe cases, though to be fair there are other possible explanations too.

I think it's more to do with testing having ramped up hugely and being focused in outbreak areas. Also now it isn't rampaging care homes the demographic of infections is younger.
The proportion of positive tests has remained flat. Tallies with PHE saying they think infection levels in the community are now declining.
Also mirrored in Spain. Spanish doctor on TV last week talking about their "surge" "It's mainly younger people now. They aren't unwell, we test them and they are positive but are completely well".

 

[py_megapixel]

Let's hope it continues that way!

If you don't want to wear a mask (and couldn't at all be considered exempt from the regulations) then... you know what... fine. I don't care. Much of the population are doing it anyway, even if they'd prefer not to, but whatever.

However, I cannot understand why people seem to advocate for people who don't mind wearing masks ignoring the rules just for the sake of it.

If you're not wearing a mask then that's none of my business. But similarly, if someone else chooses to wear a mask then that's none of anybody else's business.

 

[Smidster]

The age profile would be a good guide - it's it mostly younger people then that would explain low hospital admissions.

The age profile is definitely getting younger - age data is included in the weekly PHE surveillance reports.

The other thing is that most of the cases at the moment are picked up in Pillar 2 which is the community testing so generally people who don't need any medical attention.

Incidentally today's data total is still available on the old website - cases were over 1100 but under 100 of those came from pillar 1

Back on masks there was a study in the Washington Post today which compared different types of masks / coverings. As you would expect performance differed greatly from surgical masks at one end to the likes of neck warmers at the other. Cloth masks did some good but we're far from perfect - and of course that was in a lab environment without people fiddling and touching their faces.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...a-b205-ff838e15a9a6_story.html?outputType=amp

 

[Yew]

If you're not wearing a mask then that's none of my business. But similarly, if someone else chooses to wear a mask then that's none of anybody else's business.

I completely agree, unfortunately our beloved tyrant does not.

 

[bramling]

National Express have put up a post asking for random members of the public to stand around in Birmingham City Centre and other town centres enforcing this rule.
Which seems ridiculous to me. If their drivers can't enforce it what chance does some random person have.
And hope they have training in invisible disabilities, etc as well. And surely it is only likely to cause problems as well.

National Express West Midlands

Transport Hub are looking for volunteers to help passengers use public transport safely, offering a friendly face and advising about face coverings and social distancing when on board If you can...

www.facebook.com

*Surely* this is a windup?

We already have the lilac hi-vi brigade at places like Euston, today when I exited the station four out of five were wearing masks round their chin.

Why do we have to tolerate this nonsense?

 

[py_megapixel]

today when I exited the station four out of five were wearing masks round their chin.

The transparent plastic visors are much better in this respect. Harder to get wrong, and they look far less intimidating too

 

[kez19]

*Surely* this is a windup?

We already have the lilac hi-vi brigade at places like Euston, today when I exited the station four out of five were wearing masks round their chin.

Why do we have to tolerate this nonsense?

Thank god they'll not implement this on their own services in Dundee (NX - Xplore Dundee), surely this would backfire on the company?

the thing that gets me with "mask" wearing I am surprised why people in certain industries don't get exempt? I work in care I already wear it on shifts (hours vary) but lets say at least 12 hours a day, I just feel when outside of work its constant wearing (if going out using transport/shops), just to add I am not trying to say that I should be exempt but in my own opinion its feels like it one of those things you think of and question...

I'm off to Glasgow mid september i'll guess by then that I will be masked in my room

 

[island]

The transparent plastic visors are much better in this respect. Harder to get wrong, and they look far less intimidating too

But not allowed in Scotland, and I fear that might spread.

 

[py_megapixel]

But not allowed in Scotland, and I fear that might spread.

That seems utterly ridiculous. Though, it's possible that the disposable surgical type are massively more effective (but I doubt that)

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The poor fella standing outside Markies in Dundee today handing out baskets was wearing a visor by itself.

He might as well have been wearing no face covering in that case. But must be seen to be doing something...

 

[AM9]

Talking of people being 'selfish', take a look at the tweets I quoted in this post, regarding people covered by exemptions, and tell me who is being selfish in those interactions?

I'd argue that the height of selfishness is to try to exclude people with disabilities from society (or by making them feel so uncomfortable that they feel excluded), which is what some pro-mask activists appear to be doing.

Where have I said that I was referring people with exemptions? I commented in response to an assertion about some people's IQ that wasn't supported by anything more than a anecdote. You need to read my posts in context right back to post#1256 where @talldave said:"... my belief that the level of hysteria is inversely proportional to IQ". The claim was that a GP agreed with that, - obviously not a very professional GP to make such a statement about some of his patients to another patient, but that's off topic.

 

[initiation]

First big food shop since the mask rule came in for England. I actually drove the extra distance to go over the Severn bridge into Wales and a tesco in Chepstow (the shop being 300m from the border!). Total extra time was 23 minutes each way. The shopping experience was pleasant with no one way systems and of course no masks.

I was going to count mask usage but lost track half way through. Something like 10% were wearing masks.

 

[kez19]

But not allowed in Scotland, and I fear that might spread.

I have seen a few people on buses locally wearing visors (surprised in that retrospect) in Dundee yesterday...

 

[yorkie]

Where have I said that I was referring people with exemptions?

Did I say you were?

I commented in response to an assertion about some people's IQ that wasn't supported by anything more than a anecdote. You need to read my posts in context right back to post#1256 where @talldave said:"... my belief that the level of hysteria is inversely proportional to IQ". The claim was that a GP agreed with that, - obviously not a very professional GP to make such a statement about some of his patients to another patient, but that's off topic.

You misunderstood my post. I commented in a response to an assertion that people were being "selfish". Here is another example of selfish behaviour:

https://twitter.com/rickyde4/status/1290939533127712768

"Please remove your face covering so I can understand you better"
Not from me you wont. Ill be keeping mine on thanks

First big food shop since the mask rule came in for England. I actually drove the extra distance to go over the Severn bridge into Wales and a tesco in Chepstow (the shop being 300m from the border!). Total extra time was 23 minutes each way. The shopping experience was pleasant with no one way systems and of course no masks.

I was going to count mask usage but lost track half way through. Something like 10% were wearing masks.

Some people will argue that 90% of people are being "selfish" but that's an absurd argument. Most people here do not want to wear masks but will do so if forced. I'd rather not wear a mask but I wouldn't travel an extra 46 minutes to avoid it. No one-way systems in Tescos in England, by the way, so the only difference is the masks.