UK face coverings discussion

[DB]

Indeed, hence why surgical and n95s are the only ones that really work.

Are you just going to completely ignore the fact that several people have pointed out that medical-grade masks should only be used by people with proper training, and according to approved clinical practice?

Are you fully trained in how to fit and use an N95 respirator to clinical standards?

 

[Journeyman]

So why are we bothering with all this nonsense about covering our faces then?

We must do something. This is something.

 

[py_megapixel]

So why are we bothering with all this nonsense about covering our faces then?

I believe it's largely trying to give the public confidence, so that they are out spending money again and can get the economy working as it was.

 

[yorkie]

Indeed, hence why surgical and n95s are the only ones that really work.

Are you suggesting the widespread use of N95 masks by the general public?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Are you just going to completely ignore the fact that several people have pointed out that medical-grade masks should only be used by people with proper training, and according to approved clinical practice?

Are you fully trained in how to fit and use an N95 respirator to clinical standards?

And you are even going to bother to read the evidence that @jtuk has sent to you that talks about N95s being the most effective?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Are you suggesting the widespread use of N95 masks by the general public?

Yes actually. So that we can go back to the 2019 normal thanks to reduced infection rates.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Deleted

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Please please please stop trying to push the N95 masks. Unless they are professionally fit tested they are DANGEROUS. If you are wearing one, please cease to do so immediately.

These need to be reserved for NHS front-line staff who are properly fit-tested. And we need enough of them to get through the winter "second-wave"

 

[py_megapixel]

And you are even going to bother to read the evidence that @jtuk has sent to you that talks about N95s being the most effective?

Are you even going to bother to read the posts, and evidence, on here, which reiterate that wearing of N95s by the general public is problematic for several reasons?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Are you even going to bother to read the posts, and evidence, on here, which reiterate that wearing of N95s by the general public is problematic for several reasons?

I did, and I disagree with these opinions because of the evidence @jtuk sent.

 

[DB]

And you are even going to bother to read the evidence that @jtuk has sent to you that talks about N95s being the most effective?

Nobody is disuputing that medical grade masks used in clinical settings have evidence for being effective.

What has been pointed out to you repeatedly is that:
a) They are needed by the medical profession so others should not be taking any of the limited supply
b) They are only effective if used according to proper clinical practice - that means fitting them properly, making sure they are kept sterile when fitted, not touching them at all while they are being worn, and replacing them after half an hour (or sooner if they get damp), among other things. This is simply not possible outside of a clinical setting.

 

[Richard Scott]

Yes actually. So that we can go back to the 2019 normal thanks to reduced infection rates.

So you are saying that it's only transmitted through air? Why are we washing our hands and being encouraged to use hand sanitiser all the time? So solution is we all get one of these masks and get on with life? No distancing, no sanitiser everywhere?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only cloth coverings are useless. N95s and FPPN3 are the most useful ones.

Btw, there's one airline in France (if I remember correctly it's Air France) that only allows passengers with N95s and FPPN3 to board their planes.

Air France's website suggests that the French law is that fabric face coverings aren't enough on any form of public transport, as a minimum it has to be one of the blue disposable surgical type.

https://www.airfrance.co.uk/GB/en/common/page_flottante/information/faq-coronavirus.htm

Edit: on reading it again it suggests those aren't enough and it has to be some kind of respirator (FFP1-3).

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Air France's website suggests that the French law is that fabric face coverings aren't enough on any form of public transport, as a minimum it has to be one of the blue disposable surgical type.

https://www.airfrance.co.uk/GB/en/common/page_flottante/information/faq-coronavirus.htm

Well done to France realising that N95s and FPPN3 are the only masks that REALLY work.

 

[DB]

Well done to France realising that N95s and FPPN3 are the only masks that REALLY work.

Are you going to keep on repeating the same thing while ignoring the issues which have been pointed out to you over and over again?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you are saying that it's only transmitted through air? Why are we washing our hands and being encouraged to use hand sanitiser all the time? So solution is we all get one of these masks and get on with life? No distancing, no sanitiser everywhere?

It would probably be possible to do that if everyone (without exception) had an N95 respirator without valve, yes. However that isn't realistic.

 

[Richard Scott]

Well done to France realising that N95s and FPPN3 are the only masks that REALLY work.

Evidence please. France is having a bit of an issue with infection rate at the moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well done to France realising that N95s and FPPN3 are the only masks that REALLY work.

Did you read it? FFPN3 is not a mask standard. FFP1, FFP2 and FFP3 are specified.

Amusingly the accompanying picture shows someone wearing a mask that is none of those.

 

[DB]

Evidence please.

Don't get him started! He's already demonstrated that he doesn't appear to understand the difference between clinical settings and shopping in Tesco!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Did you read it? FFPN3 is not a mask standard. FFP1, FFP2 and FFP3 are specified.

Ok I must have spelt it wrongly. But the one I'm talking about is the blue coloured three layer mask.

 

[py_megapixel]

Are you going to keep on repeating the same thing while ignoring the issues which have been pointed out to you over and over again?

I find myself asking this question as well.

I did, and I disagree with these opinions because of the evidence @jtuk sent.

What "opinions"?

1. Diverting N95 masks to the general public would cause another severe PPE shortage in the NHS, which, last time, caused severe problems. That is not an opinion. That is a fact.
   
   
2. N95 masks are disposable, which would cause huge amounts of waste compared to cloth face coverings. That is also not an opinion. That is a fact.
   
   
3. N95 masks can cause severe harm if they are not used correctly, and most of the public (including myself and I'd wager most of the forum who don't work in environments where they're frequently needed) are not correctly trained on how to use them. That is also not an opinion. That is a fact.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I have doubts that N95 don't work outside of clinical settings. Whilst you are entitled to your opinion, I have to say that all what you said isn't true, as N95s should be replaced every 4 hours, not every 30 minutes.

Are you going to keep on repeating the same thing while ignoring the issues which have been pointed out to you over and over again?

But there's at least one country (possibly more) that completely shares the same opinions of myself.

 

[Richard Scott]

It would probably be possible to do that if everyone (without exception) had an N95 respirator without valve, yes. However that isn't realistic.

No it wouldn't as people will still touch surfaces. You'd be assuming everyone has cleaned hands after mask put on, that isn't going to happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ok I must have spelt it wrongly. But the one I'm talking about is the blue coloured three layer mask.

Which isn't any of those three despite being pictured.

 

[Richard Scott]

But there's at least one country (possibly more) that completely shares the same opinions of myself.

And as pointed out that country's infections are currently on the rise. Oh dear.

 

[DB]

But there's at least one country (possibly more) that completely shares the same opinions of myself.

Last time I checked, airlines did not count as countries...

 

[SouthEastBuses]

And as pointed out that country's infections are currently on the rise. Oh dear.

Because people act that it's all over and therefore gather in large gatherings without wearing them, which is utterly responsible of them.

 

[A Challenge]

What I find interesting is that people seem to think that masks and no distancing does constitute getting back to normal but that social distancing and no masks doesn't, when in fact I'd say it's the other way round.

 

[Richard Scott]

Because people act that it's all over and therefore gather in large gatherings without wearing them, which is utterly responsible of them.

Perhaps they're as fed up with this over the top nonsense like loads of us are and just want to get it out of the way and get on with life unlike our dictatorial politicians.

 

[Huntergreed]

Because people act that it's all over and therefore gather in large gatherings without wearing them, which is utterly responsible of them.

Question is, do we have a government imposing restrictions on a population where the vast majority of people do not agree with them and simply want a less restrictive approach? Quite possibly, and this isn't a healthy way for a democracy to operate.