Carlisle to Settle service frequency

[Scottychoo]

Hi all, looking to enjoy a first time journey over this line but the current Northern service is pretty sparse to say the least.
What was the frequency pre Covid, was it hourly?
Also any idea if Northern will be back to the full timetable service from the 13th Sept change?
Many thanks

 

[yorksrob]

The service wasn't hourly pre-covid - roughly two hourly, but the service ran considerably later in the day than the current timetable.

The last train south from Ribblehead was around 21:00 as I recall. The current effort is woeful.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Agreed that the current service is rubbish. I was hoping to use the S&C line to get out into the Dales to do some walks in what we have left of the summer, but the current poor service makes planning trips more difficult. I even treated myself and ordered a Dales Railcard, but that was over 3 weeks ago and it still hasn't arrived yet - probably delayed with the excuse "due to Covid", same as everything else.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The timetable up to 16FEB2020 had Mon-Fri departures from Carlisle to Leeds at 0551, 0824, 1049, 1340, 1450, 1618, 1824 and 2013. The 2145 southbound to Leeds was from Ribblehead.

The Saturday timetable had Carlisle to Leeds services departing at 0754, 0927, 1049, 1340, 1450, 1618, 1824 and 2015. There were also southbound departures from Ribblehead at 0714 and 2145.

And on Sundays, there were Carlisle to Leeds services departing at 0925, 1225, 1520 (to Nottingham), 1607, 1725 and 1911.

Journey time typically a tad under three hours, and quite a few services not calling at Long Preston or Gargrave.

 

[brad465]

Agreed that the current service is rubbish. I was hoping to use the S&C line to get out into the Dales to do some walks in what we have left of the summer, but the current poor service makes planning trips more difficult. I even treated myself and ordered a Dales Railcard, but that was over 3 weeks ago and it still hasn't arrived yet - probably delayed with the excuse "due to Covid", same as everything else.

When I was staying in Penrith last year I visited the Ingleton Waterfalls trail, which in theory should be a simple train to Carlisle, change for S&C to Settle, bus to Ingleton. However the latter line's poor frequency meant I went outwards via Lancaster to Giggleswick and got the bus from there (slightly further along from Settle), where I then got the S&C back (using this line is also an attraction in itself). If it was hourly I reckon I could have done it both ways.

 

[Scottychoo]

The trouble is whilst the Govt are paying the bills there I'd no incentive for any train company to increase their services. Shocking that with people resigned to staying in the UK this year for holidays a tourist line such as this has such a poor service.

 

[Adam0984]

The introduction of the charter was instead of a full timetable over the S&C.
Unfortunately the current timetable means that the last Southbound is 1618 from Carlisle and 1649 Northbound. The full timetable should restored mid September.

 

[Flying Claret]

The timetable up to 16FEB2020 had Mon-Fri departures from Carlisle to Leeds at 0551, 0824, 1049, 1340, 1450, 1618, 1824 and 2013. The 2145 southbound to Leeds was from Ribblehead.

The Saturday timetable had Carlisle to Leeds services departing at 0754, 0927, 1049, 1340, 1450, 1618, 1824 and 2015. There were also southbound departures from Ribblehead at 0714 and 2145.

And on Sundays, there were Carlisle to Leeds services departing at 0925, 1225, 1520 (to Nottingham), 1607, 1725 and 1911.

Journey time typically a tad under three hours, and quite a few services not calling at Long Preston or Gargrave.

Out of interest, what is the point of missing out these two stations? Can't exactly make much difference on end to end journey times....

 

[Adam0984]

They're covered by the ones from Lancaster

 

[70014IronDuke]

The service wasn't hourly pre-covid - roughly two hourly, but the service ran considerably later in the day than the current timetable.

The last train south from Ribblehead was around 21:00 as I recall. The current effort is woeful.

This is really the point. Well, sort of. There is no train c 18.00 ish from Leeds to north of Settle Jcn.
This effectively destroys the S&C as a commuter route from Settle and Horton for commuting purposes into Leeds/Bradford.

At the other end, there is a bus in both morning and evening, but, a bus .... <sigh>

 

[Adam0984]

This is really the point. Well, sort of. There is no train c 18.00 ish from Leeds to north of Settle Jcn.
This effectively destroys the S&C as a commuter route from Settle and Horton for commuting purposes into Leeds/Bradford.

At the other end, there is a bus in both morning and evening, but, a bus .... <sigh>

Morning there is a 0517 Leeds to Ribblehead and 0713 back

 

[30907]

The trouble is whilst the Govt are paying the bills there I'd no incentive for any train company to increase their services. Shocking that with people resigned to staying in the UK this year for holidays a tourist line such as this has such a poor service.

Yes, I agree, but given the current crew shortages discussed on other threads, which trains would you sacrifice?

 

[Flying Claret]

They're covered by the ones from Lancaster

Fair enough, but why couldn't they be served by both services, like Hellifield?

 

[Starmill]

Fair enough, but why couldn't they be served by both services, like Hellifield?

Why would they need to be?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In the previously mentioned (up to 16FEB2020) timetable, Hellifield was also skip-stopped, albeit only on the 2013 Southbound service from Carlisle (2015 SatO).

 

[yorkie]

Yes, I agree, but given the current crew shortages discussed on other threads, which trains would you sacrifice?

Please don't answer that in this thread though as this is the wrong section for suggestions and ideas!

If anyone wishes to make any suggestions for changes to timetables this Summer please use the following thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-like-to-see-made-in-the-coming-months.207145

 

[Starmill]

In the previously mentioned (up to 16FEB2020) timetable, Hellifield was also skip-stopped, albeit only on the 2013 Southbound service from Carlisle (2015 SatO).

Indeed. And there used to be fast services too that only called at Settle and Appleby between Skipton and Carlisle, but now these take much longer so that they can stop at stations like Dent that aren't even in villages.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, I agree, but given the current crew shortages discussed on other threads, which trains would you sacrifice?

The question is, how come there is a staff shortage after 18:30 but not before ?

Why is the very last train from Lancaster to Skipton run at such a pointlessly late time so that it doesn't connect with anything at Leeds. It's as though the whole thing has been designed to be as pointlessly awkward as possible.

 

[Condor7]

The next Northern timetable change is on 14th September. The current 4 trains a day in each direction will increase to 6 a day, but as yet I have no information as to the timings I’m afraid.

 

[Adam0984]

Its madness same as other lines with reduced services and you think why?

 

[30907]

The question is, how come there is a staff shortage after 18:30 but not before ?

Why is the very last train from Lancaster to Skipton run at such a pointlessly late time so that it doesn't connect with anything at Leeds. It's as though the whole thing has been designed to be as pointlessly awkward as possible.

Given that over half the trains before 18.30 are cancelled, I'm not sure that's true.

Running the last train TO Lancaster and back isn't that silly for the likes of Gargrave and does at least give a post-peak departure ex Leeds.

Although it's a thin timetable, it does cater tolerably for commuters and for daytrippers to Morecambe/the S and C.

 

[Adam0984]

I'm surprised the S&C group havent pushed hard for the 18xx departures from Leeds and Carlisle at least

 

[yorksrob]

Given that over half the trains before 18.30 are cancelled, I'm not sure that's true.

Running the last train TO Lancaster and back isn't that silly for the likes of Gargrave and does at least give a post-peak departure ex Leeds.

Although it's a thin timetable, it does cater tolerably for commuters and for daytrippers to Morecambe/the S and C.

Commuters maybe, but daytrippers to Morecambe and the S&C ?

If you wanted to cater for daytrippers, you'd have the trains at around 20:00.

 

[30907]

Commuters maybe, but daytrippers to Morecambe and the S&C ?

If you wanted to cater for daytrippers, you'd have the trains at around 20:00.

You do longer days out than many - I think a lot of people want to be home for tea

 

[yorksrob]

You do longer days out than many - I think a lot of people want to be home for tea

Ah you see, I like to have some chips at my destination !

 

[DB]

The timetable up to 16FEB2020 had Mon-Fri departures from Carlisle to Leeds at 0551, 0824, 1049, 1340, 1450, 1618, 1824 and 2013. The 2145 southbound to Leeds was from Ribblehead.

That 20.13 is a fairly recent introduction - for many years the 18.24 was the last one to do the full line, although there was an out-and-back form Leeds to Ribblehead a bit later.

 

[yorksrob]

That 20.13 is a fairly recent introduction - for many years the 18.24 was the last one to do the full line, although there was an out-and-back form Leeds to Ribblehead a bit later.

As I recall, this one was always about 9:00. I've made use of it many times over the years.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Morning there is a 0517 Leeds to Ribblehead and 0713 back

Yes, I know that. It's good too, as far as it goes.

My point is that without a train back out of Leeds at 18.00-ish, the effectiveness of the early morning train is very limited. People will not want to be stranded at Leeds because they've missed the 16.48 - the current last departure.

This is not just commuters. What if you want to travel from Appleby to Sheffield, or Nottingham? The lack of an 18.00-ish departure from significantly detracts from the value of the early morning trains.

 

[30907]

Yes, I know that. It's good too, as far as it goes.

My point is that without a train back out of Leeds at 18.00-ish, the effectiveness of the early morning train is very limited. People will not want to be stranded at Leeds because they've missed the 16.48 - the current last departure.

This is not just commuters. What if you want to travel from Appleby to Sheffield, or Nottingham? The lack of an 18.00-ish departure from significantly detracts from the value of the early morning trains.

True. But what is the actual market beyond Long Preston (which has the later connection), and what is demand currently?
My guess would would be that most of the former commuters are WFH...

 

[Tetchytyke]

That 20.13 is a fairly recent introduction - for many years the 18.24 was the last one to do the full line, although there was an out-and-back form Leeds to Ribblehead a bit later.

The post you quoted was from Carlisle, not Leeds, and the last run from Carlisle was always a bit later.

As you say, the last one from Leeds only ever used to go to Ribblehead.

But what is the actual market beyond Long Preston (which has the later connection), and what is demand currently?

Settle? I know Giggleswick is relatively close, but still.