East Coast new livery Mk4 set at Doncaster

[DavidBusDriver]

Just passed through Doncaster on a northbound service, and noticed the set of Mk4's fully branded, looks rather nice hope someone can furnish the thread with pictures

 

[387star]

Exciting!

 

[142094]

Just passed through Doncaster on a northbound service, and noticed the set of Mk4's fully branded, looks rather nice hope someone can furnish the thread with pictures

Was just in Donny yesterday as well, no sign of them. There will be someone on fotopic who has them I suspect.

 

[caliwag]

Sounds like a complete waste of (our) money to me:-x

 

[MCR247]

I don't think it is, they actually needed a repaint, thats why they weren't done under NX

 

[starrymarkb]

Sounds like a complete waste of (our) money to me:-x

You'll find most reliveries are done on the scheduled repaint. hence when a new TOC takes over you usually get one or two trains revinyled (not repainted) for the launch and nothing happens for a while before they then work through the main fleet when stock becomes due for repaint.

 

[rail-britain]

They would have been repainted under NX, it's just they never got round to it...

Personally, it's about time to bring back "TOC specific" liveries, which worked at the beginning; ScotRail swoosh, Great Western birdie

As a travelling passenger I also see it as a waste of money that each transport company feels compelled to splatter it's own corporate image across the franchise
Equally, it makes a mockery of the term "franchise"

However, the new East Coast livery just looks too much like Virgin Trains...

 

[MCR247]

What does it look like?

 

[dk1]

Sounds like a complete waste of (our) money to me:-x

Isnt it being done in base silver that all Intercity operators will have to adhere to with just their name/logo on top in future?

 

[jon0844]

If they opted to bring back the Intercity name, and then have trains with minimal branding ('operated by First' or whatever on the side) then that would be a huge step forward.

Internally, they can still have their signs, menus and other stuff to differentiate.

 

[starrymarkb]

I thought it was just a generic livery for East Coast. With Nat-Ex still on the scene I doubt they'd keep the NX livery. Probably cheaper to get Ray Stenning to do a basic livery then to licence NX's design.

 

[dk1]

If they opted to bring back the Intercity name, and then have trains with minimal branding ('operated by First' or whatever on the side) then that would be a huge step forward.

Internally, they can still have their signs, menus and other stuff to differentiate.

How about using a swallow as a motiff with a nice red stripe & INTERCITY in itallics? Now wouldnt that be something

 

[djw1981]

this is kinda like what Scotrail is moving towards. standard scottish livery with 'operated by first' on the door. Easily chnaged, if required, in 2014.

 

[jon0844]

How about using a swallow as a motiff with a nice red stripe & INTERCITY in itallics? Now wouldnt that be something

Why not? London Buses, Scotrail and indeed many other countries that do the same, prove that you can have a recognisable brand (e.g. InterCity) that remains the same - even when operated under contract to a private company.

Seems to make so much more sense in the long run.

 

[scotsman]

this is kinda like what Scotrail is moving towards. standard scottish livery with 'operated by first' on the door. Easily chnaged, if required, in 2014.

Hope fully to:

ScotRail is operated by:

Transport Scotland

 

[starrymarkb]

Why not? London Buses, Scotrail and indeed many other countries that do the same, prove that you can have a recognisable brand (e.g. InterCity) that remains the same - even when operated under contract to a private company.

Seems to make so much more sense in the long run.

Do they though? Contracted Services in Germany use the operator's own livery, similarly in Switzerland private railways use their own livery, but operate under a common timetable and system of service categories.

 

[DVT82305]

Are there any photo's of the new set?

 

[rail-britain]

It's been at Wabtec Doncaster for three months now!
That has to be the longest single visit for a set I've ever heard of...

However I have been advised it should be back at Bounds Green by next week, ready for a Press Launch on Friday 30 July

 

[jon0844]

Do they though? Contracted Services in Germany use the operator's own livery, similarly in Switzerland private railways use their own livery, but operate under a common timetable and system of service categories.

In Sweden, buses all look the same but have the operator written on the back- usually in the same typeface as other text (so no logos and very subtle). That's certainly the case for Arriva in Stockholm and the south of Sweden. However, they do have their logo on the LED displays when not in operation, depending on the bus, while some may have the logo very small somewhere on the side. Again, very subtle - rather like London buses.

Joe Public has no real need to know who operates their bus. Over here, it's a case of each operator showing off its brand, but they change every 5-10 years anyway. Given the franchise system, it's not as if any operator (e.g. First) can get that much loyalty. If they lose the franchise tomorrow, it's not as if everyone will move to where First is now operating.

 

[Bastiaan]

In Sweden buses, trains, etc. are owned by the government. A company is only operating them, but has no influence on what livery will be used.
In other countries the operator has to buy it's own stock for the franchise, but sometimes the government demands a special region specific livery to be used. Also then the operator can't really use it's own livery, but it still has free interpretation of how this livery will be brought in practice.

Anyway, I'm very excited to see what the new East Coast livery will look like

 

[starrymarkb]

So a bit like Metrolink where the Trams are owned by GMPTE and Stagecoach just provide staff and management to operate? Similarly I believe the Sheffield Trams were sold to Stagecoach, hence why they operate in Stagecoach livery.

 

[142094]

So a bit like Metrolink where the Trams are owned by GMPTE and Stagecoach just provide staff and management to operate? Similarly I believe the Sheffield Trams were sold to Stagecoach, hence why they operate in Stagecoach livery.

Not sure about Sheffield, can't find anything to say that Stagecoach own the trams, but the SYPTE Tram Strategy says:

"The present Stagecoach Supertram system is operated through an exclusive concession agreement between South Yorkshire PTE and South Yorkshire Supertram Ltd (SYSL), a wholly owned subsidiary of Stagecoach Holdings PLC. SYSL holds the concession to operate and maintain the Stagecoach Supertram network until 31 March 2024."

 

[chic]

They would have been repainted under NX, it's just they never got round to it...

Personally, it's about time to bring back "TOC specific" liveries, which worked at the beginning; ScotRail swoosh, Great Western birdie

As a travelling passenger I also see it as a waste of money that each transport company feels compelled to splatter it's own corporate image across the franchise
Equally, it makes a mockery of the term "franchise"

However, the new East Coast livery just looks too much like Virgin Trains...

The scotrail swoosh was Horrible. I much prefer the saltire, it'll improve once more EMU's carry it.

Nationally, the long distance TOC's should be made to have a single 'Intercity' livery with a thought being given to common liveries fir local area services.

Question is- why repaint everything in a time of austerity. There's better things that the money could be spent on.

 

[dk1]

Question is- why repaint everything in a time of austerity. There's better things that the money could be spent on.

Here here !!

 

[Pumbaa]

It's been at Wabtec Doncaster for three months now!
That has to be the longest single visit for a set I've ever heard of...

However I have been advised it should be back at Bounds Green by next week, ready for a Press Launch on Friday 30 July

Running down to Bds Green either Weds or Thurs evening.

 

[starrymarkb]

Question is- why repaint everything in a time of austerity. There's better things that the money could be spent on.

Because the stock is at the point of the maintenance cycle where a repaint takes place. It costs very little to change a livery when the stock is being repainted anyway. East Coast are just using a basic paint job anyway

 

[Crossforth]

I think it will certainly be interesting to see how much it varies from the current NX/EC mix of liveries

 

[jon0844]

Seems to me that the EC trains will be painted a simple grey, as part of a required repaint. So, if people on here think that's wrong, what will the general public think (cue all the comments on newspaper forums about tax payers money being wasted etc).

It sounds like the sensible option is being taken here.. a basic paint, with minimal vinyl logos and text on top. The trains are then ready for if/when the franchise is given to a private operator in the future. I wonder, will the doors be grey too, with vinyl coverings to make them purple (and comply with the regulations on contrasting colours for the doors?)

I'd hope EC will make a point of explaining the repaint to people, and take the time to answer the likely criticism in the press. I'm assuming that in addition to the repaint they're being fixed up in terms of sealing for windows, anti-corrosion measures etc. That will keep trains running for many more years, which will save the tax payer loads more money.

 

[96tommy]

I saw a set at the yard at Doncaster the other day. I am sure it was a carriage with no paint on just the metal which was silver but it had the East Coast logo on in a dark purple

 

[mallard]

Because the stock is at the point of the maintenance cycle where a repaint takes place. It costs very little to change a livery when the stock is being repainted anyway. East Coast are just using a basic paint job anyway

Exactly, if they weren't repainted, not only would they look pretty shabby, but the corrosion protection given by the paint would degrade and once corrosion of the metal begins to set in the strength (and thus safety) of the vehicle is compromised and an expensive rebuild is required to rectify it.

Of course, the media will miss all this and spin it as a big waste of money in a time of cuts.