Advance Tickets

[38Cto15E]

I love Advance tickets because I am usually free to choose my time of travel and they are cheap, sometimes I have even seen first advance cheaper than standard.
The Advance fares seem to be gradually creeping up in price to me, do TOCs raise the fares a notch as the day of travel becomes closer or is it purely that they have a certain amount of tickets for each train and once they're gone the're gone?
As for booking 3 months ahead, that is a no no for me, too far ahead.
TIA

 

[wibble]

I love Advance tickets because I am usually free to choose my time of travel and they are cheap, sometimes I have even seen first advance cheaper than standard.
The Advance fares seem to be gradually creeping up in price to me, do TOCs raise the fares a notch as the day of travel becomes closer or is it purely that they have a certain amount of tickets for each train and once they're gone the're gone?
As for booking 3 months ahead, that is a no no for me, too far ahead.
TIA

It depends on the TOC. Some of the longer distance operators will actively manage their services so if a train starts to sell out very quickly, they'll move some of the tickets to higher priced fares - i.e. demand based pricing.

Other TOCs, e.g. SWT, have a fixed number of tickets at each price level on each train.

All TOCs will vary their range according to time of day, journey, day of the week etc. e.g. if you're travelling from London, you're more likely to find a cheap ticket at 1200 on a Wednesday than you are on a Friday.

 

[MikeWh]

There are a certain amount of tickets at each price point for each train. Once they're gone the price rises to the next price point. This will give the impression of the price rising each day as the journey gets nearer. However, if all the cheap seats haven't been sold by the afternoon before (unlikely, but it could happen) those fares would still be available.

 

[janb]

I love Advance tickets because I am usually free to choose my time of travel and they are cheap, sometimes I have even seen first advance cheaper than standard.
The Advance fares seem to be gradually creeping up in price to me, do TOCs raise the fares a notch as the day of travel becomes closer or is it purely that they have a certain amount of tickets for each train and once they're gone the're gone?
As for booking 3 months ahead, that is a no no for me, too far ahead.
TIA

Cheap fares on Virgin have certainly become more limited on anything but the most off-peak of trains, even looking 12 weeks ahead.

 

[Deerfold]

Cheap fares on Virgin have certainly become more limited on anything but the most off-peak of trains, even looking 12 weeks ahead.

Availabilty does seem to change from time to time. I used to regularly get tickets for a service arriving at London at 0906 on a Tuesday at the lowest fare GNER did (though I did have to be very quick - and I don't think they existed in high summer). At some stage National Express removed the lower tiers from their earlier services and it's been some time since I've seen a fare cheaper than £42.50 on this (or the next coulple) service causing me to almost always travel the previous evening.

A bit of a pain, but I can certainly understand why they changed it.

Oddly tickets on the 1733 and 1803 from London which I would have thought were about as peak as you can get are now much more readily available at the lower tiers.

 

[reb0118]

In my line of work I see many great value advance fares and I do think they have their place. However it seems harder to get a cheap off peak flexible return ticket these days. Without such tickets there will be a significant reduction in last minute spontaneous journeys. In truth with eg our variable weather not everybody can plan in advance.

 

[Zoe]

In my line of work I see many great value advance fares and I do think they have their place. However it seems harder to get a cheap off peak flexible return ticket these days. Without such tickets there will be a significant reduction in last minute spontaneous journeys. In truth with eg our variable weather not everybody can plan in advance.

I think this is what the TOCs want though. Limit people to travelling on specific trains to reduce overcrowding and at the same time make as much money as possible out of people that plan their journey in advance.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, it's all about control. Ideally TOC's would lieke veryone to book inadvance. They can then use price to control loadings AND revenue as the cheapo airlines do.

We have moved a long way towards this model now. But due to ther ebeing large numbers of season tickets, the number of intermediate calls made, it's difficult to treat trains purely as they would an aircraft. The exception being Eurostar, on which local journeys can't be made!

 

[Scotrail84]

I seen an advance ticket today from Shotts to Slough route London and reserved on the 1300 from waverley t KGX for £58 i though that was really cheap, would be even beter if you had a railcard!

 

[Greenback]

Cheapest fare on East Coast website as at 2015 is shown as £13.00 but availability is rather limited!

On a random date in September, I found a lot of £18.25 fares, all inclusive of the East Coast discount.

 

[rail-britain]

I suspect we are heading back to the old "Apex" fare system

A SuperApex was available between the main destinations;
London - Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Inverness, etc
These were available up to 28 days in advance, were "silly" money, and limited in numbers

Once either these were all allocated or the 28 days had passed, the Apex fare was the next cheapest, up to 7 days in advance

Once these were all allocated then the normal "Saver" was the final option

When you look at what Virgin Trains has available, the fare often starts at the "lower" Advance fare
As an example the 04:28 Glasgow - Euston starts at £49
Once the allocation (of three) is sold the next tier is £85
However take a look at the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow and there are NO advance fares anymore!
Instead the allocation is double on the 16:33 Euston - Preston
Ironically, the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow often leaves with very few passengers on it
However the allocation of advance fares on this train between Preston - Glasgow is the same as for their other services?!?

 

[Aictos]

Advance fares are interesting because of the difference of fares that can be available, for one thing if anyone wanted to travel first class on any long distance route, how long before the actual journey should they make the booking?

 

[rail-britain]

if anyone wanted to travel first class on any long distance route, how long before the actual journey should they make the booking?

I can often make such bookings the day prior to travel, the cutoff is 18:00
However, your choice can be very limited

As an example, I often travel Glasgow - Preston - Glasgow
Bookings four weeks in advance I can pretty much choose any service
However if I leave this to the day before, this is often just the 11:40 and 13:40 Glasgow - Euston (allowing for a minimum 1 hour at Preston)

 

[route101]

i got an advance on the 1630 Euston to Glasgow in April , and that was booked the day before.

 

[yorkie]

I seen an advance ticket today from Shotts to Slough route London and reserved on the 1300 from waverley t KGX for £58 i though that was really cheap, would be even beter if you had a railcard!

I think that's a bad deal.

The walk-on Off Peak Return is £108.40, so by rights the walk-on single should be half that, at £54.20. It is only the railways policy of charging excessively for walk-on off-peak singles (at typically 10p less than the return) that makes the £58 ticket seem even slightly reasonable.

Someone getting 2 x AP £58 singles is, unless they get the 0550 from Edinburgh, going to be paying more than a flexible, walk-on return!

That said, there is actually an Off Peak Single at £54.20, but it's only available if you get an Advance ticket for the other direction on a Virgin service. This is one of the Off Peak Singles that is not available singly. This is due to "simplification". Simple, huh?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I think that's a bad deal.

The walk-on Off Peak Return is £108.40, so by rights the walk-on single should be half that, at £54.20. It is only the railways policy of charging excessively for walk-on off-peak singles (at typically 10p less than the return) that makes the £58 ticket seem even slightly reasonable.

Someone getting 2 x AP £58 singles is, unless they get the 0550 from Edinburgh, going to be paying more than a flexible, walk-on return!

That said, there is actually an Off Peak Single at £54.20, but it's only available if you get an Advance ticket for the other direction on a Virgin service. This is one of the Off Peak Singles that is not available singly. This is due to "simplification". Simple, huh?

Fares have never been "simple" as such. In BR days we had Super Apex, Apex, Super Advance, Holidaymaker, SuperSaver, Saver, to name but a few. All with different booking deadlines, fares, restrictions, refund rules etc. And don't forget blue days and white days etc. The only thing was that you could only generally buy from a station or certain travel agents. So if you lived somewhere without a convenients staffed station your choice of tickets was more limited.

Ok, I don't like how complicated they can be now - but they have never been just as simple as people make out.

 

[Greenback]

I'm sure I remember when the main return ticket types were just a day return, a weekend return, a monthly return and an ordinary return (valid three months). I think this was prior to 1983 or 1984.

In the old days, of course, there were always things like workmen's tickets(!) too, but looking at European railways, no one seems to have the huge numbers of different fares, or the massive differences in price between them, as we do!

 

[moonrakerz]

Other TOCs, e.g. SWT, have a fixed number of tickets at each price level on each train.

Whilst not disagreeing with you statement, I feel that there is considerable "tweaking" of these "fixed" numbers !

I use an SWT service to Waterloo on Advance tickets. Until recently I could get a ticket for £11.20, sometimes right up to a couple of days beforehand. Now to get that fare you really are talking about 8 - 10 wks in advance.
What is interesting is that a new fare "band" of £19 has suddenly appeared on the services where the £11 fare was commonplace - with the same availability as the £11 one USED to be.
We are going to London on Aug 21st, no £11 tickets available since a couple of weeks back - the Ford is going to get a run out ! SWT's loss !

Still - I won't have any drunken football fans to worry about - unless my wife hits the Shiraz too hard !

 

[87031]

The fares system is so confusing to even people in the know but the general public must get ripped off all the time. I have been looking at travel on Wrexham and Shropshire in September and when i search i get crazy high fares of £52 Marylebone-Wrexham however if i search say a week tommorow on the same 2 trains i get fares of £15 and £19??

Surely that cant be right? Or is it just supply and demand if the train further away sells quick then they dont offer reduced fares?

I understand the rules of busy times like Fridays and trains between 4-6pm but not the results i got there

 

[OwlMan]

The fares system is so confusing to even people in the know but the general public must get ripped off all the time. I have been looking at travel on Wrexham and Shropshire in September and when i search i get crazy high fares of £52 Marylebone-Wrexham however if i search say a week tommorow on the same 2 trains i get fares of £15 and £19??

Surely that cant be right? Or is it just supply and demand if the train further away sells quick then they dont offer reduced fares?

I understand the rules of busy times like Fridays and trains between 4-6pm but not the results i got there

Are you looking at weekends in September - because there dors not appear to any tickets for W&S yet. (probably still waiting for NR timetables)

The only fares that came up on weekends were virgin fares via Crewe.

Peter

 

[87031]

yeah it was september on trainline booking engine

 

[route101]

can you still get train tickets at travel agents ? ive never seen the 17.90 glasgow to london advance fare . Always 30 pound and above . Ha my fare from belgrade to sofia was 20 euro .

 

[rail-britain]

can you still get train tickets at travel agents ? ive never seen the 17.90 glasgow to london advance fare . Always 30 pound and above

Yes, you can purchase train tickets from some Travel Agents, but many don't advertise it as the margins are far lower than air fares

You must have seen a £17.90 Glasgow to London fare, to be referring to it
Where did you see this?
The only fare under £20 I could find was a Child fare; 05:40 Glasgow at £17.50

 

[wibble]

Whilst not disagreeing with you statement, I feel that there is considerable "tweaking" of these "fixed" numbers !

I use an SWT service to Waterloo on Advance tickets. Until recently I could get a ticket for £11.20, sometimes right up to a couple of days beforehand.

The last time they made any big changes was for the December 09 timetable change....