TFW Pacer withdrawals

[Cardiff123]

With the 230's starting to be delivered and the 769's starting testing again soon I think the Pacers days are numbered. Releases 150's and 153's to take over their duties. Would imagine they will go in the December changes, some before that

This depends how widely the 769s are used. If they are just used on a few peak time morning and even runs to and from Rhymney like the 37+Mk2s were I can't see how the 769s can replace all of the Pacers

 

[43096]

This depends how widely the 769s are used. If they are just used on a few peak time morning and even runs to and from Rhymney like the 37+Mk2s were I can't see how the 769s can replace all of the Pacers

With 9 769s, they aren’t just going to be doing peak Rhymneys.

 

[Parallel]

Hopefully,Cardiff will become the last haven for Pacer enthusiasts.

Exeter may also hold that title, with GWR’s examples!

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Hopefully,Cardiff will become the last haven for Pacer enthusiasts.

Do such people exist? I mean, I'll be a bit nostalgic when the last ones have gone but it's hard to imagine anyone is enthusiastic about them.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Do such people exist? I mean, I'll be a bit nostalgic when the last ones have gone but it's hard to imagine anyone is enthusiastic about them.

We certainly do! Not all of us have the circumstances to enthuse fully (as in go 100 miles + before we see one and then get on as many as possible), but we are certainly around

 

[Chris217]

Plenty of enthusiasts taking photos
and videos of them in Cardiff Central on my last visit
last year,but that was when the withdrawal date was 31/12/19.
I dont think TfW were ever that keen on sending them off for scrap whilst struggling with stock shortages and
the continued delay with 769s.
Atleast TfW operated a Pacer rail tour
So they know there are enthusiasts who like them too.
Strange how even the 1 142 that was withdrawn got repaired and put back into service even though their demise was
(So called) imminent?
I think(my own personal opinion)
Pacers have actually been a good train
on the Valley Lines.
I will miss them for sure when they go.

 

[Versa274]

Plenty of enthusiasts taking photos
and videos of them in Cardiff Central on my last visit
last year,but that was when the withdrawal date was 31/12/19.
I dont think TfW were ever that keen on sending them off for scrap whilst struggling with stock shortages and
the continued delay with 769s.
Atleast TfW operated a Pacer rail tour
So they know there are enthusiasts who like them too.
Strange how even the 1 142 that was withdrawn got repaired and put back into service even though their demise was
(So called) imminent?
I think(my own personal opinion)
Pacers have actually been a good train
on the Valley Lines.
I will miss them for sure when they go.

I will not miss them as these trains have been spinning it out for far too long. Im glad David Cameron said around 6 years ago "they are going" The railways need to move on from saving the branch lines era.Ticket prices go up so we should have better stock and imfrastructure on our railways although in my view the dc class 411-438 I favoured over pacers anyday and even some modern stock.

 

[Jez]

Im sure many pacer enthusiasts exist. However im definitely not one of them! We have been stuck with these units for long enough. At least they don't seem to be used on regular Cardiff /Swansea to Pembroke Dock/Fishguard services like they were during the early part of the year, before lockdown. Probably down to reduced services more than anything, but any news on if they need to be attached to another unit to operate post July? i.e a 150 or 153.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Im sure many pacer enthusiasts exist. However im definitely not one of them! We have been stuck with these units for long enough. At least they don't seem to be used on regular Cardiff /Swansea to Pembroke Dock/Fishguard services like they were during the early part of the year, before lockdown. Probably down to reduced services more than anything, but any news on if they need to be attached to another unit to operate post July? i.e a 150 or 153.

Not at the moment. 143608+142085 are out as a pair at the moment and also they've regularly worked with a non-PRM-modified 153.

 

[PHILIPE]

Not at the moment. 143608+142085 are out as a pair at the moment and also they've regularly worked with a non-PRM-modified 153.

They are OK until 31st July under the terms of the dispensation agreement in December. Haven't heard of any extension or terms yet beyond that date

 

[ValleyLines142]

They are OK until 31st July under the terms of the dispensation agreement in December. Haven't heard of any extension or terms yet beyond that date

To work alone? Because during early stages of the COVID-19 timetable they were almost exclusively working with 150/153s.

 

[PHILIPE]

To work alone? Because during early stages of the COVID-19 timetable they were almost exclusively working with 150/153s.

That was not connected to the agreement but possibly to try and comply with life afterwards.

 

[ValleyLines142]

That was not connected to the agreement but possibly to try and comply with life afterwards.

Fair enough.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

They are OK until 31st July under the terms of the dispensation agreement in December. Haven't heard of any extension or terms yet beyond that date

They've been extended until end of year

 

[PHILIPE]

They've been extended until end of year

Have you got a link to that please ? If so they can just carry on unfettered.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Have you got a link to that please ? If so they can just carry on unfettered.

Sorry, I can't provide a link to something I've been told

 

[Cardiff123]

Aren't all the Pacer derogations released on the DfT section of the gov.uk website somewhere?

 

[PHILIPE]

Aren't all the Pacer derogations released on the DfT section of the gov.uk website somewhere?

Yes. But they only cover until 31st July at the moment. It says updated on 20th June but it is still the originals appearing.

 

[PHILIPE]

Yes. But they only cover until 31st July at the moment. It says updated on 20th June but it is still the originals appearing.

Have had another dig and found mention and no more of a new application so perhaps DFT leaving until last minute before issuing letters although the TOCs would have been notified

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Sorry, I can't provide a link to something I've been told

Here we go.........

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1288430283264610305?s=19

 

[PHILIPE]

Here we go.........

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1288430283264610305?s=19

That answers that so we assume no restrictions such as having to be attached to a PRM Complianr unit, although it seems TFW have been doing this if possible.

 

[Cardiff123]

Anyone want to place a bet on rolling 6 month Pacer derogation extensions being given to TfW until the CVL are electrified?

 

[Bob Price]

9 four carriage 769's will get rid of 18 Pacers Then 150's will be released off the Borderlands by the 230's. Ads the 153's and I can't see them lasting beyond the end of the year.

 

[sd0733]

9 four carriage 769's will get rid of 18 Pacers Then 150's will be released off the Borderlands by the 230's. Ads the 153's and I can't see them lasting beyond the end of the year.

AFAIK 9 of the 153s (the EMT and Anglia ones) are also on derogations though as they are not due to get PRM mods.
So in effect if the 769s see off 18 Pacers the internal cascade caused by the 230s needs to replace 12 Pacers and 9 153s. I dont see how those numbers stack up at all!

 

[Bob Price]

Some of the 153's have been PRM modified and are due to stay. Not sure how many.

 

[sd0733]

Some of the 153's have been PRM modified and are due to stay. Not sure how many.

Yes all of the original ATW fleet and the additionals from GWR are done or in the process of being done. There are 13 staying in total out of 22 with these 9 plus the 30 pacers means 39 units albeit all lower capacity than the replacements leaving the fleet.

 

[Cardiff123]

9 four carriage 769's will get rid of 18 Pacers Then 150's will be released off the Borderlands by the 230's. Ads the 153's and I can't see them lasting beyond the end of the year.

Yes, the 769s will be fantastic for capacity, but they have to be tested, build up FFR mileage, and finally have drivers trained and passed to drive them! Seeing 769008 out last week was great, but nothing has happened since.
The glacial pace of progress with the 769s is painful.

 

[Bob Price]

The glacial pace of progress with the 769s is painful.

Agree 100%

 

[PHILIPE]

AFAIK 9 of the 153s (the EMT and Anglia ones) are also on derogations though as they are not due to get PRM mods.
So in effect if the 769s see off 18 Pacers the internal cascade caused by the 230s needs to replace 12 Pacers and 9 153s. I dont see how those numbers stack up at all!

Didn't the 170s count ?

 

[Cardiff123]

I can't see the 9 EMT & GA x 153s being very 'temporary' tbh, as them going is dependent on the 9 x 769s being in passenger service as well.

I may be suprised and the 769s might started multiple daily testing & training runs 5 days a week next week. But i'm not holding my breath or I'll end up in A&E