Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[Bantamzen]

I'm puzzled by testing. My partner and some friends picked up 6 tests from a hospital, sent them back unopened and all have been informed they're positive. What's that all about?

That sounds like a procedural error - why did you do that, though?

If that's a procedural error, its a pretty bad one. Six unused tests all showing as positive? I would expect unused tests to be destroyed, but were they possibly passed on for other people's tests and the details not updated? In this case some people would have been wandering around as positive without knowing it.

And if not this, then what?

They did it to research the claims that positive test results are being artificially inflated. Claims I thought were ludicrous but results would indicate otherwise. Even more surreal for one of the group was that an Instagram post about the experiment resulted in her account being shut down. I'm the greatest of sceptics of conspiracy theories but struggle to explain their results.

Despite that, most areas are heading for a week of zero positives as the coronaphobes rub their hands with glee as the freedom to show our face is about to be taken from us.

There have been sporadic reports of accounts being closed for various covid reasons, and to be fair most have been around ridiculous claims being made. However there have been reports of people's accounts / posts being deleted where there has simply been some questioning about the approach of governments, scientific evidence etc. Its possible that these may have received multiple complaints from people objecting to them, which may be the case with your friend's account.

 

[talldave]

There have been sporadic reports of accounts being closed for various covid reasons, and to be fair most have been around ridiculous claims being made. However there have been reports of people's accounts / posts being deleted where there has simply been some questioning about the approach of governments, scientific evidence etc. Its possible that these may have received multiple complaints from people objecting to them, which may be the case with your friend's account.

And this is the worrying aspect, democracy has gone out the window. The Coronaphobes and Facebook Furloughs have a pack hunting approach against quite reasonable challenges of government information or misinformation. It's only by people doing their own inquisitive digging that the lies get called out. Lies about testing targets, lies about death statistics, lies by BTP officers - where does it end. I've always been proud and patriotic about our country, but this year has left me disillusioned by what our country has become and the way we're being treated as idiots by government. The only positive is that had Labour been in power it would have been so much worse!!

 

[DB]

And this is the worrying aspect, democracy has gone out the window. The Coronaphobes and Facebook Furloughs have a pack hunting approach against quite reasonable challenges of government information or misinformation. It's only by people doing their own inquisitive digging that the lies get called out. Lies about testing targets, lies about death statistics, lies by BTP officers - where does it end. I've always been proud and patriotic about our country, but this year has left me disillusioned by what our country has become and the way we're being treated as idiots by government. The only positive is that had Labour been in power it would have been so much worse!!

I think it also highlights the risks of many people getting all of their news and opinions through a small number of social media sites. Fifteen, even ten, years ago this didn't happen and people would look at various sites and blogs, but now it's increasingly seen through a single lens (or two or three at most), and reinforced by all their 'friends' being in the same echo chamber. It also makes it possible for them to censor views which they don't like by all hitting the report button, which in many cases will lead to posts being removed without any actual person considering the issue. With independent websites, that can't happen as it's very difficult to get private sites taken down and needs a really good reason - and 'I don't agree with what's on there' would never be enough to get any action taken.

 

[DB]

I've just had a wander into town. More masks than last week (when there were hardly any), but still a minority.

One thing I did notice though - several people in cars on their own, wearing masks. Why?

 

[duncanp]

And now The Telegraph are reporting that face masks muzzles are to be made compulsory in all enclosed public spaces in England, with the exception of pubs, cafes and restaurants.

Access Restricted

Sadly this has a sinking inevitability about it.

Not that that will satisfy the maskivists - oh no.

Cue complaints about "why can't I go into a pub, I don't feel safe if people aren't wearing masks muzzles?"

And then they will want masks muzzles worn everywhere outside your front door.

And then probably indoors as well.

And then compulsory hazmat suits for everyone.....

The Transport Secretary has hinted that the Government may extend mandatory face masks measures to include all "enclosed public spaces", with the exception of pubs, cafes and restaurants.

Speaking to Sky News this morning, Grant Shapps suggested that eating and drinking establishments are exempt from the rules because "many other social distancing measures" are in place.

But he added that "in general the rule is wear a face covering in any enclosed space."

"We will also be making it mandatory in enclosed public spaces [but] because you eat in places like pubs and restaurants you don't need to wear one there," Mr Shapps added.

But the Minister got into a slight tangle over dates. The compulsory face mask rule is due to come into effect on Friday 24th - Mr Shapps mistakenly said the start date for restrictions was the 25th July.

"The simple rule is from this weekend start to wear face coverings," the Transport Secretary said.

 

[MikeWM]

The only positive is that had Labour been in power it would have been so much worse!!

While I suspect Labour would have tried to be even more authoritarian than the current lot, the resistance to Government diktats would be far more organised and a lot stronger, and it is likely that a lot of the mainstream media would be in opposition too. We may actually have been in a better place as a result.

 

[45107]

I've just had a wander into town. More masks than last week (when there were hardly any), but still a minority.

One thing I did notice though - several people in cars on their own, wearing masks. Why?

Whilst I support the wearing of masks on public transport and in a shop, I have noticed single occupancy cars with the driver wearing a mask and think WTF.

 

[bramling]

Whilst I support the wearing of masks on public transport and in a shop, I have noticed single occupancy cars with the driver wearing a mask and think WTF.

Probably the same ones who turn into a quivering wreck if they have to pass anyone in the street. There’s still plenty of this breed around. Alleyways are a favourite when they see just how far they can press themselves in to a brick wall.

 

[DB]

Probably the same ones who turn into a quivering wreck if they have to pass anyone in the street. There’s still plenty of this breed around. Alleyways are a favourite when they see just how far they can press themselves in to a brick wall.

Surely alleyways are too dangerous now, and there needs to be a campaign to demolish the buildings on one side of any thoroughfare where you can't keep at least 2m from people coming the other way.

Perhaps I shouldn't say this though- it might give some of them ideas...

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

And now The Telegraph are reporting that face masks muzzles are to be made compulsory in all enclosed public spaces in England, with the exception of pubs, cafes and restaurants.

Access Restricted

Sadly this has a sinking inevitability about it.

Not that that will satisfy the maskivists - oh no.

Cue complaints about "why can't I go into a pub, I don't feel safe if people aren't wearing masks muzzles?"

And then they will want masks muzzles worn everywhere outside your front door.

And then probably indoors as well.

And then compulsory hazmat suits for everyone.....

Awfully predictable, isn't it? What's next? In pubs, cafes and restaurants too, putting your mask on in between sips? Just to make extra sure that your hands are covered in whatever stuff you breathe out? Where does it end...

The government has been creeping ever more towards this nonsensical kind of authoritarianism. One step at a time and even the most fervent opponents can't stop it.

 

[JamesT]

I've just had a wander into town. More masks than last week (when there were hardly any), but still a minority.

One thing I did notice though - several people in cars on their own, wearing masks. Why?

Presumably they're following the advice that you should avoid fiddling with your mask, so you put your mask on when you go out and only take it off when you're back home, rather than putting it on and taking it off when you get out of your car?

 

[DB]

Presumably they're following the advice that you should avoid fiddling with your mask, so you put your mask on when you go out and only take it off when you're back home, rather than putting it on and taking it off when you get out of your car?

But if wearing it for that length of time, it's likely to get damp, which also renders it useless...

 

[Essan]

Interesting (?) observation: Last week at least a third of customers in my shop were wearing masks. This week, hardly anyone .... Friday will be interesting.

 

[DB]

Interesting (?) observation: Last week at least a third of customers in my shop were wearing masks. This week, hardly anyone .... Friday will be interesting.

Do you find that it varies by time of day? I've noticed when doing the shopping in supermarkets that the later in the day it is, the fewer people wearing masks (this has been the case for months, and still seems pretty much the same - hardly anyone was wearing one in Tesco at about 9pm yesterday).

 

[DB]

While I suspect Labour would have tried to be even more authoritarian than the current lot, the resistance to Government diktats would be far more organised and a lot stronger, and it is likely that a lot of the mainstream media would be in opposition too. We may actually have been in a better place as a result.

It's difficult to say - in the US it seems to have become a political issue with mask-promotion being more associated with the left, but in this country there doesn't seem to be any split along left/right lines.

 

[Essan]

Do you find that it varies by time of day? I've noticed when doing the shopping in supermarkets that the later in the day it is, the fewer people wearing masks (this has been the case for months, and still seems pretty much the same - hardly anyone was wearing one in Tesco at about 9pm yesterday).

No, can't say there's any difference on time of day (I am only open 9.30am to 4pm atm though) nor even with age.

 

[adc82140]

How about having a "mask hour" in shops, where everyone has to wear masks, and staff wear hazmat suits, then at all other times business as usual with 2m distancing. Then everyone is catered for.

 

[Yew]

While I suspect Labour would have tried to be even more authoritarian than the current lot, the resistance to Government diktats would be far more organised and a lot stronger, and it is likely that a lot of the mainstream media would be in opposition too. We may actually have been in a better place as a result.

Indeed, if Jeremy Corbyn had copied the techniques of Authoritarian Chinese Communists, I don't think the Sun and Daily Mail would have gone for it!

 

[farleigh]

How about having a "mask hour" in shops, where everyone has to wear masks, and staff wear hazmat suits, then at all other times business as usual with 2m distancing. Then everyone is catered for.

Now that seems like a sensible compromise to me. Wouldn't have to be just an hour but it would cater for all. Can't fault the idea.

 

[Yew]

Now that seems like a sensible compromise to me. Wouldn't have to be just an hour but it would cater for all. Can't fault the idea.

That would rely on the Masktivists not demanding that their decisions are enforced on others to "save lives". However when you ask them for predictions of how many lives they will save, they suddenly go quiet...

 

[DB]

Now that seems like a sensible compromise to me. Wouldn't have to be just an hour but it would cater for all. Can't fault the idea.

The trouble is, those who want to impose masks don't like any sort of compromise - "we must all wear masks all the time to keep people safe"...

 

[45107]

The trouble is, those who want to impose masks don't like any sort of compromise - "we must all wear masks all the time to keep people safe"...

I would suggest that that is a minority view. I certainly have not met anyone with that view nor seen it stated, but then again, I do not use Facebook or Twitter.
As I have stated elsewhere, I am in favour of masks in certain environments but wearing in all settings is far too extreme and over the top.
My view is that masks should not be used in isolation to help prevent the virus spread. There are other measures that in isolation are just as ineffective but combined provide a means of reducing the risk.

 

[Puffing Devil]

How about having a "mask hour" in shops, where everyone has to wear masks, and staff wear hazmat suits, then at all other times business as usual with 2m distancing. Then everyone is catered for.

Apart from the shop staff who benefit from the protection of the customers wearing masks?

 

[DB]

Apart from the shop staff who benefit from the protection of the customers wearing masks?

As repeatedly pointed out, there appears to be no hard evidence for this claimed benefit.

 

[BJames]

Apart from the shop staff who benefit from the protection of the customers wearing masks?

I'm not convinced that all the staff feel the same way. Not one wearing a mask today when I went into the supermarket. Not exactly distancing themselves from customers either. Customer facing staff are at the checkouts behind the screen, which is the mitigation, and thus masks shouldn't be needed. I agree with the above but would probably go more for "no masks needed after 3pm". Allows enough time for both groups of people to do what they want.

 

[Puffing Devil]

As repeatedly pointed out, there appears to be no hard evidence for this claimed benefit.

Have a read of this CNN article which references this study, which further references this study on mask effectiveness.

CNN: Three simple acts can stop Covid-19 outbreaks, study finds
If people washed their hands regularly, wore masks, and kept their social distance from each other, these three simple behaviors could stop most all of the Covid-19 pandemic, even without a vaccine or additional treatments, according to a new study.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'm not convinced that all the staff feel the same way.

Have you asked them all?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Have you asked them all?

I'm sure it's fairly obvious that if the staff thought there was any real benefit to them being worn, they'd be wearing them?

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'm sure it's fairly obvious that if the staff thought there was any real benefit to them being worn, they'd be wearing them?

The benefit of you wearing a mask is for them.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The benefit of you wearing a mask is for them.

The benefit of them wearing a mask is for me.

"The safety of our customers is paramount", etc, no?