Should EMR's Electrics makes its stop at St.Albans city?

[Prestige15]

Just curious, Should EMR's London - Corby makes a calling point at St. Albans once is fully run by EMU? Considering the Station has a higher rail passenger usage compared all other stations it calls.

 

[brad465]

Considering Thameslink run either non-stop to/from St Albans, or at least calling only at West Hampstead Thameslink on the way, would EMR calling there be revenue abstraction, unless it was pick up/set down only in the same way Avanti WC use Watford Jct?

 

[jfisher21]

Yes the service is frequent enough from St Albans. Stopping there would mean less seats for longer distance passengers.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

No need.

At high-peak, from memory, St Albans gets 8tph fast to London (?) all going direct into the City and London Bridge.

For people in Luton, there will be tangible difference in journey time as they wont be slow lines to Harpenden, extra stops (etc.), and therefore for Bedford and Luton it will be a nice alternative if "going up to London" and using onward Tube services to the West End.

St Albans would just end up swallowing space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see any justification for stops south of Bedford other than Luton/Airport Parkway/Bedford to be honest, it's replacing a InterCity service and should remain fast.

 

[bramling]

Just curious, Should EMR's London - Corby makes a calling point at St. Albans once is fully run by EMU? Considering the Station has a higher rail passenger usage compared all other stations it calls.

10 tph off-peak and many more in the peaks to and from London is good enough I’d say.

Unless there’s a large demand for direct journeys from St Albans to Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby, which I suspect there isn’t, then I’d say the answer is no to this one.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

At peak time, one could even argue for it not calling at Luton, but calling at the Airport, as Luton has some Thameslink stuff that doesn't stop at Airport.

Indeed, the very limited southbound AM and northbound PM traffic that does operate to/from Luton 'proper' can easily be accommodated by changing passengers at Airport or Bedford.

 

[MatthewRead]

Intercity trains did call there until 1990 when the both 319 batches were in full service.

 

[Prestige15]

No need.

At high-peak, from memory, St Albans gets 8tph fast to London (?) all going direct into the City and London Bridge.

For people in Luton, there will be tangible difference in journey time as they wont be slow lines to Harpenden, extra stops (etc.), and therefore for Bedford and Luton it will be a nice alternative if "going up to London" and using onward Tube services to the West End.

St Albans would just end up swallowing space.

Fair enough, I only though of this mainly because it has higher passengers usage compare to Luton, Bedford etc

 

[Bald Rick]

No justification, and I say that as a resident!

It would also be difficult to timetable.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

St Albans gets 8 (?) fast, 2 (?) semi-fast and 4 (?) stopping trains to St Pancras and the Core. Some modal shift through Farringdon for Crossrail might take place in future, making St Pancras less relevant anyway.

Whilst passenger usage is high, admittedly the level of capacity with lots of fast 12-car trains and short standing times (with toilets, WiFi and such) means you could hardly complain in any event...

 

[London Trains]

St Albans gets 8 (?) fast, 2 (?) semi-fast and 4 (?) stopping trains to St Pancras and the Core.

8 fast, 4 semi fast and 4 slow during the peak
4 fast, 2 semi fast and 4 slow off peak

 

[AM9]

8 fast, 4 semi fast and 4 slow during the peak
4 fast, 2 semi fast and 4 slow off peak

As a resident, I would say that there is no justification in stopping the Corby trains in the peak direction. However as one who has also travelled north on the MML, the northbound options from St Albans are quite messy and can involve 3 trains to get beyond Leicester. Stopping a class 360 EMU outside peak flows at St Albans with 'u/d' restrictions is possibly less disruptive than piling passengers onto longer distance configured stock at either of the Luton stations. The 1/3, 2/3 doors enable short dwells and there are likely more seats available through to Bedford or even Kettering on those trains than the EM IC style trains.

 

[Jozhua]

As a resident, I would say that there is no justification in stopping the Corby trains in the peak direction. However as one who has also travelled north on the MML, the northbound options from St Albans are quite messy and can involve 3 trains to get beyond Leicester. Stopping a class 360 EMU outside peak flows at St Albans with 'u/d' restrictions is possibly less disruptive than piling passengers onto longer distance configured stock at either of the Luton stations. The 1/3, 2/3 doors enable short dwells and there are likely more seats available through to Bedford or even Kettering on those trains than the EM IC style trains.

That seems sensible. I feel like travelling northbound on a route covered by intercity trains from London can be suprisingly hard!

Lot of it is based around getting to/from London quickly, not necessarily intermediate stops, even if the infrastructure is there.

 

[Western Lord]

Of course, back in the day, St. Albans had hourly MML semi-fasts to Leicester, continuing after cross platform exchange with the following fast to Derby or Nottingham (with the fast doing the opposite before continuing to Sheffield), thus St. Albans had, effectively, hourly service to all MML principal stations to Sheffield.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

The alternative is a sensible compromise in which the “Airport Express” to Corby doesn’t stop at Luton northbound am peak or southbound pm peak and then the Nottingham services have a Luton call attached. That way St Albans to Leicester, East Mids, Loughborough is easy; Sheffield needing a second change.

Luton can act like Watford or Milton Keynes in that northbound am and southbound pm a few extra trains stop as it serves a large area and has reasonable parking for people to “turn up and go” and do a day of business in the likes of Sheffield or Nottingham.

 

[edwin_m]

I suggested to the MML consultation that one of the Nottingham trains should continue to stop at the Airport Parkway. This would help with the relatively poor international access from the East Midlands, and reduce the number of changes for a wide range of journeys between stations either side including St Albans.

 

[AM9]

I suggested to the MML consultation that one of the Nottingham trains should continue to stop at the Airport Parkway. This would help with the relatively poor international access from the East Midlands, and reduce the number of changes for a wide range of journeys between stations either side including St Albans.

That would increase the load of the Nottingham trains from Parkway northwards. If passengers could take the Corby trains from these stations and change at Bedford, Wellingborough or Kettering, the Nottinham (i.e. long distance slows) would be able to remove some of their stops, which because they are IC layout and geared for 125mph, would give a greater overall journey time reduction than on the 360s. It would also mean that passengers originating from such north of London railheads as St Albans, Parkway and even Bedford get a same platform change.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

That would increase the load of the Nottingham trains from Parkway northwards. If passengers could take the Corby trains from these stations and change at Bedford, Wellingborough or Kettering, the Nottinham (i.e. long distance slows) would be able to remove some of their stops, which because they are IC layout and geared for 125mph, would give a greater overall journey time reduction than on the 360s. It would also mean that passengers originating from such north of London railheads as St Albans, Parkway and even Bedford get a same platform change.

I don’t quite buy that. The future 807s or whatever they are will be very good at getting out of Luton and up to 125mph.

The suggestion I had made to the EMR franchise consultation was that 12 car 360s at peak should be doing Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton, St Pancras; with Nottingham stuff doing Kettering, Wellingborough, Luton Airport, St Pancras.

Off-peak I’d still go so far as to say it should be broadly similar except the Wellingborough call taken out of the Nottinghams. That way you’re getting a decent interchange at Kettering (albeit not same platform), and Luton folk aren’t massively disadvantaged either way.

The main issue is people going to/from Luton Airport being stuffed at Kettering, especially at rush hour, potentially already changed once at Leicester off a Sheffield / Derby and being shafted with wedged commuter trains. Indeed, the benefit of the Nottingham trains calling at peak instead is they can be set down only southbound and accordingly pick-up only northbound. In harmony with the express Thameslink stuff (pretty sure they still do a half-hourly St Pancras, St Albans, Harpenden, Luton, Flitwick, Bedford) the 360s then aren’t overwhelmed, and when the new station opens south of Bedford, if the path isn’t needing to take into account an Airport stop it can stop there also.

 

[AM9]

I don’t quite buy that. The future 807s or whatever they are will be very good at getting out of Luton and up to 125mph.

The suggestion I had made to the EMR franchise consultation was that 12 car 360s at peak should be doing Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton, St Pancras; with Nottingham stuff doing Kettering, Wellingborough, Luton Airport, St Pancras.

Off-peak I’d still go so far as to say it should be broadly similar except the Wellingborough call taken out of the Nottinghams. That way you’re getting a decent interchange at Kettering (albeit not same platform), and Luton folk aren’t massively disadvantaged either way.

The main issue is people going to/from Luton Airport being stuffed at Kettering, especially at rush hour, potentially already changed once at Leicester off a Sheffield / Derby and being shafted with wedged commuter trains. Indeed, the benefit of the Nottingham trains calling at peak instead is they can be set down only southbound and accordingly pick-up only northbound. ...

I was specifically talking about the counter peak flow services, i.e. the Corby electrics are unlikely to be packed heading northbound at 09:30 in the morning, much as they won't be at 18:00 going south.

... In harmony with the express Thameslink stuff (pretty sure they still do a half-hourly St Pancras, St Albans, Harpenden, Luton, Flitwick, Bedford) the 360s then aren’t overwhelmed, and when the new station opens south of Bedford, if the path isn’t needing to take into account an Airport stop it can stop there also.

The 08:59(M-F) is the last northbound train that doesn't stop at all stations north to Bedford. Harpenden gets the 09:43 and 10:13 that skip Leagrave and Harlington, but neither stop at St Albans.