Flexible ticketing - Southeastern TOC

[red star]

FYI
Kent MPs have collectively written to @Se_Railway calling for them to introduce flexible ticketing for commuters with part office part WFH arrangements https://t.co/E5zQQbPEfe

https://twitter.com/tracey_crouch/status/1285214438153388032?s=19

 

[Wallsendmag]

Dft has already asked all TOCs to look at this

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

FYI
Kent MPs have collectively written to @Se_Railway calling for them to introduce flexible ticketing for commuters with part office part WFH arrangements https://t.co/E5zQQbPEfe

https://twitter.com/tracey_crouch/status/1285214438153388032?s=19

View attachment 81002

Seems a bit pointless writing to Southeastern. It's not within their remit at the moment with the EMAs being as they are. It's something the DfT needs to tell them to do, fund, and sign off on. They should be lobbying the Secretary of State.

And really they could just have said "we think the taxpayer should subsidise commuter journeys for middle and upper class people in the southeast more than it already does", if they were being straightforward and honest. Not that it's necessarily wrong to do so in view of the environmental benefits of that over increased car usage.

Still, it's a nice bit of free PR to prop up an ailing government's image, so that the MPs can be seen to be doing something.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Seems a bit pointless writing to Southeastern. It's not within their remit at the moment with the EMAs being as they are. It's something the DfT needs to tell them to do, fund, and sign off on. They should be lobbying the Secretary of State.

And really they could just have said "we think the taxpayer should subsidise commuter journeys for middle and upper class people in the southeast more than it already does", if they were being straightforward and honest. Not that it's necessarily wrong to do so in view of the environmental benefits of that over increased car usage.

Still, it's a nice bit of free PR to prop up an ailing government's image, so that the MPs can be seen to be doing something.

Um... The one of the least subsidised part of the UK railway system happens to be in the SouthEast, it won't cost the company/Government anything all it'll mean is the Key ITSO card will be loaded with a pre defined number of returns and then you'll have XX number of months to use them with a 10% - 15% discount when you load them

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Here is the report
ORR data 2018-2019
And here is the spreadsheet for the last 10 years showing each TOCs contributions and subsidies
ORR TOC Spreadsheet

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Um... The one of the least subsidised part of the UK railway system happens to be in the SouthEast, it won't cost the company/Government anything all it'll mean is the Key ITSO card will be loaded with a pre defined number of returns and then you'll have XX number of months to use them with a 10% - 15% discount when you load them

Yes, your report shows that Southeastern was subsidised to the tune of 7.6p per passenger km during the 2018-19 year. And that is with the sky-high fares the MPs describe. So, quite logically, if people start expecting the company to offer the same percentage discount as a season ticket offers for 5 day commutes, for a 2 or 3 day commute, then the subsidy will be even higher. It's not about the cost of implementing the fares themselves, that is minimal. It's about the financial implications of allowing season ticket discounts on less than 5 day a week commutes.

Of course, the above figure can be thrown out of the window with current passenger loadings being at most a fifth of normal. So the subsidy is currently at least 38p per passenger km, and unless rail succeeds in attracting back passengers it will remain at that sort of level.

A 10-15% discount on carnet returns won't cut the mustard. The discount will have to be a lot more than that. On many season ticket routes, a season ticket costs 3-4× a day return. So you would need to offer 20-40% discounts to make carnets equivalent.

 

[MotCO]

Instead of Carnets (and we know the problems they can cause), could there be an intelligent Oyster-type ticket which calculates a discount depending upon the number of times a week the ticket is used? Used one or two days a week it would charge the normal day ticket rate, used five times a week it would charge the weekly season rate, and for three and four days a week it would charge somewhere in between. I would think that it could only be applied to weekly tickets; trying to apply to monthly or annual would get too complicated.

 

[Starmill]

Instead of Carnets (and we know the problems they can cause), could there be an intelligent Oyster-type ticket which calculates a discount depending upon the number of times a week the ticket is used? Used one or two days a week it would charge the normal day ticket rate, used five times a week it would charge the weekly season rate, and for three and four days a week it would charge somewhere in between. I would think that it could only be applied to weekly tickets; trying to apply to monthly or annual would get too complicated.

This is regularly known as 'account based ticketing', where you sign up online, undertake to track your journey by whatever means, and are then invoiced in arrears. It can be a very civilised, grown-up way of doing things, in particular because it reduces the overbearing implication that travellers are guilty of fare evasion until proven innocent that some firms have pushed.

Unfortunately, it also has some 'transparency issues' for anything beyond short in-town trips.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Not to mention problems at ungated stations without Pvals

 

[Starmill]

Would probably be GPS or Bluetooth anyway. But however one looks at it getting the TOCs to deliver it would be almost impossible.