Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[Ianno87]

Some quite depressing, selfish, gullible pro-masks posts in the last few pages too.

Me wanting to wear a mask is not selfish.

 

[DB]

It's a "small, temporary sacrifice" - if they came out and said it would be reviewed in three weeks, or something like that, I'd probably be fine with it, but they haven't, and my fear is that they try to extend it to areas where it's even more pointless. They said that income tax was temporary - that was in the 1840s

And made it clear what it is actually supposed to achieve - because all the messaging has been the usual vague, emotive drivel.

 

[DB]

Me wanting to wear a mask is not selfish.

No, it's not - and I don't think anyone on here has espressed the opinion that anyone should be prevented from wearing a mask.

Demanding that others wear masks when they don't want to though - that is selfish.

 

[Ianno87]

No, it's not - and I don't think anyone on here has espressed the opinion that anyone should be prevented from wearing a mask.

Demanding that others wear masks when they don't want to though - that is selfish.

I'm not demanding that. The Government is, and I'm in agreement with the government.

 

[ashkeba]

Wearing a mask is uncomfortable - I did buy one some weeks ago in case I had to use public transport and I have tried wearing it. It was a good quality one and has replaceable filters. You can leave these out which does make it slightly easier to breath - but obviously means the mask has no effect - but it really is unpleasant.

So it sounds like you have bought one of those fancy valve masks which is not necessary for public use and you have inflicted some problems for yourself. The cloth or spandex ones are much more comfortable.

What is more as a spectacle wearer I keep steaming up - I am in more danger of having an accident because I can't see where I am going than catching anything.

In most cases, moving your spectables slightly up or down your nose so the glass is not in line with any leaks, or adjusting the bridge of the mask so it leaks at the bottom more than the top, will prevent steaming up.

I acted responsibly using my own judgement as people should be allowed to do. Just because at the start of lockdown when that queue formed up Snowdon - it doesn't mean every visitor is going to behave that way.

No, but it shows that enough will to cause problems. Well done you on responsible travel but that will not be enough to save you.

Though English I had until the differential restrictions imposed by the devolved powers been very sympathetic to eventual independence for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - but now I am not so sure. I think it has made me a unionist as I want consistency.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

This is has all gone beyond a joke in this increasingly risk averse society. I am under the impression that if the current populace and their politicians had been around in 1939 the white flag would have been produced to avoid deaths from air raids! Where would we be now?

I am confused: I thought you were opposed to the populace and their politicians continuing the fight against the covid so much, but now you are criticising the surrender.

Sadly, yes there is a virus, and sadly yes people are going to die - but given the projected and vastly inaccurate figure of 500,000 that was being circulated in March we have ended up with only about 9% of that figure in reality. Instead we have lost potentially up to 4 million jobs if the BBC news this evening is to believed.

So projections are vastly inaccurate when they are deaths but you believe them when they are jobs?

And can we ever really know how many lives and jobs would have been lost with no action?

And why not mention the projected and vastly inaccurate figure of 20,000 excess deaths that was also being circulated in March? We have ended up with over 270% of that figure in reality - so far.

The Keep Britain Free movement - led by businessman Simon Dolan is worth following on line.

"Businessman" sounds so much more non-establishment grass roots man of the people than "Accountant" or "Tropical Estate Owner" doesn't it?

 

[DB]

I'm not demanding that. The Government is, and I'm in agreement with the government.

But you are accusing anyone not wanting to wear one of being 'selfish'.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I agree with masks being compulsory in shops. Should have been brought in earlier.

 

[Ianno87]

But you are accusing anyone not wanting to wear one of being 'selfish'.

I don't *want* to wear one either. But I recognise it might, just might, be for the greater good.

 

[DelayRepay]

But people working in that sector will be full trained in how to use masks properly, and will be replacing them regularly. This isn't likely to apply to a lot of the general public.

You obviously missed the coverage of a lack of PPE to the care sector back in March/April. My sister was not able to change her mask regularly because there were not enough to go around. But she didn't get ill, either with Covid or anything else. The evidence that masks help to stop the spread of Covid is weak, but is there any evidence from any of the countries where mask wearing is common that masks are actually causing illness?

 

[DB]

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

I think the issue here is that Scotland particularly, and Wales to a lesser extent, are often merely doing what they do to be seen to be different rather than for any logical reason - and given that the borders are open it's largely unenforceable anyway, especially in the areas around the border.

Northern Ireland seems to be going along with its southern neighbour, which seems logical given that they are joined together and it is not joined to the UK mainland.

 

[jtuk]

How do we know how many would have died with no action? I don't know, check Sweden perhaps?

 

[DB]

I don't *want* to wear one either. But I recognise it might, just might, be for the greater good.

Up until this situation, significant impositions on the public like this would have required strong, clear evidence - not weak evidence that suggests that possibly it might make a very small difference. Maybe.

 

[DB]

How do we know how many would have died with no action? I don't know, check Sweden perhaps?

Still faring better than the UK, I believe...

 

[ashkeba]

How do we know how many would have died with no action? I don't know, check Sweden perhaps?

I know that proportionately more died in Sweden than its more active neighbours. So do you mean that even more would have died here with no action?

 

[Skymonster]

I agree with masks being compulsory in shops. Should have been brought in earlier.

Why should it have been brought in? Science-backed answer please, rather than emotion.

 

[ashkeba]

Still faring better than the UK, I believe...

I thought Sweden was now the only European country with a higher weekly deaths per million than the UK? Has the UK or someone else overtaken them again?

 

[Trainfan2019]

Why should it have been brought in? Science-backed answer please, rather than emotion.

I'm no scientist but I would feel safer. Just my own general opinion.

 

[DB]

I know that proportionately more died in Sweden than its more active neighbours. So do you mean that even more would have died here with no action?

They seem to have made the same mistakes around care homes as the UK did - and seem to have admitted that (unlike the UK, where the government never admits to making any mistakes, ever).

 

[Ianno87]

Up until this situation, significant impositions on the public like this would have required strong, clear evidence - not weak evidence that suggests that possibly it might make a very small difference. Maybe.

With a virus like Covid, we are still very learning how it transmits etc. Masks seem like a small, sensible precaution to take for now. Wearing one is really, really not an onerous ask in the grand scheme of things (disabilities etc excepted, of course) to guard against finding out the hard way later.

 

[DB]

I thought Sweden was now the only European country with a higher weekly deaths per million than the UK? Has the UK or someone else overtaken them again?

The latest figures I've found show the UK higher.

 

[DB]

With a virus like Covid, we are still very learning how it transmits etc. Masks seem like a small, sensible precaution to take for now. Wearing one is really, really not an onerous ask in the grand scheme of things (disabilities etc excepted, of course) to guard against finding out the hard way later.

If it transmitted in shops, there would logically be a spike in cases among supermarket workers, who have been working throughout the past four months, mostly not wearing masks. The fact that there isn't any such spike gives a pretty clear indication as to the risk.

 

[stevetay3]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Journey is two by twenty minutes with ten minute change, will most likely keep I mask for each journey.

 

[Ianno87]

If it transmitted in shops, there would logically be a spike in cases among supermarket workers, who have been working throughout the past four months, mostly not wearing masks. The fact that there isn't any such spike gives a pretty clear indication as to the risk.

Statistically, my chances of dying in a car or plane accident are low. Doesn't make me not want to wear a seatbelt, for the very mild associated inconvenience.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't *want* to wear one either. But I recognise it might, just might, be for the greater good.

The Greater Good!

I'm no scientist but I would feel safer. Just my own general opinion.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest masks will protect the wearer from the public, the theory is that masks will protect the public from the wearer. Evidence is either amazing or sketchy, depending on which side of the fence you are on.

Doesn't make me not want to wear a seatbelt, for the very mild associated inconvenience.

Of course there is 50 years of research to show that wearing seatbelts stops people from suffering injuries in car accidents, compared to not wearing them.

There is no such evidence to support mask wearing. "Covid is new" is not relevant, as other airborne viruses are not new. There is no evidence.

 

[DB]

Statistically, my chances of dying in a car or plane accident are low. Doesn't make me not want to wear a seatbelt, for the very mild associated inconvenience.

But there is clear statistical evidence to back up the seatbelts rule. There is no such evidence in this case.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Statistically, my chances of dying in a car or plane accident are low. Doesn't make me not want to wear a seatbelt, for the very mild associated inconvenience.

Statistically, if you were involved in a car accident, you would be much less likely to be injured/die when wearing a seatbelt.

Statistically, mandating the use of face coverings in shops will shut the coronamoaners up. That's the only evidence we're going on at this point.

 

[DB]

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest masks will protect the wearer from the public, the theory is that masks will protect the public from the wearer. Evidence is either amazing or sketchy, depending on which side of the fence you are on.

But for some reason, those who claim it's amazing never seem to be able to provide links to scientific papers which show this. A few have linked to a recent Lancet paper, which actually draws most of its evidence from domestic settings, which are completely different and with a much higher risk of transmission.

 

[Ianno87]

But there is clear statistical evidence to back up the seatbelts rule. There is no such evidence in this case.

My argument is the full evidence base is still being formed, and may not yet be statistically sugnificant.

124 years of car travel versus 6 months or so of Covid.

 

[Ianno87]

Statistically, if you were involved in a car accident, you would be much less likely to be injured/die when wearing a seatbelt.

Statistically, mandating the use of face coverings in shops will shut the coronamoaners up. That's the only evidence we're going on at this point.

But for some reason, those who claim it's amazing never seem to be able to provide links to scientific papers which show this. A few have linked to a recent Lancet paper, which actually draws most of its evidence from domestic settings, which are completely different and with a much higher risk of transmission.

I'd rather not wait and find out the hard way, for the sake of a minor inconvenience now.

 

[Richard Scott]

My argument is the full evidence base is still being formed, and may not yet be statistically sugnificant.

124 years of car travel versus 6 months or so of Covid.

A seatbelt doesn't cover your mouth, that's the issue I have with Facemasks, the thought of that makes me anxious as hate having my mouth covered. I can't breathe through my nose so any restriction causes anxiety. I have no issue with wearing a seatbelt as doesn't cause anxiety. If someone gave me hard evidence that masks make any difference then I'd just have to not go shopping but why shouldn't I based on weak evidence. I'm going to be worse off than when lockdown started as won't even be able to go to a supermarket.