Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[bramling]

I agree with this completely. I don't see how the high street will be able to survive in the same way, I really do think people are going to be put off by this. I suspect it may end up more down the "entertainment" route (i.e. things that can't be done online, coffee shops, barbers, games stores, restaurants etc) and that other shops may be concentrated in shopping centres. Cut costs back as far as possible and get people to spend money all in the same place when they can.

I must say there's probably a greater percentage of people on here saying they won't comply than I've heard in other circles, but others are deciding they just won't go to non-essential shops if this was implemented. I suspect that will be the case quite widely.

Unlike trains, especially DOO ones, personally I am less inclined to not comply in shops, simply as I don’t wish to place staff in even more of a difficult position than they already are.

And from a practical point of view anyone on a train can simply have a couple of bottles of drink on the table in front of them and claim to be drinking. Can’t really do that one in a shop.

Likewise for shops there’s already an attractive alternative - Amazon.

 

[Jayden99]

I must say there's probably a greater percentage of people on here saying they won't comply than I've heard in other circles, but others are deciding they just won't go to non-essential shops if this was implemented. I suspect that will be the case quite widely.

Going off my immediate circle of friends (apart from one who is very much in the shoot anyone spotted outside camp, and who I now rarely speak to) the belief seems to be that anything that could stop us ending up back in April (Quite a lot of death each day, don't go outside, don't see anyone you care about) is worth it for now. I know it won't put me off shopping, any less than masks on public transport has put me off that. In a few months time, if there's been no evidence of an uptick in cases and deaths, and they're still being mandated, then I'd start asking questions.

 

[Scrotnig]

Not just the high street. Just taking my own immediate family. We’ve cancelled no fewer than three UK holidays since March, two directly due to lockdown, and one now simply because we judged it would be more hassle than it’s worth in the current topsy-turvy atmosphere. With the good April weather we’d have probably managed a fourth mini-break. As well as the hotels that’s about 35-40 nights worth of eating out, buying souvenirs and the like from local businesses, visiting attractions (although our main activity is outdoor activities we do tend to visit things along the way), grabbing a bite in cafes, the odd preserved railway or two, as well as mundane stuff like car parks. As it is we haven’t done any of the above since March, and even before that very little since last November.

We don’t seem to be getting a decent summer this year weather wise, so the prospect for UK businesses in all honesty looks pretty grim.

The government don't care. They've clearly decided it's better to let them all go bust.

 

[Mintona]

I will not wear a mask in a shop. If it is compulsory I will not go in a shop. Tesco and Amazon deliver everything I want.

 

[Class 33]

Unbelievable. Ongoing restrictive social distancing, wearing face coverings on public transport, and now having to wear face coverings in shops!!! This is just dreadful this year, and how long this insane madness is going to go on for we don't know. This year is pretty much a complete write off really, due to all this. Could well drag on into next year and beyond. All this is going to effect many people's mental health and wellbeing.

Get me a time machine and take me back to many years so I can live my life all over again, well before all this madness and nonsense we've got now. Am absolutely hating the year 2020!

 

[Scrotnig]

Most people will comply, as most people want an easy life. But they'll comply by staying at home, just as they're complying with the public transport rules by driving a private car instead.

Exactly. I cannot wear a mask, so I'll comply with the rules by not going in any shop again, ever. Online only for me now.

 

[bramling]

You can see the twisted focus-group logic behind it - coax people out of their shielding at the end of the month by showing them it is now "safe" because everyone is wearing masks. Only the reality is that masks will merely undermine the 'end of shielding' and embed more deeply the "stay at home" message - those people aren't going to be coaxed into going out by this. But perhaps that's what the government wants? To say publicly it's OK to go out again and things are getting back to normal, while really still wanting people to stay at home.

I do wonder if it’s more than just a coincidence that this pretty much exactly coincides with when they are looking to end shielding.

Certainly at my work the tone has changed, and they are clearly intending to be rather more robust in trying to get the remaining shielded people back. For example this week they’re being posted a questionnaire which must be returned within 48 hours or they risk continued pay, and decisions by the company’s occupational health will be regarded as trouncing individual GPs.

 

[bramling]

Unbelievable. Ongoing restrictive social distancing, wearing face coverings on public transport, and now having to wear face coverings in shops!!! This is just dreadful this year, and how long this insane madness is going to go on for we don't know. This year is pretty much a complete write off really, due to all this. Could well drag on into next year and beyond. All this is going to effect many people's mental health and wellbeing.

Get me a time machine and take me back to many years so I can live my life all over again, well before all this madness and nonsense we've got now. Am absolutely hating the year 2020!

The point about mental health is well made. I wouldn’t say my mental health is suffering, however I’m definitely starting to get a malaise from life being essentially work - stuff at home - work - stuff at home - work. We’ve judged that many of our normal pursuits are simply too much hassle at the moment, and are hoping for September to act as a breakpoint coinciding with when the schools return (even that still seems a little precarious).

Even WW2 must have had the glimmer of hope that eventually things will end.

Already work, which was actually refreshingly normal during lockdown, has been taken over by the Covid police in various ways, not least masks, and now even half a rotten hour in Tesco’s at 2100 on a Saturday is to be unpleasant.

 

[mmh]

I will not wear a mask in a shop. If it is compulsory I will not go in a shop. Tesco and Amazon deliver everything I want.

I don't know what I will do. So far I've not worn a mask. I reluctantly have bought some in case I need to use a bus. Still a fortnight before I'll have to on the train, but no doubt as usual masks in shops will be coming to Wales after the standard fortnight difference to show it's an "independent decision."

I really, really, really do not want to, but I don't want to use Internet shopping either - I don't like it and it would be a huge change. I'm really hoping for a maverick shop which turns out not to care, but will there be one?

 

[BJames]

Going off my immediate circle of friends (apart from one who is very much in the shoot anyone spotted outside camp, and who I now rarely speak to) the belief seems to be that anything that could stop us ending up back in April (Quite a lot of death each day, don't go outside, don't see anyone you care about) is worth it for now. I know it won't put me off shopping, any less than masks on public transport has put me off that. In a few months time, if there's been no evidence of an uptick in cases and deaths, and they're still being mandated, then I'd start asking questions.

I agree with this to an extent which is the only reason I will comply but it will put me off optional shopping.

Unlike trains, especially DOO ones, personally I am less inclined to not comply in shops, simply as I don’t wish to place staff in even more of a difficult position than they already are.

And from a practical point of view anyone on a train can simply have a couple of bottles of drink on the table in front of them and claim to be drinking. Can’t really do that one in a shop.

Likewise for shops there’s already an attractive alternative - Amazon.

Very true. The people in my carriage on my intercity journey last week all did a mixture between wearing the mask/chin guard/on the table/back on properly throughout the journey - can't manage that one in Tesco's.

 

[BJames]

I don't know what I will do. So far I've not worn a mask. I reluctantly have bought some in case I need to use a bus. Still a fortnight before I'll have to on the train, but no doubt as usual masks in shops will be coming to Wales after the standard fortnight difference to show it's an "independent decision."

I really, really, really do not want to, but I don't want to use Internet shopping either - I don't like it and it would be a huge change. I'm really hoping for a maverick shop which turns out not to care, but will there be one?

Some small corner shops perhaps. Sainsbury's/Tesco/Lidl/others wouldn't get away with it.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Some small corner shops perhaps. Sainsbury's/Tesco/Lidl/others wouldn't get away with it.

The Government has ensured that there has been plenty of coverage of the few instances of non-Regulations-compliant shops being shut down. Not that it was really necessary given the media's natural instincts to run a sensationalised story. There will be a handful of shops that don't comply (inasmuch as there is any duty incumbent upon them) but not more.

 

[Andyh82]

It was obviously going that way. More pressure was being placed on the government by the media, opposition leaders, opposition supporters, we had a few days of news stories, Scotland did it.

“Most countries are wearing masks, why isn’t the UK? We were slow on lockdown, slow on testing....” was a common line by many.

Watch it change in the next few days though, now they are doing it, it’ll now be seen as a bad decision by commentators.

It’s odd how this forum is so far the opposite way in terms of opinion, if some of the views here were expressed elsewhere you’d be accused of murdering old ladies within 10 minutes.

 

[furlong]

What they should be doing is helping people to gain the confidence to get back to normal now, not adding more impediments - publishing the data they must now have that shows the types of places where the virus was known to spread (hospitals, care homes, households of non-clinical hospital staff, etc.) and frequency of such occurrences, the odds of serious illness based on age and other characteristics, then letting people make their own judgements. As one of the other posters said, if they think masks will help some people, they could have "mask only hours" like they did for a while for "key workers".

As for "following the science" it's a common characteristic that evidence that supports the media "consensus" tends to be more plentiful initially than evidence that doesn't - people with results that go against the consensus take longer to make more checks and be absolutely sure about what they're doing before they gain the courage to publish.

 

[alxndr]

I have not set foot in a Supermarket since mid March, will go to the local Budgens sometimes, but it's all online now, have I missed Tesco / Morrisons etc ? Nope !

In the beginning it was nigh on impossible to get an online delivery and while I still had some food I didn't want to add to the difficulty of getting shopping for those who were having to shield. I was also reluctant to admit to myself that I couldn't go to a shop and was coming up with all sorts of excuses to try to kid myself that I was just too busy or too tired to go shopping rather than face the fact that I wasn't coping well with change and needed to consider alternatives.

Now delivery seems a little more widely available I may look into it again, although it is more expensive than Aldi. Ironically I'd just got to the point where I was comfortable going in Aldi or the smaller Tesco in the next town during the quieter evening hours.

 

[al78]

I still intend to use shops, despite the new law, partly because going to a shop at least gets me outdoors, and also because it is much easier to use at least one local shop in Horsham, even if they do home delivery, which I'm not sure if they do.

 

[Jonny]

Exactly. I cannot wear a mask, so I'll comply with the rules by not going in any shop again, ever. Online only for me now.

You can count as disabled, the NHS is busy right now anyway so self-identification as exempt is OK as long as you have some grounds to do so.

 

[al78]

It’s odd how this forum is so far the opposite way in terms of opinion, if some of the views here were expressed elsewhere you’d be accused of murdering old ladies within 10 minutes.

There seens to be a spectrum on a common side. The extremes on that spectrum read to me as trying to challenge the regulations by attempting to swing the pendulum as far as possible in the opposite direction.

 

[Scrotnig]

You can count as disabled, the NHS is busy right now anyway so self-identification as exempt is OK as long as you have some grounds to do so.

But that means endlessly explaining myself to shop staff, police and even self-appointed mask vigilantes who are unlikely to take my word for it. Puts me at risk of verbal or even physical violence. No thanks.

 

[Jonny]

But that means endlessly explaining myself to shop staff, police and even self-appointed mask vigilantes who are unlikely to take my word for it. Puts me at risk of verbal or even physical violence. No thanks.

You can tell the vigilantes that it is none of their business.

 

[Scrotnig]

You can tell the vigilantes that it is none of their business.

You think they'll just agree to go away?

Besides all that will trigger anxiety and panic attacks. It's not feasible. I just won't go in shops.

 

[bramling]

But that means endlessly explaining myself to shop staff, police and even self-appointed mask vigilantes who are unlikely to take my word for it. Puts me at risk of verbal or even physical violence. No thanks.

A couple of logistical points, are there theoretically enough masks to go around (bearing in mind the disposable ones require replacement when touched)? Secondly from reading on social media some people are threatening to start stockpiling again in order to minimise time needing to be spend in shops. I really hope we don’t see empty toilet roll shelves and such like again.

 

[Jonny]

A couple of other thoughts:

1.) When does 'mask' become vaccine? I certainly won't be having a vaccine. I would expect to be treated the same as someone who has.

2.) Apparently even the Shopworkers' Union has reservations. They are asking for shop staff not to get involved in enforcement. That means that it will be close to unenforceable:

Making shoppers wear masks could 'trigger abuse', warn unions

If shoppers are forced to wear masks, staff should not have to police the policy, unions say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Making shoppers wear masks could 'trigger abuse', warn unions
Making the wearing of face masks in shops in England compulsory could "trigger abuse" of staff, unions and businesses have warned.
Union Usdaw said workers should not be made to enforce the rule if it becomes law as it could make them targets.
And the Federation of Small Businesses said masks could make some "happier to shop", but others more nervous.
(article continues)

 

[Non Multi]

Shops that give them away to customers will be rather popular!

On the other hand we are going to end up with more 'dead malls' for the urbexers to explore when they've closed their doors.

 

[bramling]

A couple of other thoughts:

1.) When does 'mask' become vaccine? I certainly won't be having a vaccine. I would expect to be treated the same as someone who has.

2.) Apparently even the Shopworkers' Union has reservations. They are asking for shop staff not to get involved in enforcement. That means that it will be close to unenforceable:

The difficulty is that if they don’t get involved in enforcement, they may well get dragged into squabbles between customers. Railway staff have already had a taste of that, and it will be much more of an issue in shop settings as there are more staff. There’s also the risk of next day’s local paper front page being “friend of Covid death granny slams local shop for not chucking out mask refuser”. For a small business that sort of thing is potentially quite damaging.

 

[Huntergreed]

To gather a rough idea of what people think, can I ask the forum how long you think this will last for? I hope it'll end in 2020 but I don't think it will.

 

[NorthOxonian]

To gather a rough idea of what people think, can I ask the forum how long you think this will last for? I hope it'll end in 2020 but I don't think it will.

I can't see it ending until there's a vaccine (which could be years away). Piers Morgan and the rest of the media mob will accuse anyone who tries to touch the rules of being a granny killer.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

To gather a rough idea of what people think, can I ask the forum how long you think this will last for? I hope it'll end in 2020 but I don't think it will.

I'd maybe say March 2021, once the well-anticipated Winter resurgence has had its time to come and go. If there's no Winter resurgence at all then I see no reason for it to remain mandatory full stop.

I expect it to be reviewed in 6 months time though. Perhaps Mr Hancock will clear this up tomorrow, but not holding my breath.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I'm glad that I went out this evening and did a big shop with more shelf-stable goods than usual now.

I have worn a face mask once, for about 10 minutes, as I briefly had to enter station premises. During that time I could feel the need to rip it off my face mounting and it was starting to take a great deal of effort not to do so.
I have no problem attempting to wear a face mask in situations where it feels necessary or appropriate, but I'm concerned about if I reach that point where I can't handle it being on any longer. I'm hoping that my tolerance will be greater than it was the last time I tried to wear one if the weather remains cooler. I don't want to find myself stuck in a situation where I'm not allowed to take it off, but can't bear it any longer. Could I claim an exemption? Possibly, but I'm only just starting to come to terms with the fact that maybe I do have issues with some things and I'm not really ready to announce that to the world at large.

I'm concerned that this might push me back into a state where I will not go shopping at all. When this first started I found that I couldn't bring myself to go shopping at all for nearly two months, until the point where I desperately had to force myself go as I had already lost an unhealthy amount of weight through lack of food. I don't want to end up back in that situation.

Face coverings do take some getting used to - the first time you put one on it can feel very weird, oppressive and uncomfortable and it's a completely natural reaction to want to rip it off.
We're not generally used to things touching out face at all, let alone have something constantly against the skin. We're also not used to the heat from the exhaled air unless we've done a jacket right up in winter
It's something that most folk are likely to need some time to adjust to and to feel comfortable (or at least less uncomfortable) with.

You may find it helpful to try wearing one in a safe environment (eg at home where there is no pressure on you) for short periods to get more accustomed to it. Gently extending the wear-time bit by bit as you get used to it.
This should hopefully give you the confidence to go and do things knowing that you will be fine for maybe 15/20/30 minutes or longer

I don't know what kind of mask you used but it's definitely worth trying different styles - the lightweight surgical type masks can feel a lot less invasive.
I've got a couple of handmade ones and they feel a bit enclosing and warm but are otherwise quite comfy. I got one from ASDA that is really lightweight but does make you've put a pair of white pants on you face which is really not a good look
Scarfs, buffs etc are all options too and may feel more natural and normal (the sort of thing you'd wear on a cold winters day)

I've found it the interaction of a mask and my beard can be bloody irritating (I'm not used to a beard anyway - that's been a lockdown experiment) and can really set off the nerves in my face - I suspect the beard may have to go.

I don't know what the rules will be in England but under the Scottish guidelines if you found you really don't tolerate a face covering well and it impacts on your health and wellbeing then you absolutely would be exempt from wearing one and you are not obliged to reveal the reasons if challenged

I do hope you can find something that works for you

 

[BJames]

To gather a rough idea of what people think, can I ask the forum how long you think this will last for? I hope it'll end in 2020 but I don't think it will.

A few months, maybe a bit more. Could be one of these things that just gradually compliance drops away until its not really a thing anymore. Bit like social distancing in my opinion, which doesn't really seem to be happening at all round my area anymore, even in supermarkets and places marked out for it.

I can't see it ending until there's a vaccine (which could be years away). Piers Morgan and the rest of the media mob will accuse anyone who tries to touch the rules of being a granny killer.

Perhaps. Morgan will definitely have some things to say. As will Sadiq Khan. Has anyone else seen his hysterical twitter feed, a permanent game of politics against the government with him pushing his own agenda and being continually ignored.