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Do restrictions apply on the use of public transport in Wales? Are leisure journeys allowed or not?

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PHILIPE

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TFW's stance on "Essential Travel only" puts the Twitter team on the spot. They can only keep on replying with the same generic response because they are not the ones actually making the decision. They have been bombarded all day today.
 
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yorkie

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TFW's stance on "Essential Travel only" puts the Twitter team on the spot. They can only keep on replying with the same generic response because they are not the ones actually making the decision. They have been bombarded all day today.
This sounds to me like a case of an employer failing in its duty of care towards its employees by putting them in an absolutely impossible position.

They know they can't contradict themselves, but nor can they be seen to be discriminating...
 

Dai Corner

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I tweeted my (Labour) constituency MS and MSs from the three Opposition parties asking if they thought the discriminatory policy allowing motorists to travel throughout Wales for any purpose but preventing those who couldn't drive through age or disability or not owning a car because they couldn't afford to doing the same by public transport should be changed.

Only the Brexit Party MS responded and he said it should. His Party has voted against pretty much all restrictions.

Make of that what you will!
 

Parallel

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You could try tweeting TfW to seek clarification. I'd be interested to see their response.
The Twitter staff have replied to several people saying that the BTP are on stations and trains assessing if passenger journeys are essential. Publically threatening your customers with the BTP is not a good look, and things could definitely worded much more nicely. All this will do is encourage the modal shift from rail going forward in Wales, and I'm sure the W&B franchise will need revenue from passengers in the future. No point spending all that money on nice shiny trains and route upgrades when you’ve alienated your passengers, who are now taking their cars!
 
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yorkie

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I'd be asking BTP for clarification if they were denying a journey to be made by train that would be permitted by car; I'd obtain evidence of this, then abort the journey and consult a solicitor regarding the legality of this.

If anyone is denied a journey, please do report it here.
 

Belperpete

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This is all interesting reading. I have two holidays booked in Wales for August, one near Fishguard and one near Betys-y-Coed. I live in London. Both holiday places are allowed to open. But my only means of transport is public transport. So, what to do? I am loathe to cancel. I think I shall take my chances as it seems from what I read that it is only 'advice' not to travel.

It is a shame the cost is inflated because advance tickets on TfW are no longer available.

As an aside I liked the messaging on South Eastern that you should only use their services 'if it is your only option'. That seemed fair.
You need to remember that 2m social distancing not only still applies in Wales, but is also a legal requirement. With a reduced train service, and in some cases a very reduced bus service, running at much reduced capacity (some buses having half the seats taped off, and apparently even worse on trains?), there is very little capacity. BTP have generally not been enforcing up to now as there has been no need for them to do so, ridership has been so low. But as levels rise (and they have risen noticeably around here in the last week or two), things may change if people don't maintain social distancing on trains and buses. If they start getting complaints about people breaking the law, they are surely bound to start taking action. Whether or not they can legally enforce essential journeys only, they can take action if you cannot maintain the 2m legal requirement because the train or bus is too busy.

As I say, ridership where I live, in Snowdonia, has increased noticeably in the last couple of weeks, particularly since nonessential shops reopened and the 5 mile limit was dropped. Under normal circumstances the loading would still be considered low, but with a thinned-out service and half the seats out of use on what is running, it is probably at half effective capacity. It will be interesting to see what happens now the tourists are coming back in force (yesterday was the first day that hotels and campsites could reopen, although many are still closed).

If I were in your shoes, I would go ahead with your holidays, but make sure that you reserve seats for your outward and return journeys. You then have a "right" to sit in those seats. If you are intending travelling by Avanti to get to North Wales, be aware that many of their weekday services currently seem to be "reservation only". Weekend services don't seem to be, but I would still recommend reserving. And I would tend to avoid using local buses to get around while you are here, and in particular the last bus of the day to get back (which currently might not be that late).

The major influx of visitors ignoring the government guidance immediately before lockdown had a profound impact around here. On my walk yesterday, there were still numerous posters up telling tourists to stay away, including one in the official community noticeboard. There was no need for the police to enforce closures during the lockdown, as any owner daring to open to tourists would have been ostracised by the community. Many shops around here even had signs up saying they would only serve you if you could prove you are local ("this is a local shop, for local people"). However, thankfully things are starting to get back to normal. There are a lot of people whose livelihoods are entirely dependent on tourists. Unfortunately, many of them aren't "locals".
 

mmh

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I had been mostly positive about what I saw of the BTP's activity in Wales, however just to show you can always be wrong this morning they've posted this nonsense on Twitter


A picture of an officer in the doorway of a train wearing a face mask, with the text "Our officers are out and about on trains complying with the requirements to wear face coverings on public transport"

Sigh.
 

Bikeman78

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You need to remember that 2m social distancing not only still applies in Wales, but is also a legal requirement. With a reduced train service, and in some cases a very reduced bus service, running at much reduced capacity (some buses having half the seats taped off, and apparently even worse on trains?), there is very little capacity. BTP have generally not been enforcing up to now as there has been no need for them to do so, ridership has been so low. But as levels rise (and they have risen noticeably around here in the last week or two), things may change if people don't maintain social distancing on trains and buses. If they start getting complaints about people breaking the law, they are surely bound to start taking action. Whether or not they can legally enforce essential journeys only, they can take action if you cannot maintain the 2m legal requirement because the train or bus is too busy.

As I say, ridership where I live, in Snowdonia, has increased noticeably in the last couple of weeks, particularly since nonessential shops reopened and the 5 mile limit was dropped. Under normal circumstances the loading would still be considered low, but with a thinned-out service and half the seats out of use on what is running, it is probably at half effective capacity. It will be interesting to see what happens now the tourists are coming back in force (yesterday was the first day that hotels and campsites could reopen, although many are still closed).
Trains are down to about 20%. A two car has 30 seats available instead of 150. As regards "overcrowding," what would people be charged with? During the heatwave a few weeks ago, some trains to Barry Island had roughly 100 people on a two car. I believe the BTP did attend in the afternoon but I'm not aware of any action being taken.
 

Richard Scott

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I thought the 2m was only a legal requirement in a place of work as can't possibly be enforceable as law in everyday life?
 

anthony263

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Im put driving the 112 service 8n pontypridd today followed by the last 130 from Pontypridd to Blaencwm and back tonight at 2140.

Buses have been relatively busy so far a few passengers wearing face masks along with me wearing mask snd gloves
 

anthony263

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Just had 2 families get on the bus in pontypridd to go back home to ynysybwl. Quite a few people out using the buses today many complaining about stagecoach no doing any Sunday buses in the rhondda which did used to do well.
 

kieron

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They are even telling us that our face coverings should be 3-layers (hard enough to breathe with two layers), and telling us what we should bring with us.
It does seem a bit counterproductive to recommend 3 layers without any further explanation. The WHO guidance (here, under "does WHO have any guidance on which masks to use?") gives some indication of what those layers should be, saying the preferred type of mask has:

who.int said:
  • an inner layer of absorbent material such as cotton
  • a middle layer of non-woven material such as polypropylene
  • an outer layer of non-absorbent material, such as polyester or polyester blend

It also says the mask should "let you breathe while talking and walking briskly".

They give more detailed advice here.

Finding a mask on sale which meets those criteria doesn't seem to be straightforward, though.
 

mmh

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Trains are down to about 20%. A two car has 30 seats available instead of 150.

That's my observation too. I've just been on a TFW (well, unrefurbished EMT) 153 and as I was the only passenger[*] I wandered around counting. 16 seats without don't use signs out of 60. Plus 4 tip up seats with 3 marked out of use.

[*] There was a single group of 3 people in the other unit of the train.

In happier news though, both Llandudno and Conwy are bustling with locals and day trippers today. No masks in sight, no distancing and people enjoying themselves as much as they can. There are pleasure cruises running from Conwy Quay for the first time this year. Wonderful to see. Get everything open properly and get them spending.
 

PHILIPE

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That's my observation too. I've just been on a TFW (well, unrefurbished EMT) 153 and as I was the only passenger[*] I wandered around counting. 16 seats without don't use signs out of 60. Plus 4 tip up seats with 3 marked out of use.

[*] There was a single group of 3 people in the other unit of the train.

In happier news though, both Llandudno and Conwy are bustling with locals and day trippers today. No masks in sight, no distancing and people enjoying themselves as much as they can. There are pleasure cruises running from Conwy Quay for the first time this year. Wonderful to see. Get everything open properly and get them spending.

The Government have dithered on the use of masks almost since Day 1.
 

mmh

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The Government have dithered on the use of masks almost since Day 1.

I'm normally at the front of the queue to criticise them, but I don't think they have. On Thursday when pressed about it in relation to school reopening, they reiterated that the recommendation they'd had was one of little and questioned effect, so they weren't going to mandate them in schools or other settings. A private company can mandate them if they want, but any that do will look increasingly out of touch.
 

anthony263

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Nice to see people in pontypridd making an effort to support the local economy Including their local bus companies
 

trainophile

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If the trains were used strictly for key workers only, services between about 0900 and 1600 would be pretty much empty except for a few who dared infer that their travel was essential.

TfW seem to be trying to deflect attention from this nonsense by tweeting several times a day about their new tram-trains. Yes we've got the message now.
 

Llandudno

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That's my observation too. I've just been on a TFW (well, unrefurbished EMT) 153 and as I was the only passenger[*] I wandered around counting. 16 seats without don't use signs out of 60. Plus 4 tip up seats with 3 marked out of use.

[*] There was a single group of 3 people in the other unit of the train.

In happier news though, both Llandudno and Conwy are bustling with locals and day trippers today. No masks in sight, no distancing and people enjoying themselves as much as they can. There are pleasure cruises running from Conwy Quay for the first time this year. Wonderful to see. Get everything open properly and get them spending.
It will be interesting this week now that the caravan parks are open, to see how busy the trains will be serving Rhyl and Prestatyn. The pubs in Wales are still closed (apart from a few who may open outdoors only) until 3 August, so I wonder if many of the holidaymakers may hop on the train to Chester for a day/night out. They normally do....
 

anthony263

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Before lockdown the last 130 from Pontypridd to Blaencwm which nat do on a Sunday evening used to be pretty busy. I've been doing this same shift every Sunday since 23rd March and ive just driven myself around on this 130.

However I am expecting some passengers to start coming back once the pubs re open
 

Belperpete

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Wales is due to have a public transport announcement on Monday.
My initial reaction was Hurrah, if they are going to get rid of the essential travel only guidance. However, thinking about it, the major openings-up were announced by the First Minister on Friday. Perhaps they are going to announce that pre-booking and reservations will be compulsory? They made some comments about that awhile back, but then it all went quiet and I had hoped that idea had gone away. But is it a co-incidence that my local bus company has just started consulting about requiring pre-booking? Anyway, we shall find out soon.
 

anthony263

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Adventure travel wont go for pre booking and i think stagecoach will be the same along with Cardiff bus. Hopefully allowing1m distancing on.public transport would be a helpb
 

anthony263

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my colleagues today on the crosscity services in Cardiff are saying there's been a sharp increase in demand from customers today wanting to get on buses so hopefully this will show mr drakeford he needs to ease restrictions on public transport
 

Dai Corner

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I'm watching the First Minister's statement and it seem the public transport announcement was that 'for the sake of consistency and simplicity' face coverings will be compulsory from July 27 (as they already are in England).

Nothing on funding, services or permitted usage.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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I'm watching the First Minister's statement and it seem the public transport announcement was that 'for the sake of consistency and simplicity' face coverings will be compulsory from July 27 (as they already are in England).
Talk about jumping on the bandwagon, eh? 8-)
 

Belperpete

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I'm watching the First Minister's statement and it seem the public transport announcement was that 'for the sake of consistency and simplicity' face coverings will be compulsory from July 27 (as they already are in England).
In England, isn't the requirement only for a simple face covering, such as a scarf, whereas in Wales we will be required to wear a three-layer mask?
 

Dai Corner

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In England, isn't the requirement only for a simple face covering, such as a scarf, whereas in Wales we will be required to wear a three-layer mask?

I'm really not sure!

Here's the Welsh Government guidance on face coverings / masks but it hasn't been updated since 9 June.


Welsh Government said:
What kind of face covering should people wear?
To provide any protection to others, face coverings need to be made, worn, handled and disposed of in a certain way.
Unfortunately, many of the home made masks being worn offer little protection to the wearer or those around them.
The WHO recommends a minimum of three layers in a face covering.
 

PupCuff

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In England, isn't the requirement only for a simple face covering, such as a scarf, whereas in Wales we will be required to wear a three-layer mask?

In which case Wales would be doing it right. If they could just tack on a clause about making sure it fits properly too, with fines for those wearing ones with gaping holes around the sides of their face, or with their nose exposed, we might have a law which mandates a mask which would actually work.
 

Romsey

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After dipping into this thread, something seemed familiar....

Check out this link - Wrong location and dates but the state of mind seems familiar.
 

yorkie

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Can we avoid discussion of masks in this thread please? We have (and have had) many other threads to discuss the wearing of masks.
 

yorkie

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https://mobile.twitter.com/RailFareWatch/status/1284431706863304708
Hi, we will continue to follow all the latest advice set out by the government regarding public transport. As a company based in Wales, we will continue to follow Welsh Government guidelines. More information will be shared regarding these changes next week. ^Owen
Basically leisure travel is allowed, but TfW will be deterring people from using their services, even in England, because they are a Welsh company.
 
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