TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

[hexagon789]

It's the filters on the Auxiliary Power Supply equipment (ACU on a 350) which were getting clogged with pollen. This has been rectified now and was a similar affliction on the 350. It wasn't necessarily causing the unit to fail in traffic but it would mean they would run on reduced power. Depending on which end of the unit the problem occurred on would determine how much traction power is available.

What does the APS actually do then? Something related to traction power?

 

[driver9000]

What does the APS actually do then? Something related to traction power?

The APS provides the train with its 400v and 230v supply. Each pantograph coach has an APS and these are connected to the TCU (Traction Converter) on the adjacent driving coach and this has a benefit to the passengers as it retains supply to the plug sockets and HVAC passing through a neutral section.

 

[hexagon789]

The APS provides the train with its 400v and 230v supply. Each pantograph coach has an APS and these are connected to the TCU (Traction Converter) on the adjacent driving coach and this has a benefit to the passengers as it retains supply to the plug sockets and HVAC passing through a neutral section.

Thank you very much, that's an excellent explanation

 

[Roast Veg]

334s/385s are quite prone so it doesn't surprise me a lot.

Presumably the 334s, like the 458s, have their traction motor blowers operate in proportion to the speed of the wheels? That always seemed a gross oversiplification of cooling arrangements to me.

 

[hexagon789]

Presumably the 334s, like the 458s, have their traction motor blowers operate in proportion to the speed of the wheels? That always seemed a gross oversiplification of cooling arrangements to me.

I think they do because it was when they used to operate certain of the Cathcart Circle services, back when 334s were the staple traction in Ayrshire, that there were some overheating issues.

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably the 334s, like the 458s, have their traction motor blowers operate in proportion to the speed of the wheels? That always seemed a gross oversiplification of cooling arrangements to me.

When the 458/5s were regeared to 75 mph units it was explained in Modern Railways that this was to improve traction motor cooling, because they didn’t have blowers, just fans within the motors. A separate blower would be independent of the wheel speed.

 

[tpjm]

The 'compressor fault' is actually (for the most part) a software issue with the TMS. Frustratingly, the reasons for 397s setting down are often wildly different. A good example is the filter to the cooling system that is mentioned further up the thread - because this was fleet-wide it was quick to diagnose and resolve. The smaller issues are much more difficult to pin-point, but we've seen false HABD activations, issues with the PAD (or PassCom in old money) and some ASDO related problems.

Worth remembering that this is a new bespoke fleet of only 12 trains. At this point in their life, the Class 185 fleet weren't performing all that great either! MTIN figures are always going to be biased against the 397 because it's being compared to a hideously (now) reliable DMU in the form of the Class 185, an established product in the form of the Class 802 and essentially a train without a traction package in the form of Nova 3 (as the MTINs for Mk5a don't include Class 68s).

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Could that be a future downfall for the fleet? A small bespoke fleet of 12 with seemingly little prospect of further orders? After all, the 460s were binned and rebuilt as 458s and even then they are still being knocked on the head well before their time and the 707s were facing disposal before they even entered service. BR were quick to dispose of what they deemed “non-standard” which is a shame because I think from a customer and train crew point of view these are better laid out and not as noisy as an 802. if this fleet remains small and no further orders are procured, the question is will they stay TPE for life or who could use them? The only other routes I can see as the network is today is Corby services, or Birmingham -> Manchester/Liverpool workings.

 

[swt_passenger]

Could that be a future downfall for the fleet? A small bespoke fleet of 12 with seemingly little prospect of further orders? After all, the 460s were binned and rebuilt as 458s and even then they are still being knocked on the head well before their time and the 707s were facing disposal before they even entered service. BR were quick to dispose of what they deemed “non-standard” which is a shame because I think from a customer and train crew point of view these are better laid out and not as noisy as an 802. if this fleet remains small and no further orders are procured, the question is will they stay TPE for life or who could use them? The only other routes I can see as the network is today is Corby services, or Birmingham -> Manchester/Liverpool workings.

I don’t think 707 are anything like a small bespoke fleet in this context, they are variants on 700 and 717, with significant common parts?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Anglo-Scottish services are currently diverting via Wigan and (part of) the Chat Moss due to a fatality at Salford Crescent. The way the 350s used to go I guess.

Could the 397s have authorisation to travel at 125 between Preston and Golborne Junction to maintain timings?

 

[driver9000]

Anglo-Scottish services are currently diverting via Wigan and (part of) the Chat Moss due to a fatality at Salford Crescent. The way the 350s used to go I guess.

Could the 397s have authorisation to travel at 125 between Preston and Golborne Junction to maintain timings?

No they don't. It doesn't cost much time anyway.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Anglo-Scottish services are currently diverting via Wigan and (part of) the Chat Moss due to a fatality at Salford Crescent. The way the 350s used to go I guess.
Could the 397s have authorisation to travel at 125 between Preston and Golborne Junction to maintain timings?

I doubt it. It's not much slower with a clear run.
There's no 125 between Wigan and Warrington anyway (no tilt/EPS on that bit).

 

[tricky18jan]

Possibly a long shot but does anyone know which units were out working on Saturday ? Passed around 3 whilst heading up and down from Glasgow to Manchester

Thanks
Rich

 

[hexagon789]

I seem to remember that Network Rail had planned to allow the 397s 125 from May this year on certain sections of the WCML north of Preston.

Are the 397s still effectively limited to 110mph as I would gather that COVID has likely put any 125 without tilt aspirations back somewhat?

 

[route101]

Had a nice ride last night from Manchester to Glasgow on TPE 397. Bit bumpy at times , was quiet in front coach. Seats are firm but much prefer these to the old class 350s.

 

[TrainTube]

Apologies if mentioned already, are all services between Liverpool and Glasgow Central via St Helens now 397s?

 

[59CosG95]

Apologies if mentioned already, are all services between Liverpool and Glasgow Central via St Helens now 397s?

Yes, they would be.

 

[route101]

Apologies if mentioned already, are all services between Liverpool and Glasgow Central via St Helens now 397s?

Yes , i took the 1612 from Liverpool to Glasgow via St Helens, only a few services go that way , rest go via Golborne.

 

[driver9000]

Apologies if mentioned already, are all services between Liverpool and Glasgow Central via St Helens now 397s?

All Transpennine Express WCML services are 397s now.

 

[Jamesrob637]

And they seem to be getting a little more reliable now. Very few full cancellations. No recourse to 185s like the good ol' days!

 

[bengley]

And they seem to be getting a little more reliable now. Very few full cancellations. No recourse to 185s like the good ol' days!

They can't be subbed with a 185. Crews effectively no longer sign 185s.

 

[CW2]

I had my first run with a 397 yesterday - an afternoon run from Liverpool to Carlisle. My first impression was that there is a strong family likeness to the Nova 3 vehicles I've previously travelled in. It is an InterCity class product. On the downside, the ride is a bit livelier than it should be. It gives the impression that the bogies are working very hard at higher speeds, so there is a constant jiggling motion - with accompanying sounds - beneath your feet. Performance wise the acceleration was all that you would expect from a modern EMU. I'd happily travel in one in preference to a 221 on the WCML, but they aren't yet as comfortable as a Pendolino.

 

[Mollman]

They can't be subbed with a 185. Crews effectively no longer sign 185s.

I presume that is a very recent thing as 185s were still on the WCML a month or two ago.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I presume that is a very recent thing as 185s were still on the WCML a month or two ago.

aye, 185s are bannned north of Carlisle because the cant do 125mph

 

[43096]

aye, 185s are bannned north of Carlisle because the cant do 125mph

Are there any non-EPS 125mph sections up there, then?

 

[driver9000]

Are there any non-EPS 125mph sections up there, then?

No. The current maximum speed is 110mph so 185s can't maintain timings north of Oxenholme being 100mph units. A similar situation exists on the East Coast which has Newcastle as the furthest north a 185 is allowed.

 

[driver9000]

I presume that is a very recent thing as 185s were still on the WCML a month or two ago.

Since the switch on of C-ASDO in May 185s have been off the WCML Anglo-Scottish services as crews haven't been trained on its use. A lot of Drivers and Guards haven't been on a 185 for a few months anyway so competence is expiring requiring refresher courses which can't be done at the moment.

 

[37057]

No. The current maximum speed is 110mph so 185s can't maintain timings north of Oxenholme being 100mph units. A similar situation exists on the East Coast which has Newcastle as the furthest north a 185 is allowed.

Have the 185s ever been used north of Newcastle?

The reason I ask is a few years ago I was looking at data from one which appeared to look as if it had been on it's way to Edinburgh via the ECML.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have the 185s ever been used north of Newcastle?

The reason I ask is a few years ago I was looking at data from one which appeared to look as if it had been on it's way to Edinburgh via the ECML.

Wasn't there a period of engineering work diversions? So it was effectively a WCML service.

Searches Forum, there was Storm Frank in Jan 2016, WCML bridge problems.

 

[driver9000]

Have the 185s ever been used north of Newcastle?

The reason I ask is a few years ago I was looking at data from one which appeared to look as if it had been on it's way to Edinburgh via the ECML.

Yes they have when the WCML was closed for engineering work and a skeleton service was operated between Edinburgh and Newcastle linking down to Manchester Airport. Since the 802s entered service at least 1 has made it to Edinburgh but hasn't been permitted since.