Transpennine 802 Newcastle - Edinburgh

[Starmill]

Do they still have that random 3 LNER southbound trains in about 35 minutes or so that they used to on Sundays from Edinburgh. I could see 3 successive 91s at short spacings possibly being at the limit of the power supply

Yes, I set out the times from Newcastle in post 15. Although I didn't mark the ones that originate there almost all of them originate at a station in Scotland. In time gone by a number of those would have been HST worked but of course no longer. The departures from Edinburgh in quick succession e.g. 1320 and 1330 are to provide relief to the services from the Highlands.

 

[Bald Rick]

The issue is not how many trains a day, or even a hour operate. It is the instantaneous load on any given Feeder station in what is known as an “n-1” scenario, which is when one of the adjacent feeders goes off line with no notice. In these circumstances the adjacent feeders either side have to through feed. Quite simply, if there are too many trains in the same feeding section at the same time, the feeder will trip, and nothing can run.

Sundays have the most intensive service north of Newcastle. The modelling shows that if all the timetabled services run, and a feeder station goes off line, the other feeders can’t cope. Hence the instruction on Sundays.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, I set out the times from Newcastle in post 15. Although I didn't mark the ones that originate there almost all of them originate at a station in Scotland. In time gone by a number of those would have been HST worked but of course no longer. The departures from Edinburgh in quick succession e.g. 1320 and 1330 are to provide relief to the services from the Highlands.

Thanks I had a look at the timetable myself.

 

[hexagon789]

The issue is not how many trains a day, or even a hour operate. It is the instantaneous load on any given Feeder station in what is known as an “n-1” scenario, which is when one of the adjacent feeders goes off line with no notice. In these circumstances the adjacent feeders either side have to through feed. Quite simply, if there are too many trains in the same feeding section at the same time, the feeder will trip, and nothing can run.

Sundays have the most intensive service north of Newcastle. The modelling shows that if all the timetabled services run, and a feeder station goes off line, the other feeders can’t cope. Hence the instruction on Sundays.

So if they put in another feeder station that would be sufficient to allow TPE 802s to run OLE all the way to Edinburgh or is that too simplistic a solution

 

[swt_passenger]

So if they put in another feeder station that would be sufficient to allow TPE 802s to run OLE all the way to Edinburgh or is that too simplistic a solution

They are doing just that. There’s a thread about it in the infrastructure section. The key location in North Northumberland is the SFC feeder at Marshall Meadows (just north of Berwick). Post #28 gives the lowdown...

ECML Power Supply Upgrade

As I've started a Tracking/Queries thread for the WCML PSU, I thought I'd start one for the ECML too. Phase 1: Wood Green (London) - Bawtry (Doncaster) Cabled ATF (in troughs, rather than suspended from structures) in operation between Welwyn SATS & Hitchin SATS. New Substations: Potters Bar...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

So if they put in another feeder station that would be sufficient to allow TPE 802s to run OLE all the way to Edinburgh or is that too simplistic a solution

Yes that’s right. Typical lead time for a feeder station is 5 years + due to Procurement process for big transformers and National Grid connection process.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes that’s right. Typical lead time for a feeder station is 5 years + due to Procurement process for big transformers and National Grid connection process.

And presumably NR haven't commenced with it yet, so that's probably 2026 at the earliest

Edit: never mind, I see it's ongoing

 

[hexagon789]

They are doing just that. There’s a thread about it in the infrastructure section. The key location in North Northumberland is the SFC feeder at Marshall Meadows (just north of Berwick). Post #28 gives the lowdown...

ECML Power Supply Upgrade

As I've started a Tracking/Queries thread for the WCML PSU, I thought I'd start one for the ECML too. Phase 1: Wood Green (London) - Bawtry (Doncaster) Cabled ATF (in troughs, rather than suspended from structures) in operation between Welwyn SATS & Hitchin SATS. New Substations: Potters Bar...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks, good to see that they are working towards sorting the issue

 

[D365]

I expect that if NR had started the power upgrade when the TOCs first asked for it, (and when it first appeared in the CP5 enhancement plan), then we wouldn’t be having this discussion?

Delays, delays and postponements.

 

[Fuzzytop]

Do these extensions to Edinburgh serve much purpose other than being an Orcats raid?

 

[Starmill]

Do these extensions to Edinburgh serve much purpose other than being an Orcats raid?

No but the old 'ORCATS Raid' adage is well out of date now. The principal objective is to push people onto TransPennine Express Only tickets, of one type or another.

 

[Class 170101]

Do these extensions to Edinburgh serve much purpose other than being an Orcats raid?

Improved links between Edinburgh and Leeds now twice per hour versus once per hour. Direct service to Huddersfield

 

[InOban]

It's also partly to enable the 802s to reach their maintenance base at Craigentinny.

The building of a feeder station requires the cooperation of the Grid. After all you are using one of the three phases which have to be balanced.

The suggestion of a new design of small solid state feeders which use all three phases will make life much simpler for the Grid.

 

[hexagon789]

Do these extensions to Edinburgh serve much purpose other than being an Orcats raid?

I think it's for maintenance at Craigy while also given extra connections and indeed frequency up the northern ECML.

As for ORCATS I think that's getting a bit OT for this thread to be fair

 

[swt_passenger]

The building of a feeder station requires the cooperation of the Grid. After all you are using one of the three phases which have to be balanced.

The suggestion of a new design of small solid state feeders which use all three phases will make life much simpler for the Grid.

The new feeder station at Marshall Meadows will be a 3 phase SFC, as will Hambleton Jn. It’s all mentioned in the ECML PSU upgrade thread I linked to a few posts back.