TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

[Liverpool 507]

Another failure today. Seems to be becoming a daily or at least several times weekly occurrence. Not so bad right now but will be an issue going forward (which it appears said 397 isn't managing!)

Give it time, all new trains suffer teething problems and faults.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Give it time, all new trains suffer teething problems and faults.

They have a rather unique opportunity over the next month or two to get everything sorted before anybody really notices. I hope they are diligent in taking that opportunity.

 

[samuelmorris]

Updated MTIN graph for Transpennine (data source: modern railways)

https://i.imgur.com/qF6gujb.png

 

[tpjm]

This has been the first real test of Class 397 in (British) warm weather, and understandably it’s thrown up some interesting areas for improvement mainly related to air intake due to blocked filters.

A good point was made earlier this week that at the same point in their life, the Class 185 fleet was performing at the same level as Class 397 currently is.

 

[Railperf]

Are the 397's settling down reliably now?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Are the 397's settling down reliably now?

I've seen a couple of part-cancellations on the Anglo-Scottish route "due to a fault on this train" but no full cancellations for a while. The weather is a bit more "British" at the moment though!

 

[bengley]

I've seen a couple of part-cancellations on the Anglo-Scottish route "due to a fault on this train" but no full cancellations for a while. The weather is a bit more "British" at the moment though!

1S30 fully cancelled and 1M86 part cancelled Glasgow to Carlisle due to a unit fault.

There are unfortunately still a fair few cancellations as a result of unit issues.

 

[samuelmorris]

Are the 397's settling down reliably now?

Current MTIN figures for TPE from latest Modern Railways mag

https://i.imgur.com/c3Fo5t3.png

Since all three new stock classes are down in April I suspect that's from a Covid reduction in usage.

 

[hexagon789]

1S30 fully cancelled and 1M86 part cancelled Glasgow to Carlisle due to a unit fault.

There are unfortunately still a fair few cancellations as a result of unit issues.

Any idea what the main problems seem to be? Is there a recurring issue for instance?

 

[superkev]

Any idea what the main problems seem to be? Is there a recurring issue for instance?

I hear that compressors and software seem to be the main problems with all CAF units.
Not all coaches on a unit have compressors which increases to workload on the rest which possibly aren't up to the job.
K

 

[samuelmorris]

I hear that compressors and software seem to be the main problems with all CAF units.
Not all coaches on a unit have compressors which increases to workload on the rest which possibly aren't up to the job.
K

Can't comment on the 397s but given the 331 compressors sound like they're bolted directly to the seats perhaps that's not surprising! It's normal not to have a compressor in every vehicle of a multiple unit, so that's no excuse!

 

[hexagon789]

I hear that compressors and software seem to be the main problems with all CAF units.
Not all coaches on a unit have compressors which increases to workload on the rest which possibly aren't up to the job.
K

I would presume for a five-car there are likely two. It might be that they aren't sufficient of course.

 

[driver9000]

The 397 has 2 main compressors and 2 auxiliary compressors (for raising the pantograph on a flat unit). The whole 5 car set can be fed comfortably from 1 compressor.

 

[samuelmorris]

Most modern stock in the UK appears to use the same compressors so I'd be curious to see if CAF's are different, especially if they're proving a common failure point.

 

[Jamesrob637]

1S30 fully cancelled and 1M86 part cancelled Glasgow to Carlisle due to a unit fault.

There are unfortunately still a fair few cancellations as a result of unit issues.

I think I'll give it a while before I'm in one of these again on the Anglo-Scottish line. Rather take the Hazel Grove to Blackpool North as they're 6-car now and change in Preston onto Avanti.

 

[hexagon789]

The 397 has 2 main compressors and 2 auxiliary compressors (for raising the pantograph on a flat unit). The whole 5 car set can be fed comfortably from 1 compressor.

That's what I'd expect, so what's the issue then if one is sufficient? Or isn't there one and it's actually something else?

 

[bengley]

I've not heard of any failures due to compressors failing on 397s. They are often running around with compressor faults, but these are software glitches and there isn't actually a problem with them.

 

[driver9000]

That's what I'd expect, so what's the issue then if one is sufficient? Or isn't there one and it's actually something else?

I'm not aware of any issues with the air compressors or air system in general on the 397. Occasionally you'll get a set with a compressor isolated but that in itself won't cause any problems. The units are steadily improving overall.

 

[Fokx]

The 397s are prone to engines overheating. It’s been one of the main problems the last few months with the warmer weather of late with CAF looking for appropriate solutions

 

[samuelmorris]

The 397s are prone to engines overheating. It’s been one of the main problems the last few months and CAF have been looking at appropriate solutions

Engines overheating? Are you sure about that?

 

[Fokx]

Engines overheating? Are you sure about that?

According to MD Liz Collins

 

[Domh245]

It'd be quite impressive for a train without any engines fitted to have overheating engines! Perhaps this is referring to the traction equipment?

 

[samuelmorris]

Either that or she actually means the 802s.

 

[Fokx]

It'd be quite impressive for a train without any engines fitted to have overheating engines! Perhaps this is referring to the traction equipment?

Apologies yes it is the traction equipment (lack of sleep on my part)

One of the quotes states

“The warm weather in the last couple of weeks has brought to light a number of underlying problems that unfortunately are often inevitable with new trains; for example, we have seen a spate of incidents where units have overheated. The good news is, that based on the initial work that has been done, we’re already starting to see a reduction in the number of reported defects.“

 

[LOL The Irony]

They have no cowling around the sides, how are the motors overheating?

 

[37057]

They have no cowling around the sides, how are the motors overheating?

I'd guess it's transformer or traction converter cooling rather than traction motors but I'm not a 397er so don't know the specifics. Anything underframe that relies on air flow for cooling risks becoming clogged.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm not aware of any issues with the air compressors or air system in general on the 397. Occasionally you'll get a set with a compressor isolated but that in itself won't cause any problems. The units are steadily improving overall.

So not the compressors but as others have seemingly outlined the traction motors. That I can understand more.

They have no cowling around the sides, how are the motors overheating?

334s/385s are quite prone so it doesn't surprise me a lot.

 

[driver9000]

I'd guess it's transformer or traction converter cooling rather than traction motors but I'm not a 397er so don't know the specifics. Anything underframe that relies on air flow for cooling risks becoming clogged.

It's the filters on the Auxiliary Power Supply equipment (ACU on a 350) which were getting clogged with pollen. This has been rectified now and was a similar affliction on the 350. It wasn't necessarily causing the unit to fail in traffic but it would mean they would run on reduced power. Depending on which end of the unit the problem occurred on would determine how much traction power is available.

 

[37057]

It's the filters on the Auxiliary Power Supply equipment (ACU on a 350) which were getting clogged with pollen. This has been rectified now and was a similar affliction on the 350. It wasn't necessarily causing the unit to fail in traffic but it would mean they would run on reduced power. Depending on which end of the unit the problem occurred on would determine how much traction power is available.

You may remember a couple of summers ago when the 350s were doing it then? In that case it was the transformer radiators that were becoming clogged. They were being cleaned regularly but then suddenly the lot started to drop like flies in the space of a few days!

On another note I seem to remember there was a specific time of year the frequency monitors in the ACUs would trip too, and for no apparent reason.

 

[driver9000]

On another note I seem to remember there was a specific time of year the frequency monitors in the ACUs would trip too, and for no apparent reason.

Yes, it usually happened around the same location too.