Face coverings mandatory in shops in Scotland

[Llanigraham]

To those that ask what can shops do about people not wearing them on entry, it is quite simple. They can refuse you entry; their shop, their rules!

 

[adc82140]

In normal circumstances I would agree with that but there's been a real nasty streak in people regarding face coverings and not realising just how many people are exempt. It's a far greater number and I know as soon as I go outside again I will likely need to explain my exemption about a hundred times only for it to never be believed because I don't look like I have any disability. Had Aspergers for as long as I remember and it's something I've been told constantly for years up until fairly recently

You do not have to explain your exemption to anybody except the police. "I have a medical exemption" will be enough. If a police officer wants to know more, ask to go somewhere quiet. If anyone else wants to know more, tell them politely to move on and leave you alone.

 

[Mojo]

Increasingly, the purpose seems to be largely political rather than public health. Especially in the US, where it mostly seems to polarise pro- and anti-Trump supporters.

I think almost _everything_ in America is political. I had a very interesting chat with some locals up a mountain when in Arkansas last summer. He was telling me that pretty much everything people do there is considered a political statement - even down to cars people drive, with those wanting to show off their environmental credentials driving small compacts even if they are totally unsuitable for their lifestyle, or people driving monster trucks when they live in a town, just to prove a point, that they can!

 

[route101]

In normal circumstances I would agree with that but there's been a real nasty streak in people regarding face coverings and not realising just how many people are exempt. It's a far greater number and I know as soon as I go outside again I will likely need to explain my exemption about a hundred times only for it to never be believed because I don't look like I have any disability. Had Aspergers for as long as I remember and it's something I've been told constantly for years up until fairly recently

Wouldnt worry about going outside and people questioning why you dont have a mask. Are you going out for walks?

 

[PaulMc7]

Wouldnt worry about going outside and people questioning why you dont have a mask. Are you going out for walks?

Not been since the end of May but sleep schedule wasn't too great and I was waiting on the 5 mile rule being relaxed here to consider where to go as it's all supermarkets around from me so harder to distance

 

[route101]

Not been since the end of May but sleep schedule wasn't too great and I was waiting on the 5 mile rule being relaxed here to consider where to go as it's all supermarkets around from me so harder to distance

The five mile rule has been dropped. I went to Edinburgh other day. Cant be good to stay indoors

 

[PaulMc7]

The five mile rule has been dropped. I went to Edinburgh other day. Cant be good to stay indoors

I know. Weather has been mostly crap though here haha. It's not ideal but it saves money

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Back in Tesco Falkirk this Morning (sans mask )

Masks are coming but the one way system and all it's arrows have gone to be replaced with "2M Social Distancing" discs.

Legal "double-back" is back !!

My local Tesco has just started selling masks, also available for click and collect or home delivery! £6.50 for 10 single use disposables. I can get a near identical item on-line for £1.75 including postage. I smell profit here.

Next obvious step, the security guard forcing you to pay 65p for a mask just to enter the store.

There is a groundswell of snowflakexperts in England wanting them to be worn all the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a groundswell of snowflakexperts in England wanting them to be worn all the time.

I'm not sure casting insults at those who disagree with you is the right way to go.

Personally, I would like to see them made mandatory in all public indoor settings for a period of time with the medical exceptions and also except while eating and drinking, during that period nothing else about how the virus is managed should change. One month should be enough. That way we would know, in exchange for a minor inconvenience, if they make a considerable difference.

If they don't, the requirement would be abolished at the end of the period.

If they do significantly, they may allow a policy of elimination to be followed, and so they should be retained until a sustained period of zero deaths/cases.

 

[adc82140]

OK I'd go with that if there was a specified end date.

My local Tesco has just started selling masks, also available for click and collect or home delivery! £6.50 for 10 single use disposables. I can get a near identical item on-line for £1.75 including postage. I smell profit here.

There needs to be a government required fixed price for face masks. Another reason why I'm not shopping at Tesco

 

[MikeWM]

Personally, I would like to see them made mandatory in all public indoor settings for a period of time with the medical exceptions and also except while eating and drinking, during that period nothing else about how the virus is managed should change. One month should be enough. That way we would know, in exchange for a minor inconvenience, if they make a considerable difference.

If they don't, the requirement would be abolished at the end of the period.

If they do significantly, they may allow a policy of elimination to be followed, and so they should be retained until a sustained period of zero deaths/cases.

How would you tell 'if they make a considerable difference'? There are far too many other variables in play.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How would you tell 'if they make a considerable difference'? There are far too many other variables in play.

The quotes I've seen give a very considerable impact on transmission. If this is true, the curve would change substantially. It's not perfect, but what is?

 

[takno]

My local Tesco has just started selling masks, also available for click and collect or home delivery! £6.50 for 10 single use disposables. I can get a near identical item on-line for £1.75 including postage. I smell profit here.

Next obvious step, the security gaurd forcing you to pay 65p for a mask just to enter the store.

There is a groundswell of snowflakexperts in England wanting them to be worn all the time.

I paid that, mostly because I intended to make just the one pack last the whole disease. Assuming that I won't be able to manage that, the next pack will certainly come from online.

 

[Non Multi]

My local Tesco has just started selling masks, also available for click and collect or home delivery! £6.50 for 10 single use disposables. I can get a near identical item on-line for £1.75 including postage. I smell profit here.

Next obvious step, the security gaurd forcing you to pay 65p for a mask just to enter the store.

There is a groundswell of snowflakexperts in England wanting them to be worn all the time.

They are nearly twice the price for a 10 pack at my local corner shop, so the profit is in bulk purchasing.

 

[MikeWM]

The quotes I've seen give a very considerable impact on transmission. If this is true, the curve would change substantially. It's not perfect, but what is?

I think the current numbers (~500 infections a day) are way too small to be able to draw any conclusions - other factors may well be in play, even such mundane ones as the weather.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I'm not sure casting insults at those who disagree with you is the right way to go.

Personally, I would like to see them made mandatory in all public indoor settings for a period of time with the medical exceptions and also except while eating and drinking, during that period nothing else about how the virus is managed should change. One month should be enough. That way we would know, in exchange for a minor inconvenience, if they make a considerable difference.

If they don't, the requirement would be abolished at the end of the period.

If they do significantly, they may allow a policy of elimination to be followed, and so they should be retained until a sustained period of zero deaths/cases.

Yes, it is.

I'm talking about the professionals here who seem more intent on getting the name of their organisation in the media than making real scientific advance.

They need putting back in their boxes and the lids fastening firmly shut until there is proper, scientific, peer reviewed evidence that face coverings (or indeed any other measure) is significantly effective. Face coverings undoubtedly reduce transmission - but by how much and in which specific circumstances? Wearing a pink and yellow striped shirt would also reduce transmission, probably by a similar amount, according to the as yet unpublished and certainly not peer reviewed Baxenden Study.

Unless there are aspects to this virus and it's propogation / elimination that we are not being told about, zero deaths/cases is not going to be achieved within our lifetimes without a significant reduction in population movement, interaction and residential density. Ain't gonna happen in the 'developed' world.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

OK I'd go with that if there was a specified end date.



There needs to be a government required fixed price for face masks. Another reason why I'm not shopping at Tesco

Other countries issued them for free. Seems never to be mentioned for the UK.

 

[nlogax]

Yes, it is.

Play the ball, not the player.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Play the ball, not the player.

There is no ball. Or it is out of the ground and even the players are desperately searching for it.

Face coverings have minimal benefit for the wearer and slightly better benefit in preventing transmission by the wearer to others. That has been known for a long time. In a clinical setting it is important, in a social setting the evidence is spurious to say the least. Coronavirus has some interesting, different characteristics to otherwise similar viruses which no-one yet understands. Life needs to continue in the meantime as the alternative (living in caves and hunting woolly mammoth) does not appeal personally.

 

[bramling]

Yes, it is.

I'm talking about the professionals here who seem more intent on getting the name of their organisation in the media than making real scientific advance.

They need putting back in their boxes and the lids fastening firmly shut until there is proper, scientific, peer reviewed evidence that face coverings (or indeed any other measure) is significantly effective. Face coverings undoubtedly reduce transmission - but by how much and in which specific circumstances? Wearing a pink and yellow striped shirt would also reduce transmission, probably by a similar amount, according to the as yet unpublished and certainly not peer reviewed Baxenden Study.

Unless there are aspects to this virus and it's propogation / elimination that we are not being told about, zero deaths/cases is not going to be achieved within our lifetimes without a significant reduction in population movement, interaction and residential density. Ain't gonna happen in the 'developed' world.

Sums things up perfectly.

 

[adc82140]

How would you tell 'if they make a considerable difference'? There are far too many other variables in play.

The biggest one being the drop in the virus's incidence in the community. I could understand if face coverings were mandated back in March, but not now.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm talking about the professionals here who seem more intent on getting the name of their organisation in the media than making real scientific advance.

They need putting back in their boxes and the lids fastening firmly shut until there is proper, scientific, peer reviewed evidence that face coverings (or indeed any other measure) is significantly effective.

Most of them are academics that don't live in the real world - they live in rarefied world of job security and academic tenure. I'm not saying they are not entitled to their opinions but government policy must not be dictated by them such as the mandatory wearing of face coverings in shops in Scotland.

 

[MikeWM]

The biggest one being the drop in the virus's incidence in the community.

Yes, but that's happening anyway. How could you differentiate the effect from masking from what would happen anyway due to other factors (eg. potential mutation of the virus, weather, increasing immunity, etc. etc.)?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

I, along with many people I know in Dumfries and Galloway, will start shopping across the border as of Friday. A much more pleasant experience for not much of a journey!

We can wave at the border!

I will be amongst those from Cumbria heading north to shop in places that value our health.

 

[adc82140]

Yes, but that's happening anyway. How could you differentiate the effect from masking from what would happen anyway due to other factors (eg. potential mutation of the virus, weather, increasing immunity, etc. etc.)?

That was my point

 

[Journeyman]

We can wave at the border!

I will be amongst those from Cumbria heading north to shop in places that value our health.

This has got absolutely nothing to do with your health, and a lot to do with Sturgeon getting re-elected in May.

 

[takno]

We can wave at the border!

I will be amongst those from Cumbria heading north to shop in places that value our health.

Worth bearing in mind that the shops have generally indicated that they don't want the masks, the staff mostly hate the idea, and both customers and staff will be constantly fiddling with the masks and then touching the goods. All social distancing will also be out of the window because of the magic masks.

Nobody will be valuing your health at all

 

[MikeWM]

That was my point

Ah, so it was

 

[Richard Scott]

This has got absolutely nothing to do with your health, and a lot to do with Sturgeon getting re-elected in May.

She just values the vote not anyone's health.

 

[Scrotnig]

We can wave at the border!

I will be amongst those from Cumbria heading north to shop in places that value our health.

You think they value your health? Oh dear!