Speculation: How could Hull Trains and Grand Central be saved?

[Bletchleyite]

So you think all ECML mainline trains should go to Leeds and Newcastle and nowhere else then?

No, but I would use portion working to ensure that the trains leaving London are full-length even if they later split. However I also don't see why quality connections (yes, I know) can't be used for some destinations instead, Hull might be one, as might say Bradford. For instance, Blackpool North has a frequent service to Preston (2tph to London, 1 fast and 1 slow) and on to Manchester (3tph to London), so I can't see any point whatsoever in a couple of through trains a day which when I've seen them they've been empty - a connection is much more likely to be convenient.

 

[Glenn1969]

I live on the GC route and know how well used it has become. I hope on 12 July it comes back. LNER and predecessors never had any intention of serving Halifax or Bradford Int but GC have now made it work for 10 years so there must be a market for it. I have used it myself albeit not recently (I am heavily involved in British basketball as a Club Chairman and supporter of National Teams so do need to travel to London sometimes and having a direct service comes in handy)

 

[35B]

No, but I would use portion working to ensure that the trains leaving London are full-length even if they later split. However I also don't see why quality connections (yes, I know) can't be used for some destinations instead, Hull might be one, as might say Bradford. For instance, Blackpool North has a frequent service to Preston (2tph to London, 1 fast and 1 slow) and on to Manchester (3tph to London), so I can't see any point whatsoever in a couple of through trains a day which when I've seen them they've been empty - a connection is much more likely to be convenient.

A connection is not always more convenient; there are many for whom a through service has significant advantages over an enforced change of train.

I also struggle with the idea that enforced splitting and joining must optimise efficiency. The ECML has coped with increasing franchised operator traffic even as open access usage has increased. My recollection is that platform capacity at Doncaster is sufficiently stretched that portion working would do more damage to capacity than the current arrangements.

 

[class26]

I live on the GC route and know how well used it has become. I hope on 12 July it comes back. LNER and predecessors never had any intention of serving Halifax or Bradford Int but GC have now made it work for 10 years so there must be a market for it. I have used it myself albeit not recently (I am heavily involved in British basketball as a Club Chairman and supporter of National Teams so do need to travel to London sometimes and having a direct service comes in handy)

But would it work without the ORCATS fares from Doncaster ?

 

[Dr Hoo]

But would it work without the ORCATS fares from Doncaster ?

Judging by the huge proportion of reserved seats on Hull Trains services from Doncaster in normal times (I don't use Grand Central very often) I get the impression that very few London journeys nowadays are made on inter-available tickets. I sometimes travel up to London with LNER, joining a family member who comes from Leeds, and again seem to be surrounded by travellers with train/operator-specific tickets.

 

[westv]

Grand Central now have plans to start a gradual return from 26/7.

 

[anthony263]

Grand Central now have plans to start a gradual return from 26/7.

And I noticed a different message to customers compared to franchised operators

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I noticed a different message to customers compared to franchised operators

Much more like a bus company - because they don't get (all of) their money if they don't carry anyone!

 

[cle]

But would it work without the ORCATS fares from Doncaster ?

Is Doncaster really that lucrative as a destination, on open/flexible tickets?