Preston Bus - Lancashire County Council Contracts

[carlberry]

Seems a little odd that the Preston area timetables shows to commence this Sunday but the publicity says 19/7 especially when we are told not to use public transport unless it's essential atm.

The statement from yesterday about the 4th July changes was 'avoid public transport if possible', nothing about essential.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The statement from yesterday about the 4th July changes was 'avoid public transport if possible', nothing about essential.

Surely that if you can avoid it if possible, it is thereby not essential.

I mean you'll always get the grade A tools who will claim it is absolutely essential for them to travel about on buses and trains for their mental well being as opposed to, oh I don't know, going for a walk or cycle. This includes gricers, and ironically enough, bullet proof pensioners who fancy a trip out.

However unless you are going to work (and cannot work from home) or are going shopping (and even then, stay as local as you can), then the guidance is clear and everyone should avoid public transport unless it's the last resort.

 

[northern506]

Full details can be seen here - https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/roads...ce-changes/bus-service-changes-for-july-2020/

 

[peterblue]

A lot of these service boosts seem unnecessary given my understanding of how each route generally performs.

 

[RustySpoons]

A lot of these service boosts seem unnecessary given my understanding of how each route generally performs.

That's LCC for you. I've often thought it's a waste of time increasing frequencies on relatively quiet day time only services when evening services are practically none existent, which has a knock on effect of commercially operated daytime services suffering because there's no bus for people to return home on in the evening.

 

[Aaron Ashton]

Stupidly...LCC have intention to re-operate Service 15 Clitheroe-Accrington-Royal Blackburn Hospital......bearing in mind pilkingtonbus operate their service 15 between Clitheroe-Accrington (fair point only school days) but it operates over 2 commercial pilkingtons routes (1 Ossy-Accrington-Clayton and said 15) which seems stupid to me....

 

[Stan Drews]

Stupidly...LCC have intention to re-operate Service 15 Clitheroe-Accrington-Royal Blackburn Hospital......bearing in mind pilkingtonbus operate their service 15 between Clitheroe-Accrington (fair point only school days) but it operates over 2 commercial pilkingtons routes (1 Ossy-Accrington-Clayton and said 15) which seems stupid to me....

Presumably it also operates over parts of the 6/7 Hyndburn circulars too. Although, there are very few tendered services which don’t have some sections that overlap with the commercial network.

 

[RustySpoons]

It's a shame Pilkingtons didn't get the 'new' 15 too considering they've already got decent links in and around Clitheroe, it'd make things easier for folk to travel with a day/week ticket.

 

[Aaron Ashton]

Presumably it also operates over parts of the 6/7 Hyndburn circulars too. Although, there are very few tendered services which don’t have some sections that overlap with the commercial network.

Yeah, if you were to look where it operates, the 'new' 15 operates over pilkingtonbus Route 14 Clitheroe-Whalley-Gt Harwood-Rishton-Clayton-Accrington, Great Harwood-Rishton Transdev 6/7, Rishton-Clayton Transdev 152, Clayton-Accrington-Oswaldtwistle (both pilkingtonbus 1/14/15 and Transdev 6/7) The only place it runs somewhere not served by commercial is the Accrington-RBH section....what would have made sense would have been to work with pilkingtonbus to increase the journeys on their 14/15 and extend to RBH (like they have worked with Transdev....) Also weirdly, on the LCC website states the 15 will run up to hourly....but the service is showing as operating every 90 minutes?.....

It's a shame Pilkingtons didn't get the 'new' 15 too considering they've already got decent links in and around Clitheroe, it'd make things easier for folk to travel with a day/week ticket.

I think it might have been looked at by Alan, however a pilkingtons commercial ticket isn't valid on tendered services and vice versa which is stupid....

 

[M60lad]

Looking at some of these routes, some of them are routes that used to operate via similar routes upto a number of years ago until LCC withdrew the tenders or funding for them, I certainly remember an Accrington-Blackburn via Hospital service that was operated by Holmeswood, infact it was Holmeswood that operated most of these Lancashire Tenders once over.

I'm surprised that one route their not changing is the Nelson-Clitheroe service that seems to be staying as it is for now.

Also probably due to them thinking it might not work I think that they might have missed a trick in not reintroducing the Blackburn-Leyland service.

 

[52290]

Looking at some of these routes, some of them are routes that used to operate via similar routes upto a number of years ago until LCC withdrew the tenders or funding for them, I certainly remember an Accrington-Blackburn via Hospital service that was operated by Holmeswood, infact it was Holmeswood that operated most of these Lancashire Tenders once over.

I'm surprised that one route their not changing is the Nelson-Clitheroe service that seems to be staying as it is for now.

Also probably due to them thinking it might not work I think that they might have missed a trick in not reintroducing the Blackburn-Leyland service.

Bus services in Leyland have been rubbish ever since Fishwicks went bust five years ago.

 

[preston85]

Bus services in Leyland have been rubbish ever since Fishwicks went bust five years ago.

Unfortunately Holmeswood are taking over the 112, 114, 337 and 347. Expect things to get worse.....

 

[darloscott]

Unsurprisingly it's a council doing things it's own way because that's what they've always done. Instead of working with operators to find out where the money would be best spent, perhaps extending already existing services or even kickstarting new ideas which could extend the commercial network in the long term.

 

[class17]

Full details can be seen here - https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/roads...ce-changes/bus-service-changes-for-july-2020/

I had a look at that, but it doesn't seem very detailed though.

The detail seems to be in each leaflet that they quote, but there is no link to these leaflets. I cannot seem to find any links on the LCC website to the leaflets. I presume this is because LCC don't actually have the leaflets ready yet, or have I missed them on the LCC website.

I also presume it is also too early to see what the ticketing arrangements will be, this link appears to show the ticket prices before the change. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/roads-parking-and-travel/public-transport/local-bus-tickets/

 

[LancasterRed]

Blackpool Transport have been training in Preston recently. Believe the 75 route will be changed to accommodate this.

Preston Bus were stripped of the 77 and 77A a while back for poor performance.

None of this surprises me.

 

[LancasterRed]

I've had a proper look through the changes and have to admit, every single one is progressive. It's a shame Coastal Coaches have failed but with passenger unfriendly policies and decreasing reliability this became an inevitability.

So my thoughts:

• Blackpool's acquisition of the Preston West services make me think they will take the 31 in the next timetable change, renumber it to 71 and increase reliability. This has been a long overdue change as Preston Bus have long neglected the most overcrowded service in the city.
• These changes also fix the 15 which never ran to Broughton, and is now an extra express service covering small villages and is also a progressive change.
• The 75 returns to its old route, increasing capacity between Preston and Ashton. I suspect this will eventually merge with the 31, as aforementioned; it would require a slight deviation to work.
• The 43 returns for the third time, albeit this time in a completely new route bolstering links between Cottam and the railway station. I hope this is not a substitute for Cottam Parkway but this was also an urgently needed service - the 44 suffered serious overcrowding.
• Preston Bus are selling 5 double deckers despite overcrowding issues. I'm confused, but sure.

 

[northern506]

I've had a proper look through the changes and have to admit, every single one is progressive. It's a shame Coastal Coaches have failed but with passenger unfriendly policies and decreasing reliability this became an inevitability.

So my thoughts:

• Blackpool's acquisition of the Preston West services make me think they will take the 31 in the next timetable change, renumber it to 71 and increase reliability. This has been a long overdue change as Preston Bus have long neglected the most overcrowded service in the city.
• These changes also fix the 15 which never ran to Broughton, and is now an extra express service covering small villages and is also a progressive change.
• The 75 returns to its old route, increasing capacity between Preston and Ashton. I suspect this will eventually merge with the 31, as aforementioned; it would require a slight deviation to work.
• The 43 returns for the third time, albeit this time in a completely new route bolstering links between Cottam and the railway station. I hope this is not a substitute for Cottam Parkway but this was also an urgently needed service - the 44 suffered serious overcrowding.
• Preston Bus are selling 5 double deckers despite overcrowding issues. I'm confused, but sure.

I am not surprised either with Preston Bus losing so many contracts, alongside Rotala operated Diamond North West they are two of the most terrible bus operators I have come across. Diamond North West have recently converted a perfectly usable Trident to open top for some unknown reason, despite overcrowding and shortages within Greater Manchester, sounds similar to Preston Bus neglecting these issues.

My experiences with Blackpool Transport are generally good, so I hope they can improve the services within Preston West and Flyde. I wonder what will be allocated to the newly gained services.

 

[LancasterRed]

My experiences with Blackpool Transport are generally good, so I hope they can improve the services within Preston West and Flyde. I wonder what will be allocated to the newly gained services.

The 74 must be single decker and the 75 looks like it'll have increased capacity. From Wikipedia Blackpool Transport run: "The most common single deck type is the Alexander Dennis Enviro200, with eighteen examples in service. Other types include nine Volvo B7RLEs (nine Plaxton Centros and ten high specification Mercedes-Benz Citaros." As such, I suspect they will rotate these in, maybe purchasing Preston Bus' sale VolveB5s to bolster capacity on other routes.

That said, the 74 will travel down some intensively fast routes and may need to deviate to midibus operation. I'm not sure if any of BPT's current buses can cope.

Blackpool Transport are outstanding and I'm excited to see what they bring to Preston.

 

[carlberry]

So my thoughts:

• Preston Bus are selling 5 double deckers despite overcrowding issues. I'm confused, but sure.

They're offering 5 first generation hybrids for sale, similar vehicles from London have already been converted to open top then subsequently scrapped and plenty of others have been re-engined. If they can sell them they get rid of a problem!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They're offering 5 first generation hybrids for sale, similar vehicles from London have already been converted to open top then subsequently scrapped and plenty of others have been reenginered. If they can sell them they get rid of a problem!

Those the 2013 B5LHs?

It's sadly par for the course with the earlier hybrids as batteries have become degraded and their replacement expensive. Many have been withdrawn and scrapped (Wright HEVs), First have a batch of e400Hs that haven't worked for two years in Bath (save a couple), and East Yorkshire and Go North East have converted e400Hs and B5LHs to diesel power. Not a cheap exercise.

 

[LancasterRed]

They're offering 5 first generation hybrids for sale, similar vehicles from London have already been converted to open top then subsequently scrapped and plenty of others have been re-engined. If they can sell them they get rid of a problem!

They're their flagship buses and used for crowdbusting on occasion. I'd hope they're properly replaced.

 

[Ant158]

Yeah, if you were to look where it operates, the 'new' 15 operates over pilkingtonbus Route 14 Clitheroe-Whalley-Gt Harwood-Rishton-Clayton-Accrington, Great Harwood-Rishton Transdev 6/7, Rishton-Clayton Transdev 152, Clayton-Accrington-Oswaldtwistle (both pilkingtonbus 1/14/15 and Transdev 6/7) The only place it runs somewhere not served by commercial is the Accrington-RBH section....what would have made sense would have been to work with pilkingtonbus to increase the journeys on their 14/15 and extend to RBH (like they have worked with Transdev....) Also weirdly, on the LCC website states the 15 will run up to hourly....but the service is showing as operating every 90 minutes?.....

I think it might have been looked at by Alan, however a pilkingtons commercial ticket isn't valid on tendered services and vice versa which is stupid....

Pilkingtons only operate very few journeys on the 14, no good for shoppers or commuters. The 17.15 bus from Accrington to Clitheroe for example used to be packed when Lancashire United ran it as the 241. It gives a direct link between Clitheroe, Whalley and Great Harwood, and also the 152 doesn’t actually serve Accrington therefore it direct links from Rishton to Accrington without going via Great Harwood. I do agree that for most of the day it used to carry fresh air though.

 

[WestCoast]

Blackpool Transport have been training in Preston recently. Believe the 75 route will be changed to accommodate this.

Very interesting, I may be wrong but I don't think Blackpool Transport have operated any LCC bus services into Preston for many years?

I know they had been a frequent sight at Preston on the recent rail replacement operation, but specifically referring to bus services I think the last time may have been the Evening/Sundays journeys they did on the old 58(158?) the Blackpool-Wrea Green-Kirkham-Preston semi-fast service that's now the Stagecoach 61. I can remember riding on their old Optare Deltas with the coach seating which were pefect for the route, but also on the awful old Metroriders which provided to be a terrible ride on the A583! That was defintely in their Metro Coastlines era maybe ending around 2005?

 

[randyrippley]

Those the 2013 B5LHs?

It's sadly par for the course with the earlier hybrids as batteries have become degraded and their replacement expensive. Many have been withdrawn and scrapped (Wright HEVs), First have a batch of e400Hs that haven't worked for two years in Bath (save a couple), and East Yorkshire and Go North East have converted e400Hs and B5LHs to diesel power. Not a cheap exercise.

funny you say that, as a couple of pink liveried ex-First Bath deckers turned up in Preston in service last year, presumably for Preston Bus. They still carried Bath branding and decals

 

[LancasterRed]

Very interesting, I may be wrong but I don't think Blackpool Transport have operated any LCC bus services into Preston for many years?

I know they had been a frequent sight at Preston on the recent rail replacement operation, but specifically referring to bus services I think the last time may have been the Evening/Sundays journeys they did on the old 58(158?) the Blackpool-Wrea Green-Kirkham-Preston semi-fast service that's now the Stagecoach 61. I can remember riding on their old Optare Deltas with the coach seating which were pefect for the route, but also on the awful old Metroriders which provided to be a terrible ride on the A583! That was defintely in their Metro Coastlines era maybe ending around 2005?

I never knew they did the 58 - I assumed that was wholly Stagecoach.

In terms of regular services though - yes.

As a bit extra, yes, Coastal Coaches have indeed been stripped of their tender just over 4 months into their 24 month contract. It's a shame they declined so fast, after an exceptional start

 

[cnjb8]

They're offering 5 first generation hybrids for sale, similar vehicles from London have already been converted to open top then subsequently scrapped and plenty of others have been re-engined. If they can sell them they get rid of a problem!

Those the 2013 B5LHs?

It's sadly par for the course with the earlier hybrids as batteries have become degraded and their replacement expensive. Many have been withdrawn and scrapped (Wright HEVs), First have a batch of e400Hs that haven't worked for two years in Bath (save a couple), and East Yorkshire and Go North East have converted e400Hs and B5LHs to diesel power. Not a cheap exercise.

They're their flagship buses and used for crowdbusting on occasion. I'd hope they're properly replaced.

The first Wright StreetDecks have arrived at Preston, presumably to replace the Volvo B5LHs.

 

[LancasterRed]

Wonderful to hear. May I ask where you sourced this information? It would be very useful to keep more up to date.

 

[carlberry]

Wonderful to hear. May I ask where you sourced this information? It would be very useful to keep more up to date.

It was on Twitter and also quoted on another thread on this site:

bus-deliveries-restarted thread

 

[LancasterRed]

It was on Twitter and also quoted on another thread on this site:

bus-deliveries-restarted thread

Wonderful; it might do me well to use Twitter more to get upcoming news rather than for juvenile nonsense like I tend to use it for now.

 

[winston270twm]

I am not surprised either with Preston Bus losing so many contracts, alongside Rotala operated Diamond North West they are two of the most terrible bus operators I have come across. Diamond North West have recently converted a perfectly usable Trident to open top for some unknown reason, despite overcrowding and shortages within Greater Manchester, sounds similar to Preston Bus neglecting these issues.

My experiences with Blackpool Transport are generally good, so I hope they can improve the services within Preston West and Flyde. I wonder what will be allocated to the newly gained services.

No they haven't. The Trident was taken in to stock already in open top format.