Future of cities in the Post Covid-19 world?

[philosopher]

On the surface of it, it looks like cities are in for a troubled time after all this, after all social distancing and high population density do not mix. However I have read some articles saying it may be an opportunity for cities to reinvent themselves.

So what do people here think the long term impact of Covid-19 will be on cities? Are they in trouble, or will they bounce back?

 

[Enthusiast]

There are great plans to reorganise the way City workers work - working at home, disbursing to smaller towns, etc. None will come to much fruition. A year or so after the virus has retreated to the background (which it will) most people will have returned to their previous ways of working and we will all be wondering what the fuss was all about.

 

[philosopher]

There are great plans to reorganise the way City workers work - working at home, disbursing to smaller towns, etc. None will come to much fruition. A year or so after the virus has retreated to the background (which it will) most people will have returned to their previous ways of working and we will all be wondering what the fuss was all about.

The impact of the working from home experiment is a tricky one on how it will play out. On the one hand loads of workers are saying they love working from home, employers are saying it has gone a lot better than expected and quite a few companies are saying they are going to downsize their office or in some cases not bother with an office at all.

On the other hand there is growing concern that parts of the economy that depend on office workers, such as sandwich shops, pubs in business districts, public transport, formal clothing shops, office real estate, etc will suffer considerably. There is also the whole city vibrancy issue. I know both Sadiq Khan and Andy Burnham have expressed these concerns. Plus some workers clearly do not like it.

The home working experiment in my view has not been going on for long enough to properly assess its advantages and disadvantages.

 

[yorkie]

Social distancing won't, and can't , be a long term thing. It's as simple as that.

..The home working experiment in my view has not been going on for long enough to properly assess its advantages and disadvantages.

Agreed.

You may find this thread interesting:

Remote working preferences (in the longer term)

This is question for people who do jobs that can, at least in part, be done by working from home. Obviously this question doesn't apply to everyone as there are many jobs that cannot be done from home. When this situation is over, what would your preferred working be? Working from home all...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[yorksrob]

Yep, cities will bounce back.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Back to more or less normal by Christmas shopping time. However Christmas markets may be a reduced affair this year with only half the amount of stalls in place and more open spaces as many people outside of the same bubbles will still willingly keep 1m or so apart.

 

[yorksrob]

Back to more or less normal by Christmas shopping time. However Christmas markets may be a reduced affair this year with only half the amount of stalls in place and more open spaces as many people outside of the same bubbles will still willingly keep 1m or so apart.

We've already had the size of the beer shed reduced at the behest of the puritan element of the population.

 

[philosopher]

We've already had the size of the beer shed reduced at the behest of the puritan element of the population.

I friend I spoke to last weekend thought the Birmingham Christmas market will not go ahead this year. The number of people there normally frequently resembles the tube at rush hour. Moving at all, let alone staying 2 metres away from people can be challenging there.

 

[yorksrob]

I friend I spoke to last weekend thought the Birmingham Christmas market will not go ahead this year. The number of people there normally frequently resembles the tube at rush hour. Moving at all, let alone staying 2 metres away from people can be challenging there.

My office is normally about two minutes walk from it, but I'mnot convinced we'll be back in by then.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Way way before COVID I used to see ( a cultural thing obviously) Asian people wearing masks. I feel cities will survive but that mask wearing rather than social distancing will become more widespread and no longer a cultural thing. Social distancing can not continue forever. Mask wearing could more easily especially in cities.

 

[BJames]

I friend I spoke to last weekend thought the Birmingham Christmas market will not go ahead this year. The number of people there normally frequently resembles the tube at rush hour. Moving at all, let alone staying 2 metres away from people can be challenging there.

That market can't go ahead with distancing. I couldn't believe how many people there were when I went last year... quite a few people travelling in to go there by the looks of things as well, with New Street station busy and even posters up about travel to the Christmas market.

In terms of cities I agree that working from home has not gone on long enough yet for us to get a conclusive picture, but I personally wouldn't want to work from home for the medium or long term. Let's get our cities up and running again.

 

[sheff1]

It seems the traffic is already getting close to the previous volumes. The ability to cross the A61 without the need to walk to a pedesttian crossing (which was the situation in April/early May) has long gone. Meanwhile buses conveying half a dozen passengers travel up and down with "Bus Full" on the display and trams trudle past with very few people on board - 2 out of 4 I saw today had no passengers at all.

So it would appear increased pollution is the future, alongside plastic screens all over the place.

 

[Non Multi]

There are great plans to reorganise the way City workers work - working at home, disbursing to smaller towns, etc. None will come to much fruition. A year or so after the virus has retreated to the background (which it will) most people will have returned to their previous ways of working and we will all be wondering what the fuss was all about.

IMO the changes for office commuters will be both profound and permanent. For example, public transport strikes will in future have almost zero impact on their productivity, provided they can work from home.

Why would you want to spend every weekday huddled in big metal tubes with other half awake commuters when you can have an extra hour in bed, or enjoy a decent breakfast, or spend extra time with your family? Of course, there's a generation of 'old school' bosses who think having rows of heads at office desks is the only proper way to run things...

 

[BJames]

Why would you want to spend every weekday huddled in big metal tubes with other half awake commuters when you can have an extra hour in bed, or enjoy a decent breakfast, or spend extra time with your family? Of course, there's a generation of 'old school' bosses who think having rows of heads at office desks is the only proper way to run things...

I'm still personally of the opinion that you're not as productive at home. A lot of people don't have decent enough work spaces in their houses. Plus, in the office you can get to know your fellow colleagues and build more of a team.

This why it's more likely that companies downsize rather than completely getting rid of their offices - they can implement "hot-desking" and get people in for only a couple of days a week, and that means people can live further away if they're only travelling in once or twice a week at the most. They'd be happier to put up with a commute where they'll get a seat and can get some things done on their way in.

 

[Class 33]

Social distancing won't, and can't , be a long term thing. It's as simple as that.

Absolutely social distancing can't be a long term thing, due to all the problems it's causing. It needs to be scrapped by early September at the very latest. However that said, from watching and reading the news over the past several weeks, I am not atall confident that Boris has any plans to scrap social distancing completely anytime soon.

 

[DB]

I'm still personally of the opinion that you're not as productive at home. A lot of people don't have decent enough work spaces in their houses. Plus, in the office you can get to know your fellow colleagues and build more of a team. This is why it's more likely that companies downsize rather than completely getting rid of their offices - they can implement "hot-desking" and get people in for only a couple of days a week, and that means people can live further away if they're only travelling in once or twice a week at the most. They'd be happier to put up with a commute where they'll get a seat and can get some things done on their way in.

Many seem to have this view that everyone wants to work from home all the time, but those of us involved in planning and facilitating the recent home working aren't seeing this. At work (about 150 staff) we did a survey recently, and the results seem to have been pretty much what I expected - i.e. a fair number of people would be interested in working from home two or three days a week, but hardly anyone wants to work at home all the time permanently.

There are also of course many jobs which can't be done from home at all, or can only be done with considerably reduced effectiveness.

 

[philosopher]

IMO the changes for office commuters will be both profound and permanent. For example, public transport strikes will in future have almost zero impact on their productivity, provided they can work from home.

Why would you want to spend every weekday huddled in big metal tubes with other half awake commuters when you can have an extra hour in bed, or enjoy a decent breakfast, or spend extra time with your family? Of course, there's a generation of 'old school' bosses who think having rows of heads at office desks is the only proper way to run things...

Given the majority of city centres are taken up by offices, any large scale shift to permanent home working will inevitably result in a lot of redundant office space. Plus sandwich and coffee shops that rely on office workers will lose most of their custom. Unless another use for offices can be found then city centres could become very run down.

What happens in this respect will I think depend on whether companies conclude home working has been a success and whether the government decides to step in to maintain a large amount of office space in city centres.

 

[DB]

Way way before COVID I used to see ( a cultural thing obviously) Asian people wearing masks. I feel cities will survive but that mask wearing rather than social distancing will become more widespread and no longer a cultural thing. Social distancing can not continue forever. Mask wearing could more easily especially in cities.

I can't see that happening - most people don't like wearing them, and it's impractical in indoor areas (pubs especially) where the risk of transmission is highest, making it all fairly pointless anyway (especially given that the evidence for masks making any significant difference is weak at best in any case).

 

[yorkie]

It looks to me like everything under discussion in this thread is already under discussion elsewhere.

The following discussions may be of interest:

• Which countries recommend the use of masks or have laws mandating the use of masks?
• Cloth masks, scarves and bandanas to be 'encouraged' with no compulsion
• Remote working preferences (in the longer term)
• Pedestrianisation of streets to assist with social distancing
• The viability of social distancing, and confusion over whether it should be 1m or 2m
  

If anyone wishes to post anything that is specifically related to the title of this thread, but is not covered by any of the above threads, or any other thread, please report this post and let us know what you wish to contribute and we will be happy to consider reopening this thread