Caledonian Sleeper

[TimboM]

I don't think the track layout at Glasgow allows 1M11 to be run round / propelled although again that ECS can use the 1M16 / 1S25 engine running over from Edinburgh if they are short.

Correct - has to have an ECS shunt loco at Glasgow. A 73/9 (if available) can be used for that, though (and can be used for the Edinburgh/Carstairs portion too).

 

[TimboM]

Why was the day time Northbound pickups into Inverness only dropped from 8th of June?

I think it was because when the service was very quiet in the midst of lockdown anyone who did want to use it as a day train could be easily accommodated in a spare berth and without impinging on social distancing etc. Now passenger numbers are picking up, that's not necessarily an option.

 

[alangla]

Correct - has to have an ECS shunt loco at Glasgow. A 73/9 (if available) can be used for that, though (and can be used for the Edinburgh/Carstairs portion too).

When DB-C/EWS provided locos, the ECS was operated by whatever was spare at Mossend. Could be a 37 one night and a 60 or 92 the next. Generally a 67, 90 or 66 though. Obviously that’s not possible with Mk5s

 

[BRX]

In general, most rail services have continued running, to allow people who have to get to work and who don't have other travel means to do so... So why does the sleeper day coach get an exception? The dubious reason for closing it to overnight passengers included the length of journey but that doesn't apply to Inverness commuters.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In general, most rail services have continued running, to allow people who have to get to work and who don't have other travel means to do so... So why does the sleeper day coach get an exception? The dubious reason for closing it to overnight passengers included the length of journey but that doesn't apply to Inverness commuters.

Or indeed anyone using the Night Riviera, on which only seated accommodation is being offered!

 

[Oscar46016]

By my reckoning, factoring in the ECS moves, the 92s needed are:
1) 1S25 northbound Highland sleeper
2) 1S26 northbound Lowland sleeper
3) 5S25 and 5S26 ECS loco at Wembley
4) 1M11 southbound Lowland sleeper
5) 1C11 / 1B11 Edinburgh portion (and ECS from / to Polmadie)
6) 5M11 ECS loco at Polmadie (stock for 1M11 ex Glasgow Central)
7) 1M16 southbound Highland sleeper

It's possible that the 5M11 ECS loco isn't needed if they run round the stock and propel into Glasgow Central, but I've not been there to witness it. So either 6 or 7 class 92s needed per night. There's scope for substitution by 73/9s on the EC moves in Scotland.

Thats excellent info!

I presume that the locos off 1M11 and 1M16 arriving at Euston in the morning work 1S25 and 1S26 for the evening departure - or does the Euston ECS loco get rotated into diagram to work North?

Same for the 5M11 Loco ?

 

[CW2]

Thats excellent info!

I presume that the locos off 1M11 and 1M16 arriving at Euston in the morning work 1S25 and 1S26 for the evening departure - or does the Euston ECS loco get rotated into diagram to work North?

Same for the 5M11 Loco ?

There's probably a diagrammed rotation, as they are all in theory equally capable class 92s. However if any loco had a defect then it might well be limited to ECS work for a long period.
Sorry, I don't have any access to the booked diagrams.

 

[43 302]

There's probably a diagrammed rotation, as they are all in theory equally capable class 92s. However if any loco had a defect then it might well be limited to ECS work for a long period.
Sorry, I don't have any access to the booked diagrams.

When I last did the sleeper in December, 92014 worked the ECS into Euston for the Highlander and then the next day it took me from Edinburgh to Carstairs. I agree this is probably standard and they all share duties.

 

[TimboM]

Thats excellent info!

I presume that the locos off 1M11 and 1M16 arriving at Euston in the morning work 1S25 and 1S26 for the evening departure - or does the Euston ECS loco get rotated into diagram to work North?

Same for the 5M11 Loco ?

There are in theory three diagrams for the 92s. In practice it's driven by which 92s are available! By the time you've factored in those needing exams, those needing repairs, fleet planning and other operational considerations it's quite often Hobson's Choice. For what it's worth, the (theoretical) diagrams for the 92s in "normal times" are as follows:

1. Three 92s work 1S25 EUS-EDB // 1M16 EDB-EUS // 5S96 pm + 5M11 am Wembley/Euston ECS shunts over three consecutive nights, in rotation.
2. Two 92s work 1S26 / 1M11 on alternate nights.
3. Two 92s alternate between working the Polmadie/Glasgow ECS (5M11 pm/5S26 am) and the Carstairs portion (5C11 / 1C11 / 1B26 / 5B26).

2. is the one I'd say is most adhered to, followed by 3. then 1. Quite often 1. just becomes a pair of locos alternating on 1S25 / 1M16 and a third one that sticks on the ECS at London end for a period - this can happen (for example) where a 92 is restricted to ECS duties for whatever reason (e.g. awaiting tyre-turning).

Likewise this can happen on 3. - i.e. a loco gets restricted to the Polmadie ECS for whatever reason and it will stick on that and the other one of the "Polmadie Pair" will do a stretch on the Carstairs portion.

 

[CW2]

Thanks for that @TimboM. That's really informative.

 

[Alanko]

73966 ran light engine from Craigentinny to Stirling and back this evening. Presumably some sort of testing?

 

[TimboM]

73966 ran light engine from Craigentinny to Stirling and back this evening. Presumably some sort of testing?

Likely to be a route / traction refresher for some of the drivers who've not been driving the route / traction these last few weeks/months.

 

[ajrm]

Likely to be a route / traction refresher for some of the drivers who've not been driving the route / traction these last few weeks/months.

Indeed, there's been a number of similar runs to Aberdeen over recent weeks for that reason.

 

[CW2]

What might be interesting - if there is sufficient demand - would be a spreadsheet we could fill in each day as to which 92 / 73 is on which Cally diagram. It would need somebody to volunteer to run the spreadsheet, and everybody to chip in with the gen as and when.
MODS - what do you think?

 

[Oscar46016]

we can do a google doc link...

 

[Oscar46016]

Caledonian Sleeper Gen

Gen Date (start of Journey ),Train Headcode,Train,Leg,Loco,From,To,Trip,Order 0,92006,Crewe 0,92020,Wembley 0,92010,Wembley 16/06/2020,1M16,20:45 Inverness - Euston,92043,Edinburgh,Euston,South 16/06/2020,1S25,21:17 Euston - Inverness,92014,Euston,Edinburgh,North 17/06/2020,1M16,20:45 Inverness ...

docs.google.com

 

[InOban]

Passenger ends up in train depot after not being woken on Sleeper service

Passengers have been turfed off the Caledonian Sleeper hours early or found themselves in a depot after not being woken on arrival at their destination, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

www.scotsman.com

Not sure if this link will work. There have been complaints from 'guests' being turfed off an early-running train well in advance of the advertised time, including at Motherwell when the station was still locked, and one waking up in Polmadie.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Passenger ends up in train depot after not being woken on Sleeper service

Passengers have been turfed off the Caledonian Sleeper hours early or found themselves in a depot after not being woken on arrival at their destination, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

www.scotsman.com

Not sure if this link will work. There have been complaints from 'guests' being turfed off an early-running train well in advance of the advertised time, including at Motherwell when the station was still locked, and one waking up in Polmadie.

This is definitely something they need to sort. The published "kicking out times" seem, from what I read, to be utter fiction - if you aren't going to wait for them, don't publish them.

 

[theironroad]

The 'must vacate train by' times have almost always seemed to be fictitious in my experience even under ScotRail.

I think it is the desire of the hosts to get away home/hotel early and get the train cleared asap rather than the published times.

However the Motherwell and Edinburgh cases are ludicrous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 'must vacate train by' times have almost always seemed to be fictitious in my experience even under ScotRail.

I do wonder - why on earth publish them, then? I would be more angry about being kicked out earlier than specified than I would if the timetable simply said "arrival 0630 (or whatever it is), the train must be vacated immediately on arrival".

I can't abide dishonesty in business. It's a bit of a (minor) bait and switch.

 

[theironroad]

I do wonder - why on earth publish them, then? I would be more angry about being kicked out earlier than specified than I would if the timetable simply said "arrival 0630 (or whatever it is), the train must be vacated immediately on arrival".

I can't abide dishonesty in business. It's a bit of a (minor) bait and switch.

Iirc most of the highlander services do have vacate on arrival, but as the lowlanders arrive relatively early (and often earlier than booked), I've certainly fallen foul of it before.

 

[xotGD]

So will we now see a load of cranks trying to 'oversleep' to do the ECS to Polmadie?

 

[185143]

When I did the Lowlander to London, I woke up in the seats some time after the train had arrived (40E) and there was no rush to move me on. There was another passenger sat at one of the end seats with a desk who was working and seemed to be in no rush to get off.

 

[43 302]

So will we now see a load of cranks trying to 'oversleep' to do the ECS to Polmadie?

Don't give me ideas

 

[FQTV]

Last time I did the up Highlander, there was a fairly aggressive attempt to get me to vacate early at Euston. This was particularly irritating given that they’d forgotten my breakfast order and it arrived only as the anchor was dropped.

I noted it in an email to Caledonian Sleeper, raising a few other concerns that I’d had, and to their credit they engaged swiftly and proactively offered a partial refund.

I’ve had contact with CS Customer Relations more recently about future plans, and they’ve also been notably responsive, and impressive as a result.

Although I’m a champagne-Trot at heart, and I appreciate that staff have had justified grievances of late, it feels to me that, even beyond what I’ve personally observed, there might be something ‘adrift’ at the coalface. The corporate response to these latest incidents reinforces that, for me.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Passenger ends up in train depot after not being woken on Sleeper service

Passengers have been turfed off the Caledonian Sleeper hours early or found themselves in a depot after not being woken on arrival at their destination, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

www.scotsman.com

Not sure if this link will work. There have been complaints from 'guests' being turfed off an early-running train well in advance of the advertised time, including at Motherwell when the station was still locked, and one waking up in Polmadie.

Reminds of the time I ended up in Selhurst Depot. I was totally awake and knew something was amiss as we left Norwood Junction and turned right under Tenisson Road bridge. I expected the train to go on to East Croydon. I just got up and walked forwards hoping to get out with the driver. Ended up opposite Selhurst station as expected. But a 157 bus loomed into view so no need to hang around on a platform. I should record these rare mileages.

 

[CW2]

Perhaps "Unexpected awakening locations" deserves its own thread.
I offer:
Woking Carriage Sidings (off the 03:45 Waterloo - Petersfield papers)
Alderley Edge Carriage Sidings (on an EMU from Crewe early one Sunday morning)
Ferme Park Carriage Sidings (off an overnight into Kings Cross)
Red Bank Carriage Sidings (on a daytime train into Manchester - I was just utterly knackered!)
Kings Lynn (when I wanted to get off at Ely, but overdossed)

 

[Gonzoiku]

The 'must vacate train by' times have almost always seemed to be fictitious in my experience even under ScotRail.

That has been my usual experience on arrival at Eustion going back at least 10 years.

GZ

 

[47271]

Things must be starting to get back to normal if The Scotsman is printing stories about poor customer service on the sleeper.

Joking apart, it's interesting that I've never heard of a regular being hassled off the train early. I think that there may be a certain type of host who thinks that they might get away with it with less experienced travellers. Woe betide one that made the attempt on a Highlander regular.

 

[Bald Rick]

Things must be starting to get back to normal if The Scotsman is printing stories about poor customer service on the sleeper.

Joking apart, it's interesting that I've never heard of a regular being hassled off the train early. I think that there may be a certain type of host who thinks that they might get away with it with less experienced travellers. Woe betide one that made the attempt on a Highlander regular.

Surely it’s not a ‘thing’ on the highlander, given the arrival times at destination.