£50k bid submitted to re-open train services between Barton and Gainsborough

[Jorge Da Silva]

£50k bid submitted to re-open train services between Barton and Gainsborough - Lincolnshire Today

North Lincolnshire Council has submitted a bid for £50,000 to re-open and increase passenger train services along the Barton, Brigg and Gainsborough route.

lincolnshiretoday.net

North Lincolnshire Council has submitted a bid for £50,000 of Government cash to re-open and increase passenger train services along the Barton, Brigg and Gainsborough route.

The application to the Ideas Fund from the Department for Transport (DfT) Restoring Your Railway Programme is to fund a feasibility study into the benefits of improving the train services.

Currently the Brigg, Kirton and Gainsborough line only runs passenger services on Saturdays. The Barton line is hampered by a section which is freight only meaning passenger trains must take an indirect route.

No passenger trains currently run on a short spur of line between Ulceby Station and Brocklesby.

The bid has been submitted with support from North Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire Community Rail Partnership and with backing from the area’s MPs; Andrew Percy for Brigg and Goole, Holly Mumby-Croft for Scunthorpe and Martin Vickers for Cleethorpes.

Cllr Rob Waltham, Leader of North Lincolnshire Council, said: “There is a real need for the train services between Barton, Brigg and Gainsborough to be improved as there is a gap in connectivity for these locations.

“Many of the villages nearby don’t have access to other forms of transport and an increase in rail services would provide that much-needed connection.

“We have been working with the area’s MPs and North Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire Community Rail Partnership to create a strong bid to the government highlighting the many economic benefits it would have for the area. The support from our MPs, Andrew, Holly and Martin, in backing this bid has been fantastic and we are grateful for it.

“This project will open up employment opportunities and support our visitor economy whilst also supporting ambitions for clean growth.”

Barry Coward, chair of the North Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire Community Rail Partnership, said: “I am delighted that North Lincolnshire Council has developed our idea for providing a regular train service at Kirton in Lindsey and Brigg into an application to the government for funding a feasibility study.

“As the local Community Rail Partnership we will be pleased to work in partnership with the council on this project.”

The feasibility study would investigate the transport benefits of an increased passenger service of:

• Increased rail services connecting towns and villages
• Increased opportunities for leisure travel opening up tourist locations (e.g. Thornton Abbey) and supporting our growth ambitions for the visitor economy
• Increasing employment opportunities for local residents through increased travel to work options
• Increasing housing growth through increased transport options to housing growth areas
• Supporting the ambitions of TfN, Midlands Connect, Humber LEP and Greater Lincolnshire LEP around increased connectivity
• Supporting North Lincolnshire Council’s ambitions as set out in Council Plan, Economic Growth Plan, Local Plan to support economic growth, increased connectivity, safety and wellbeing
• Supporting local, regional and national ambitions for clean growth. Increasing use of public transport and reduced reliance on private car
• Meeting community needs and aspirations as clearly articulated by the Community Rail Partnership

The fund will provide 75 per cent of costs up to £50,000 of successful proposals to help fund transport and economic studies and create a business case. The council would invest the remaining 25 per cent.

Any thoughts?

Am i reading it correctly as it sounds like they are planning a Barton to Gainsborough Service (presumably going to Sheffield).

No stations or track is required to be built as the infrastructure is there all we need is trains.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Not entirely sure how it’s supposed to read, as a Journo has probably cut and paste bits out of context.

Mention of the section from Ulceby however is interesting, not that I suspect there’s any demand for Ulceby and Barton traffic towards Gainsborough or vice versa.

I’m guessing this is an application for £50,000, as 75% of the cost of therefore about £67,000, for feasibility studies to get the necessary bits sorted to identify infrastructure needed to get enough capacity for freight and passenger all day, every day.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Not entirely sure how it’s supposed to read, as a Journo has probably cut and paste bits out of context.

Mention of the section from Ulceby however is interesting, not that I suspect there’s any demand for Ulceby and Barton traffic towards Gainsborough or vice versa.

I’m guessing this is an application for £50,000, as 75% of the cost of therefore about £67,000, for feasibility studies to get the necessary bits sorted to identify infrastructure needed to get enough capacity for freight and passenger all day, every day.

I would have gone for 1tph between Sheffield and Cleethorpes via Gainsborough and an hourly service to Barton (if they want to increase services on that line). But either way there is no infrastructure required to be built just need trains.

Anyway to find the bid?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Connecting communities: £50,000 bid submitted to re-open train services between Barton and Gainsborough - North Lincolnshire Council

North Lincolnshire Council has submitted a bid for £50,000 of Government cash to re-open and increase passenger train services along…

www.northlincs.gov.uk

Same link from North lincolnshire council website

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I would have gone for 1tph between Sheffield and Cleethorpes via Gainsborough and an hourly service to Barton (if they want to increase services on that line). But either way there is no infrastructure required to be built just need trains.

Anyway to find the bid?

Infrastructure must need to be built if no Monday to Friday exists. From memory the entire line has to be left ‘clear’ during the week as so much fifth-freedom exists for freight.

Infrastructure needed to be upgraded during the Hatfield collapse to allow TPE to divert a limited service that way.

So yes, infrastructure is needed. No way would the route support more than 1tp2h, which is perfectly adequate as there is also hardly fantastic capacity and infrastructure east of Grimsby Town. Indeed, how do you balance the need for the ‘villages’ to have a direct Cleethorpes service when the main driver of traffic, Cleethorpes and Grimsby to Sheffield and beyond, is better served by the much higher-quality TransPennine service?

Realistically you’re looking at your standard hourly Cleethorpes to Manchester; overlaid with a two-hourly service from Lincoln (Newark/Nottingham) to Cleethorpes, the unit then heading off to Barton as a new service (as it will be East Mids Trains), and vice versa (continuing the two-hourly theme), and a two-hourly Sheffield to Grimsby.

If you’re able to get more services to Barton, namely an hourly service connecting with an hourly bus over the bridge, then fantastic. I’m all for Cleethorpes and Grimsby getting faster, better trains to Barton for that. But I doubt that stacks up as frequency is still poor and the car wins.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Infrastructure must need to be built if no Monday to Friday exists. From memory the entire line has to be left ‘clear’ during the week as so much fifth-freedom exists for freight.

Infrastructure needed to be upgraded during the Hatfield collapse to allow TPE to divert a limited service that way.

So yes, infrastructure is needed. No way would the route support more than 1tp2h, which is perfectly adequate as there is also hardly fantastic capacity and infrastructure east of Grimsby Town. Indeed, how do you balance the need for the ‘villages’ to have a direct Cleethorpes service when the main driver of traffic, Cleethorpes and Grimsby to Sheffield and beyond, is better served by the much higher-quality TransPennine service?

Realistically you’re looking at your standard hourly Cleethorpes to Manchester; overlaid with a two-hourly service from Lincoln (Newark/Nottingham) to Cleethorpes, the unit then heading off to Barton as a new service (as it will be East Mids Trains), and vice versa (continuing the two-hourly theme), and a two-hourly Sheffield to Grimsby.

If you’re able to get more services to Barton, namely an hourly service connecting with an hourly bus over the bridge, then fantastic. I’m all for Cleethorpes and Grimsby getting faster, better trains to Barton for that. But I doubt that stacks up as frequency is still poor and the car wins.

Remember the Lincoln service goes hourly from December 2021

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Remember the Lincoln service goes hourly from December 2021

Even less capacity into Cleethorpes for this Gainsborough service then; unless it all terminates and starts back from Grimsby.

 

[Grimsby town]

Its a crazy idea. Give me the £100 and I'll do the feasibility study for them it shouldn't take long to say that there is no demand for such a service. I honestly can't think of any demand this will fufill. Brigg / Gainsborough to Grimsby will need a change. Brigg to Hull you are probably looking at a journey time of around 1 hour 30. If demand exists a bus would be more sensible. The Barton line to Doncaster / Sheffield ownwards is served just as well via a change at Habrough with the added TPE calls. If you were going to have a service from Barton it would probably get more demand if sent towards Lincoln as Lincoln to Hull is poorly served by both public transport and by road but even that wouldn't be feasible.

I believe a more sensible proposal has also been suggested. This would use a class 230 which would be based at Cleethorpes and TPE crew. The service would operate from Cleethorpes to Worksop with the first servive being around 5:30 from Cleethorpes to provide an early service to connect for London, Sheffield and Nottingham. The return service would then provide a travel to work service to Grimsby. It would only be around 4 services a day in each direction but would be a good start for minimal investment in a unit that won't be used elsewhere.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Its a crazy idea. Give me the £100 and I'll do the feasibility study for them it shouldn't take long to say that there is no demand for such a service. I honestly can't think of any demand this will fufill. Brigg / Gainsborough to Grimsby will need a change. Brigg to Hull you are probably looking at a journey time of around 1 hour 30. If demand exists a bus would be more sensible. The Barton line to Doncaster / Sheffield ownwards is served just as well via a change at Habrough with the added TPE calls. If you were going to have a service from Barton it would probably get more demand if sent towards Lincoln as Lincoln to Hull is poorly served by both public transport and by road but even that wouldn't be feasible.

I believe a more sensible proposal has also been suggested. This would use a class 230 which would be based at Cleethorpes and TPE crew. The service would operate from Cleethorpes to Worksop with the first servive being around 5:30 from Cleethorpes to provide an early service to connect for London, Sheffield and Nottingham. The return service would then provide a travel to work service to Grimsby. It would only be around 4 services a day in each direction but would be a good start for minimal investment in a unit that won't be used elsewhere.

Actually sounds like a reasonable idea - and low costs. If it works, build on it. If not, no major loss. Re-deploy the unit.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Even less capacity into Cleethorpes for this Gainsborough service then; unless it all terminates and starts back from Grimsby.

Lincoln services turn back at Grimsby.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Infrastructure must need to be built if no Monday to Friday exists. From memory the entire line has to be left ‘clear’ during the week as so much fifth-freedom exists for freight.

Could you explain what you mean by this, please?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

The current frequency of routes around the area is:

1tp2h: Barton to Cleethorpes
1tph: Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes
1tp2h: Newark Northgate to Grimsby Town via Lincoln (until December 2020)
1tp2h: Leicester to Grimsby Town via Lincoln (from December 2020; Hourly from December 2021)
3tpd (Saturday’s Only): Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Gainsborough

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

How much demand is there from Barton to Gainsborough?

Would it not be better to run the service from Gainsborough to Grimsby Town every hour and increase the Barton service to Hourly?

 

[Grimsby town]

How much demand is there from Barton to Gainsborough?

Would it not be better to run the service from Gainsborough to Grimsby Town every hour and increase the Barton service to Hourly?

I doubt there is hardly any demand for travel from Gainsborough to Barton. They're both smalls towns and aren't exactly close to each other. Prehaps there would be small amount of tourist vistor demand to Barton as the humber area is quite attractive. Gainsborough to Hull would get higher demand but still not much consider Gainsborough has a quicker journey time to Lincoln, Doncaster and Sheffield so these are likely to be more attractive. Hull could also be accessed via Doncaster in a similar time if not quicker than via Barton.

The only demand Gainsborough to Barton would likely satisfy well is Brigg to Barnetby and onwards and Goxhill / New Holland to Barton /Hull. If you were to run a 2 hourly Cleethorpes / Grimsby to Worksop service you'd serve all the Brigg flows but also allow Brigg and Gainsborough to Grimsby. I think making the Barton branch hourly to Cleethorpes would be sensible but the line is struggling due to poor reliability so a reliable 2 hourly service that isn't sacraficed by TPE when there is a shortage of train crew would be a start.

Also I believe there is a bus from Brigg to Barton although it is irregular. The journey time of the bus is likely to be similar to the train with the bus probably being cheaper. The train wouldn't serve any large markets between Barnetby and Barton with onlu Goxhill and Barrow (albeit barrow being miles away from any stations) having any real population. I believe a bus could serve the any local demand better and more cheaply.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I doubt there is hardly any demand for travel from Gainsborough to Barton. They're both smalls towns and aren't exactly close to each other. Prehaps there would be small amount of tourist vistor demand to Barton as the humber area is quite attractive. Gainsborough to Hull would get higher demand but still not much consider Gainsborough has a quicker journey time to Lincoln, Doncaster and Sheffield so these are likely to be more attractive. Hull could also be accessed via Doncaster in a similar time if not quicker than via Barton.

The only demand Gainsborough to Barton would likely satisfy well is Brigg to Barnetby and onwards and Goxhill / New Holland to Barton /Hull. If you were to run a 2 hourly Cleethorpes / Grimsby to Worksop service you'd serve all the Brigg flows but also allow Brigg and Gainsborough to Grimsby. I think making the Barton branch hourly to Cleethorpes would be sensible but the line is struggling due to poor reliability so a reliable 2 hourly service that isn't sacraficed by TPE when there is a shortage of train crew would be a start.

Also I believe there is a bus from Brigg to Barton although it is irregular. The journey time of the bus is likely to be similar to the train with the bus probably being cheaper. The train wouldn't serve any large markets between Barnetby and Barton with onlu Goxhill and Barrow (albeit barrow being miles away from any stations) having any real population. I believe a bus could serve the any local demand better and more cheaply.

I would go with extending the Sheffield to Gainsborough service to Grimsby and making the Barton line hourly would achieve the same outcome.

 

[Bevan Price]

I think that the railway through Brigg has two big problems - there is no direct service to the biggest attraction in the area - Lincoln; nor does it pass through Scunthorpe. To get to either of these, any passengers face inconvenient, time-consuming connections.

 

[37424]

I used the Brigg service a few times when it still had a regular Monday to Friday service 3 times a day, it was a case of spot the passenger. I think I will get the incinerator out and start burning thousands of pounds on a daily basis it will have the same level of usefulness.

 

[tbtc]

Cllr Rob Waltham, Leader of North Lincolnshire Council, said: “There is a real need for the train services between Barton, Brigg and Gainsborough to be improved as there is a gap in connectivity for these locations.

“Many of the villages nearby don’t have access to other forms of transport and an increase in rail services would provide that much-needed connection

Feels like the old problem of "there are insufficient people travelling between these small places to justify a commercial bus service, so instead we've spent more money on a bid/ submission/ survey than it would cost to actually buy a second hand minibus"

I suppose that some people don't like the concept of services that appear to terminate short of where they ultimately could (Buffer Stop Aversion should be a recognised condition in the enthusiast community, the kind of people who can't accept that some services appear to stop short of a final destination on a line), so you might argue that if there's an hourly service from Sheffield that "only" terminates at Gainsborough then why not extend it beyond there ... and why not run it up the Barton branch, since that only has a bi-hourly passenger service?

So, if I'm reading it right, you might have a situation where there's an hourly service from Barton to Thornton Abbey, half of which are the existing Cleethorpes stopper and half of which run through Brigg to join the existing Gainsbrough service to Sheffield?

Given that the TPE service (via Doncaster) is already faster than any Sheffield - Grimsby service, and there's fairly low population density beyond Gainsbrough, I can't see it working... but it looks a lot more fun/ wacky/ attractive to suggest something brand new like this than do something dull like consider the feasibility of extending the current Doncaster - Scunthorpe stopper through towards Grimsby etc.