My under-16 proving he's under 16

[Chapeltom]

The reason I posted was because of Yorkie's point about 16-17 year olds paying half fare. I've not paid half as a 17 year old and I didn't think it was fair that I was 16, earning £30 a week and having to fork out double for the train.


First point, yes I travelled round on child tickets for about 8 months. From my 16th to about Feb 09 I didn't travel by train as I hadn't the need to. I don't know anyone who paid full fare. I always paid half as for one reason I was always given a child fare.

Second point, if anyone can get away with something they'll do it. Its human nature. Fraud, yes but 99% of kids at 16 wouldn't think twice about it.

Third point, I never replied I was 16. I always gave my birthday as one year less.


I always got/asked for a child fare because I wasn't asked for I.D on the train and on all but 4 times got asked my D.O.B at Piccadilly. I knew I could do it until I got bored of being asked and decided I needed a railcard. I bought my railcard in Oct 10 and haven't paid a child fare since. I know a few people who still pay child fares.


Tom

 

[northwichcat]

Now he said he was 15 and had been told that if he took his passport to a booking office he could get a refund. I thought this was a little strange, i never asked who excessed him but i was a little taken back by it

That's assuming he had a passport.

 

[Greenback]

The reason I posted was because of Yorkie's point about 16-17 year olds paying half fare. I've not paid half as a 17 year old and I didn't think it was fair that I was 16, earning £30 a week and having to fork out double for the train.


First point, yes I travelled round on child tickets for about 8 months. From my 16th to about Feb 09 I didn't travel by train as I hadn't the need to. I don't know anyone who paid full fare. I always paid half as for one reason I was always given a child fare.

Second point, if anyone can get away with something they'll do it. Its human nature. Fraud, yes but 99% of kids at 16 wouldn't think twice about it.

Third point, I never replied I was 16. I always gave my birthday as one year less.


I always got/asked for a child fare because I wasn't asked for I.D on the train and on all but 4 times got asked my D.O.B at Piccadilly. I knew I could do it until I got bored of being asked and decided I needed a railcard. I bought my railcard in Oct 10 and haven't paid a child fare since. I know a few people who still pay child fares.


Tom

I don;t think it;s fair that 16 year olds are supposed to pay the full price either, as I said earlier. Butt hat doesn't make it right to lie about your age, even if you think everyone else is doing it. You have actively and deliberately evaded paying the correct fare, and, as you are presumably a rail enthusiast, I find it quite sad, although you have come clean about it.

I'm just glad that the staff questioning eventually persuaded you to get the railcard you should have got when you turned 16.

 

[Chapeltom]

I've been many a time let down by trains in the last 12 months, on my way to an evening football match in Liverpool only for trains to be delayed and I never made kick off and turned back £12 out of pocket. I've lost a hell of a lot more money buying train tickets only for delays to ruin it than I ever did by not paying an adult fare instead of a childs fare.

I could comment about some of the obscene ticketing, being more expensive to go to Chesterfield than Wakefield or Gainsborough from Chinley, that is a sick joke.

 

[Greenback]

Are you now saying that it's OK to evade the corect fare because the service is poor? I'm sure that's what persistent offenders say to justify their criminal acts too.

I'm also sure that oen fo the excuses they have is that the ticket prices are too high etc etc.

Why should honest people pay their way and watch others cheat the system by lying? If everyone did that what sort of country and society would be living in?

The law is the law, if you don't like it work to change it not ignore it.

No apology, no sense of remorse, just a feeble defence trying to justify not paying what you should have.

 

[yorkie]

If there are delays you are usually entitled to compensation. (if you can be bothered to claim - for a £2 journey you'd have to have a lot of time on your hands!)

I could comment about some of the obscene ticketing, being more expensive to go to Chesterfield than Wakefield or Gainsborough from Chinley, that is a sick joke.

Chinley-Chesterfield £12.90 SDR (set by EMT)
Chinley-Wakefield £10.10 SDR (set by NT)
Chinley-Gainsborough £12.20 SDR (set by EMT)

So it's true that it is cheaper to Wakefield, but not Gainsborough. This is because EMTs prices are at rip-off levels, while Northern are generally reasonable.

Marsden-Chesterfield (£10.10 SDR) is arguably valid via Chinley though, given that the 'shortest route' is valid and routes within 3 miles count too. via Chinley is less than 1 mile longer than via Sheffield, although that's via Denton and the Dore West curve, so could be a debatable point.

 

[richw]

not defending or condoning chapeltom, however i feel childs fares should be extended to anyone in full time education under 18, as most people under 18 full time education people get paid a whooping £30 a week allowance, which if you have to fork out for train tickets leaves you very little to spend if your parents are on low income etc. these rules apply in several european countrys where anyone in full time education gets child rates!

 

[northwichcat]

not defending or condoning chapeltom, however i feel childs fares should be extended to anyone in full time education under 18, as most people under 18 full time education people get paid a whooping £30 a week allowance, which if you have to fork out for train tickets leaves you very little to spend if your parents are on low income etc. these rules apply in several european countrys where anyone in full time education gets child rates!

That's £30 more than you use to get for being in full-time education age 16-18. You would also get subsided travel costs if you live more than 3 miles from the nearest sixth form/college.

 

[Greenback]

not defending or condoning chapeltom, however i feel childs fares should be extended to anyone in full time education under 18, as most people under 18 full time education people get paid a whooping £30 a week allowance, which if you have to fork out for train tickets leaves you very little to spend if your parents are on low income etc. these rules apply in several european countrys where anyone in full time education gets child rates!

I agree! See my earlier post!

That's £30 more than you use to get for being in full-time education age 16-18. You would also get subsided travel costs if you live more than 3 miles from the nearest sixth form/college.

Chapeltom wasn't going to college on at least some of his journeys, as he has admitted. If he was going to watch football he had enough money to travel, albeit at child rate, and to pay to get in, unless it wa sjust a kickabout in the park! Hmmm, I'd be interested in knowing if he managed to get child rate admission for the football as well!

 

[142094]

not defending or condoning chapeltom, however i feel childs fares should be extended to anyone in full time education under 18, as most people under 18 full time education people get paid a whooping £30 a week allowance, which if you have to fork out for train tickets leaves you very little to spend if your parents are on low income etc. these rules apply in several european countrys where anyone in full time education gets child rates!

In areas with PTEs, you can usually get a discount on tickets until you leave school.

£30 a week is better than nothing, either that or you could do what I and I bet many others on here did - got a job when I was 16.

 

[richw]

In areas with PTEs, you can usually get a discount on tickets until you leave school.

£30 a week is better than nothing, either that or you could do what I and I bet many others on here did - got a job when I was 16.

i had a well paid part time job whilst at college, but i know many who didnt, i was earning £700 a month part time when i was at college,

 

[142094]

You can do a paper round from 13, might not be the best paid but at least you get some money and can fit it around school. Plenty of other jobs to do after 16, working in a supermarket/shop or waitering at weekends seems to be the norm.

 

[reb0118]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something like 90% of 16 year olds are on child tickets! I bet sales of YNG railcards are very low for 16 year olds. I've even known people aged 16/17 ask for a ticket and been issued a child ticket without them asking for it.

My proposed solution would be to offer free railcards to anyone who requests one aged 16/17 valid until the day before they turn 18. The chances of ATOC doing this are about zero, even though it could actually increase revenue.

The Scottish Government do this. They issue the "Scottish Youth Railcard". It's broadly similar to the YP railcard. However it offers a 50% discount on season tickets also.

In Edinburgh the local bus company - Lothian Buses - issues a "Teen Card" and publicly states that you're not sure of getting your child fare without one.

Personally I don't issue a child ticket if you've got tattoos, or I've seen you drinking alcohol or smoking, facial hair is also a good indicator. I've been asked for a "half" by a mother who was out with her kids- for her not the kid who was under five - then again it was Fife so she might have been telling the truth.

In all honesty a national rail scheme for teenagers (say 12 -15) should be implemented with a free to issue id card issued, and then after a suitable introduction period, no card = no child fare.

 

[boing_uk]

Off-topic slightly but Blackpool has one of the few municipal bus companies left (which also runs the trams although only local passes are valid) and it has been a major struggle for them to cope. They don't have a lot of funding available as they don't have a big backer like First, Stagecoach, Go-ahead e.tc so fare rises, service cuts and lack of new buses has been the result.

Sorry to stray off topic, but that is quite correct. BTS actually paid a dividend back to its shareholder prior to the free pensioner travel fiasco.

And why should pensioners get free travel anyway? At least charge a nominal fare or something? The bloody buses in Blackpool at this time of year are absolutely rammed with doddering old fools riding around on the buses because its free. It is certainly not fair for local authorities and companies like BTS to pick up the tab.

 

[Scotrail84]

The Scottish Government do this. They issue the "Scottish Youth Railcard". It's broadly similar to the YP railcard. However it offers a 50% discount on season tickets also.

In Edinburgh the local bus company - Lothian Buses - issues a "Teen Card" and publicly states that you're not sure of getting your child fare without one.

Personally I don't issue a child ticket if you've got tattoos, or I've seen you drinking alcohol or smoking, facial hair is also a good indicator. I've been asked for a "half" by a mother who was out with her kids- for her not the kid who was under five - then again it was Fife so she might have been telling the truth.
In all honesty a national rail scheme for teenagers (say 12 -15) should be implemented with a free to issue id card issued, and then after a suitable introduction period, no card = no child fare.

Did they not have Fife concession pass then haha?

 

[RJ]

not defending or condoning chapeltom, however i feel childs fares should be extended to anyone in full time education under 18, as most people under 18 full time education people get paid a whooping £30 a week allowance, which if you have to fork out for train tickets leaves you very little to spend if your parents are on low income etc. these rules apply in several european countrys where anyone in full time education gets child rates!

How much do children need to spend on train tickets? Shouldn't the parents/carers provide money for necessary journeys i.e to and from school? The £30 a week is to spend on equipment for school.

i had a well paid part time job whilst at college, but i know many who didnt, i was earning £700 a month part time when i was at college,

It's not even that hard to find a well paid job at 16. Many students are too lazy to get a job or don't think outside the box when looking for a job, everyone goes to the high street to hand out CVs to places that barely pay the minimum wage. I've been working part time at the same place since I was 16 and haven't asked my parents for a penny since, whilst being in full time education.

 

[scotsman]

In Scotland, youngsters from the age of 16-18 are entitled to a Scottish youth railcard, it has many of the same restrictions/validity of a YNG, and it can also be used as a season ticket photocard with the holder entitled to 50 per cent off a season ticket. This is issued free of charge, by voucher redemption at a manned railway station.

Not only that, but all u-26s are meant to be issued with a "National Entitlement Card" by their local authority, which has the PASS logo, date of birth and photo on it.

 

[CarterUSM]

Not only that, but all u-26s are meant to be issued with a "National Entitlement Card" by their local authority, which has the PASS logo, date of birth and photo on it.

Yes, I've seen them, the scottish youth railcard voucher is issued with it at 16 years of age and lasts them two years, after that the entitlement card holds no validity on the rail network with the exception of concessions who wouldn't have a youth railcard anyway.

 

[scotsman]

Yes, I've seen them, the scottish youth railcard voucher is issued with it at 16 years of age and lasts them two years, after that the entitlement card holds no validity on the rail network with the exception of concessions who wouldn't have a youth railcard anyway.

The Youth Railcard is valid for one year only (but you are entitled for 2 years (or 9 if you are a full time volunteer). However, local authorities give no information on how to reorder or how long you are entitled for. Plus the concessionary rail travel has been scrapped by most SNP local authorities.

 

[karen]

It is not 'rare' to be asked your age when buying a rail ticket at all!!

My 15 year old daughter and her friend started using the train a few months back to visit friends at the coast. They are asked every time they travel. They both carry their 11-15 oyster card ID which thay use for travel to school but this doesnt appear to help either!

I think when one gets to a certain age its hard to tell young peoples ages and I appreciate that this has to be checked, but young people can find this frustrating.

Would be helpful if there is a free Photocard scheme still available- I will check tomorrow- as Citizen cards cost £15.

 

[yorkie]

National Rail Photocards are free.

Yes it's hard to tell. For example, if he wasn't famous, a guard would probably give Justin Bieber a child ticket.

I've known people aged 16/17 ask for a ticket, not specifying child, but being given a child ticket without them asking for it, and without being asked.

I've also known people be offered child tickets who are aged 20+.

On the other hand I've known people aged 14 be forced to pay full fare because they didn't have a Photocard, even though they didn't look 16.

It varies a lot by operator/region.

 

[CarterUSM]

The Youth Railcard is valid for one year only (but you are entitled for 2 years (or 9 if you are a full time volunteer). However, local authorities give no information on how to reorder or how long you are entitled for. Plus the concessionary rail travel has been scrapped by most SNP local authorities.

I only know of 2 local authorities who have withdrawn from the scheme, namely Fife, who now only allow concessions within Fife, and Edinburgh, who have withdrawn altogether.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

National Rail Photocards are free.

Yes it's hard to tell. For example, if he wasn't famous, a guard would probably give Justin Bieber a child ticket.

I've known people aged 16/17 ask for a ticket, not specifying child, but being given a child ticket without them asking for it, and without being asked.

I've also known people be offered child tickets who are aged 20+.

On the other hand I've known people aged 14 be forced to pay full fare because they didn't have a Photocard, even though they didn't look 16.

It varies a lot by operator/region.

I have offered child tickets to adults before myself, when they look exceedingly young. Quite embarrassing for the both of us! Not intentionally offered i might add!

 

[bb21]

So that was you then Carter . I was given a Child single about two years ago at Paisley Gilmour St even though I showed my railcard. It took me a while to realise it as I thought the fare was too low to be true. I think we had a good laugh when I went back to the ticket window to clarify the situation.

 

[CarterUSM]

So that was you then Carter . I was given a Child single about two years ago at Paisley Gilmour St even though I showed my railcard. It took me a while to realise it as I thought the fare was too low to be true. I think we had a good laugh when I went back to the ticket window to clarify the situation.

Absolutely not!!! I've been off the leccys for years! Seriously though, i usually ask if it's a child ticket , with the result either a hasty, yes!, or a glum no. It must be a slight blow to ones self perception trying to be as mature as you can, then being offered a child ticket. On the other hand, the financial gain is a plus.

 

[bb21]

I did think about the sub-£1 saving I gained and not mentioning it but then would probably have got caught at Glasgow Central. As it turned out, I was right...

 

[reb0118]

Did they not have Fife concession pass then haha?

I think it was one of the "tinkers" from Cowdengelly?

 

[scotsman]

I think it was one of the "tinkers" from Cowdengelly?

I thought they stuck to the Route 19?