South Eastern class 395s

[shinkansen1966]

Due to lower than expected passenger use, how many sets of the South Eastern 395 are now sitting idol ?

With third rail/overhead combo, where can they be put to good use?
London - York additional eureka services launching in May 2011 (sure East Coast could re-livery them, shove in some first class seats and an seat trolley service)
With NW electrification imminent in a few years' time, how about the Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh service?
Or just about any third rail duty in southern England where there's currently overcrowding ?

Of course, these trains would periodically need to be stabled in Ashford for maintainance.

 

[gordonthemoron]

newcastle-chathill local service

 

[Bastiaan]

Class 395s are some sort of outer-suburban high speed units, meant for short journeys. So I think FCC London KX - Peterborough would be an excellent service for this class. Would be nice to see a 395 in FCC "Skyline" livery

 

[shinkansen1966]

Do we think these 395s will be pressed into service again soon, or continue to gather dust in Ashford sidings ?

 

[Lampshade]

Stick them on the Hounslow Loop

 

[ert47]

Or just about any third rail duty in southern England where there's currently overcrowding ?

Can always shove them on the London Overground orbital route when that opens

 

[swt_passenger]

I think when this first came up, it was reckoned to be about two units not in service, because it was a case of various north Kent coast diagrams running as 6 car vice 12.

IIRC this was then exagerrated in the normal media into something like 12 trains sitting idle all day, but as always the truth is quite different...

 

[yorksrob]

Out of interest, does anyone know if these units are cleared to go to Charing X and Vic so that spares could be used to bolster classic line services?

 

[87015]

23 diagrams from 29 units from published May diagrams although a few of those diagrams do very little passenger mileage.

Don't know if any of those have been further pruned, but even if not 23 from 29 is pretty poor use of a brand new fleet.

 

[Lampshade]

Forget the ECML and WCML, the wires aren't sprung tightly enough for 125mph on the ECML and the 395s don't tilt, so it'd be 110mph on both lines.

Out of interest, does anyone know if these units are cleared to go to Charing X and Vic so that spares could be used to bolster classic line services?

They have been to Victoria, not sure if they were in general service though.

 

[Aictos]

Forget the ECML and WCML, the wires aren't sprung tightly enough for 125mph on the ECML and the 395s don't tilt, so it'd be 110mph on both lines.

Umm, I don't know if you've actually noticed but both Class 91s and their Mk4s plus the HSTs not forgetting the 180s are all fully capable of 125mph operation and indeed do operate at that speed on the ECML.

Indeed the only reason why the GNER leased Class 373s ran at 110mph instead of the full 125mph is down to restrictions put in place to allow their operation.

The 365s don't tilt yet they handle the curves of the ECML quite well so I can't see what the issue is with the 395s providing of course they can be cleared for the route.

 

[Bastiaan]

The 365s don't even reach 110 mph, let alone 125 mph
And as stated by 91107, the curves aren't an issue on the ECML, but apparently the overhead wires aren't hung tight enough to handle a pantograph moving with 125 mph. This would mean 91s have special pantographs, which other classes don't have (?)

 

[Mintona]

One of the 395s (005) is broken so there are only 5 units spare each day. One sits at St. Pancras, one at Ramsgate and one at Ashford as hot spares whilst the other two are given exams etc. That's not a bad use of the fleet. Then through the day some more (I don't know how many) head to Ashford for cleaning before being used again for the evening peak.

One has been to Victoria in passenger service, it is a diversionary route for when it all goes wrong on HS1. They are not cleared to Charing Cross though, as far as I am aware.

Had to laugh at the news report showing them all tucked up in Ashford service on a Sunday afternoon

 

[Failed Unit]

The 365s don't even reach 110 mph, let alone 125 mph
And as stated by 91107, the curves aren't an issue on the ECML, but apparently the overhead wires aren't hung tight enough to handle a pantograph moving with 125 mph. This would mean 91s have special pantographs, which other classes don't have (?)

Nothing special about the 91s pantograph. The 90s do 110 on the ecml. The 373s got cleared for 125 south of Grantham before they left. So the 395 could do 125 on ecml if cleared. They could probably also be fitted with the same pantograph as the 91s which have done 140mph in tests and on special workings. Remember a 91 held the uk speed record until hs1. The 395s would be good on kings cross to kings Lynn services. Probaby better loaded then now. I have used hs1 in the peak. 1740 on Friday. I was amazed how few people were on the train. Much less than the classic route.

 

[Dreadnought]

Remember a 91 held the uk speed record until hs1.

Actually the APT held the speed record until HS1 at 162.2mph. The 91 holds the UK locomotive speed record of 162mph.

 

[Failed Unit]

Actually the APT held the speed record until HS1 at 162.2mph. The 91 holds the UK locomotive speed record of 162mph.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[yorksrob]

One of the 395s (005) is broken so there are only 5 units spare each day. One sits at St. Pancras, one at Ramsgate and one at Ashford as hot spares whilst the other two are given exams etc. That's not a bad use of the fleet. Then through the day some more (I don't know how many) head to Ashford for cleaning before being used again for the evening peak.

One has been to Victoria in passenger service, it is a diversionary route for when it all goes wrong on HS1. They are not cleared to Charing Cross though, as far as I am aware.

Had to laugh at the news report showing them all tucked up in Ashford service on a Sunday afternoon

Cheers for that info. I wonder if I'll ever end up on one substituted for a Victoria - Ashford stopper. The only problem I can forsee might be that there didn't seem to be very many toilets on the sets I've been on - which may be a problem on slower classic routes

 

[mallard]

Actually the APT held the speed record until HS1 at 162.2mph. The 91 holds the UK locomotive speed record of 162mph.

A 91 also held the passenger-carrying speed record at 154.4mph.

 

[ert47]

The 365s don't even reach 110 mph, let alone 125 mph
And as stated by 91107, the curves aren't an issue on the ECML, but apparently the overhead wires aren't hung tight enough to handle a pantograph moving with 125 mph. This would mean 91s have special pantographs, which other classes don't have (?)

I think the limit is to 125mph although some trains (i think the Pendo) are capable of reaching 140mph but as you mentioned about the overhead wires, they arent tight enough to allow the higher speeds.

I think the issue that 373's had was with the 2 pantographs on one unit. But I dunno

 

[daikilo]

23 diagrams from 29 units from published May diagrams although a few of those diagrams do very little passenger mileage.

Don't know if any of those have been further pruned, but even if not 23 from 29 is pretty poor use of a brand new fleet.

Assuming the data is correct, I'd go for more use on services to/from St.P from the north.

 

[MCR247]

I think the limit is to 125mph although some trains (i think the Pendo) are capable of reaching 140mph but as you mentioned about the overhead wires, they arent tight enough to allow the higher speeds.

I think the issue that 373's had was with the 2 pantographs on one unit. But I dunno

390s don't reach 140 due to no in cab signalling

 

[ert47]

390s don't reach 140 due to no in cab signalling

ahh, I see

 

[87015]

390s don't reach 140 due to no in cab signalling

They must have got cab signalling (TVM430 is it?) as they wouldn't be allowed to touch HS1 without it.

 

[MCR247]

They must have got cab signalling (TVM430 is it?) as they wouldn't be allowed to touch HS1 without it.

390s don't touch HS1

 

[87015]

390s don't touch HS1

My bad, read 395s!

 

[IanXC]

I seem to recall reading that the HS1 OLE is to some European standard where the OLE is sprung much more tightly, and the pantograph on 373s and 395s are set up for this. These more firmly positioned pantographs were as I understand it the reason why the 373s loaned to GNER were restricted to 110mph, their pantographs would have damaged the OLE, even if there was no issue with the power consumption....

 

[Lampshade]

I seem to recall reading that the HS1 OLE is to some European standard where the OLE is sprung much more tightly, and the pantograph on 373s and 395s are set up for this. These more firmly positioned pantographs were as I understand it the reason why the 373s loaned to GNER were restricted to 110mph, their pantographs would have damaged the OLE, even if there was no issue with the power consumption....

This was my understanding as well.

 

[b0b]

Any chance they can be cleared through the Thameslink core, I believe the linespeed on the electrified part of the MML is only 110 anyway.

 

[TGVDUDE]

but remember when the Olympics begin, even though in 2 years, almost every single unit should be out on services no?

 

[jon0844]

I'd expect (no, hope) so.

They'll make a killing with both the premium fare AND the fact that Stratford International is not within the Travelcard zones!