My idea for Merseyrail services to Neston

[Angelos Glazik]

I think the Merseyrail should run to Neston.
This is the new route suggestion stations:
Rock Ferry
Tranmere ( new station to be built )
Green Lane
Birkenhead Central
Hamilton Square ( new platform to be built )
Conway Park
Birkenhead Park
Birkenhead North
Bidston
Upton
Prenton ( new station to be built )
Barnston ( new station to be built )
Heswall
Gayton ( new station to be built )
Neston ( some trains terminate here so new terminating platform to be built )
Little Neston ( new station to be built )
Ness ( new station to be built )
( new track to curve towards Burton )
Burton ( new station to be built )
Hooton ( use terminating platform that is no longer used )

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

We're in the Speculative Ideas section here, so things don't have to be fully worked out, but something which can really add to the interest of ideas like this is if you explain how your idea could be implemented, and why it should be implemented.

 

[martinsh]

Building a new platform at Hamilton Square to make a triangle there would be horrendously expensive, without brionging any clear benefits

 

[option]

Be easier, & a lot lot cheaper, to just take over the operation of the Bidston-Wrexham service from TfW.

 

[30907]

So a new line, serving one smallish village (Burton), rather than reopen the old one (serving Willaston, which is a bit bigger IIRC) - why that option?
Additional stations on the existing line, perhaps, when the 230s have done their stint and the line goes electric.

 

[geoffk]

As it happens I've been out today with a Cheshire Day Ranger ticket. I went as far as Neston on the Borderlands line as I didn't want to risk Shotton with only one minute to catch the return train north!

Bidston is of course an inconvenient terminus operationally. In the past trains from Wrexham have terminated at Seacombe, New Brighton and Birkenhead North. There's certainly potential for an additional station between Upton and Heswall (Woodchurch or Prenton). But if you electrify as far as Neston, a diesel shuttle from there to Wrexham would still need two units (on the existing hourly frequency) and interchange at Neston would involve going through the subway.

 

[PR1Berske]

Be easier, & a lot lot cheaper, to just take over the operation of the Bidston-Wrexham service from TfW.

TfW from Wrecsam/Wrexham to Penbedw/Birkenhead would be workable.... were it not for the massive amount of cost and disruption.

 

[8H]

You could, in the future, and given the cash, theoretically do a Wrexham General Chester Hooton Rock Ferry Canning Street Bidston Neston Shotton Wrexham circular with a tram train type using “the dock branch” to access the revitalised Wirral Waters too. Such things are not impossible with the climate change crisis and decarbonisation increasingly and necessarily important.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As it happens I've been out today with a Cheshire Day Ranger ticket. I went as far as Neston on the Borderlands line as I didn't want to risk Shotton with only one minute to catch the return train north!

Shotton of course is in Wales where the lockdown is still on, so it could have cost you rather a lot extra in a fine if caught there on a leisure journey!

On your main point, what I think I'd do, presuming they are reliable, is to purchase an additional Class 230, and fit all 5 with third rail shoes, then operate them to Liverpool James St, terminating in the disused platform[1]. It might even be possible to do that with the batteries they already have, with the diesels turned back on once leaving the tunnel between Hamilton Square and Birkenhead North.

[1] This might require the addition of a lift, as I'm not sure there is one to that platform, though I suppose passengers requiring that could instead change at Hamilton Square onto a soon-to-be-level-boarding Merseyrail train.

 

[Ianno87]

Shotton of course is in Wales where the lockdown is still on, so it could have cost you rather a lot extra in a fine if caught there on a leisure journey!

On your main point, what I think I'd do, presuming they are reliable, is to purchase an additional Class 230, and fit all 5 with third rail shoes, then operate them to Liverpool James St, terminating in the disused platform[1]. It might even be possible to do that with the batteries they already have, with the diesels turned back on once leaving the tunnel between Hamilton Square and Birkenhead North.

[1] This might require the addition of a lift, as I'm not sure there is one to that platform, though I suppose passengers requiring that could instead change at Hamilton Square onto a soon-to-be-level-boarding Merseyrail train.

Class 230s would have to comply with tunnel safety requirements (e.g. end doors).

Presumably also issues if Merseyrail stations are being adapted for level access for Class 777s.

 

[tetudo boy]

Hamilton Square ( new platform to be built )

It would honestly just be better to have some sort of link between Birkenhead Central and Conway Park instead of taking the long cut to Hamilton Square.

As a Wirral resident, I personally think that the Borderlands line should benefit from a tram-train system or a tram system which runs along the line, which is comparable to the short section on the Snow Hill line. It could be convenient and serve some stations in Birkenhead city centre. The Borderlands Line could also do with a 25 kV 50 Hz AC Overhead electrification, and if so they could use the spare 9 class 323s or some class 333s which are being replaced by class 331s.

 

[geordieblue]

It would honestly just be better to have some sort of link between Birkenhead Central and Conway Park instead of taking the long cut to Hamilton Square.

As a Wirral resident, I personally think that the Borderlands line should benefit from a tram-train system or a tram system which runs along the line, which is comparable to the short section on the Snow Hill line. It could be convenient and serve some stations in Birkenhead city centre. The Borderlands Line could also do with a 25 kV 50 Hz AC Overhead electrification, and if so they could use the spare 9 class 323s or some class 333s which are being replaced by class 331s.

There's no point in electrifying the Borderlands Line to a system that isn't compatible with Merseyrail. If it's electrified, it will be electrified with third-rail.
I also think there's a lot of places in the country that would benefit more from a tram system than Birkenhead. Leeds, for a start!

 

[Neptune]

It would honestly just be better to have some sort of link between Birkenhead Central and Conway Park instead of taking the long cut to Hamilton Square.

As a Wirral resident, I personally think that the Borderlands line should benefit from a tram-train system or a tram system which runs along the line, which is comparable to the short section on the Snow Hill line. It could be convenient and serve some stations in Birkenhead city centre. The Borderlands Line could also do with a 25 kV 50 Hz AC Overhead electrification, and if so they could use the spare 9 class 323s or some class 333s which are being replaced by class 331s.

The 333’s are not being replaced by 331’s. The 333’s (which in any case would be complete overkill for the borderlands route) are quite happy on the route they were purchased for and will be for some time to come. The 331’s are replacing the 321/2 fleets which are heading for GA.

It does seem quite an odd idea in any case to create a 25kv island in 3rd rail land especially on a route with an hourly service. The class 230’s appear to be the perfect compromise on this route.

 

[tetudo boy]

Okay, maybe electrify it at 750v 3rd rail. Maybe we could use some Class 777s if extra units are ordered and Merseyrail takes over the Borderlands line. If not that, maybe some Class 466s or Class 456s?

 

[Neptune]

It’s highly unlikely anymore electrification at 750v DC third rail will be authorised especially for a route with an hourly service. The Class 230’s appears to be a perfect compromise for this route.

 

[HSTEd]

It’s highly unlikely anymore electrification at 750v DC third rail will be authorised especially for a route with an hourly service. The Class 230’s appears to be a perfect compromise for this route.

If Merseyrail takes over the borderlines line, it almost certainly won't be hourly.

It would probably be increased to 15-minute spacings, like pretty much all the other Merseyrail branches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class 230s would have to comply with tunnel safety requirements (e.g. end doors).

The only single-bore tunnel they'd have to use is the very short section at Hamilton Square for the turnout. The rest of it is the old double track tunnel so would not have that requirement. But as 230s were built (as D78s) with end doors, adding them wouldn't seem too big a thing. It would be a cab redesign, though.

Presumably also issues if Merseyrail stations are being adapted for level access for Class 777s.

No issue there, the platforms aren't being changed considerably, just all brought to the same height. Assistance on the 230s would be provided by the guard using a ramp in the conventional manner.

 

[tetudo boy]

Woodchurch really deserves a station, since a part of the line runs along it. It is quite a populated area and I think that the area would benefit from a station.

I think this thread is going off-topic. Maybe I’ll make another thread about improvements to the Borderlands line.

 

[Llandudno]

It’s highly unlikely anymore electrification at 750v DC third rail will be authorised especially for a route with an hourly service. The Class 230’s appears to be a perfect compromise for this route.

The TfW Borderlands service is supposed to be going to 2tph from December.
Should help with connections at Wrexham, Shotton and Bidston

 

[Gareth]

There'll be no non-Merseyrail trains going into the underground system and there shouldn't be. Nor will there be a link crossing Hamilton Square complicating the system and its service pattern.

As for the Borderlands line; it either gets incorporated into Merseyrail in its entirety or not at all (and I'm not convinced it fits that well with the current system). Extending Merseyrail on part of the line will just compromise the viability of the legacy unelectrified section as well as make a less convenient changing point between the two systems. There may be a case of re-extending the terminus from Bidston to Birkenhead North which offers twice the frequency into Liverpool plus trains to New Brighton but this would need to ensure it doesn't interfere too much with the Merseyrail traffic; ideally running on its own track really.