Ribble existing bus depots

[David Verity]

All the BBF16s I have owned, and other sources, have given the address of the Grange depot as Kents Bank Road. However as Kents Bank Road and Albert Road are adjacent I'm sure the depot never actually moved. Depots could easily change their address without moving - witness Burnley depot moving from Grimshaw Street to Centenary Way, and Blackburn George Street moving to Manner Sutton Street.
Grange was always listed as a full depot, implying that it was head of a 'District' with a 'District Traffic Superintendent' (later District Superintendent) in charge. However, it's likely that these definitions weren't always rigidly applied.

These depots without a permanent allocation (in the case of Grange, of service buses) often had an unofficial one. I remember, in my bus-spotting days, that the last Ribble Olympic I 'needed' (and for a long time) was 251 (DRN115), which was officially allocated to Kendal. On one occasion when myself and a school friend were visiting Kendal (which we did at least once a year) I asked a driver if he knew where we might find 251. We received the response that that particular vehicle 'was often at Grange'. Years later, when working for Ribble myself, I discovered that Ingleton depot had its own unofficial allocation. The two service buses were 36' Leopards 469 and 562. The third vehicle was scheduled to be a DP, but I don't know which one was nominated as the regular Ingleton one - Lancaster's allocation at the time was 826/8/9.

If as you say you worked for Ribble you will recall that Engineers and Traffic spoke different languages. A "depot" was where the traffic staff and cash office were based. The buses were kept in "garages" not depots. There were some strange consequences a of this e.g the "depot" for Lancaster was in Cable Street Lancaster but the garage was always referred to as Skerton.

 

[Bovverboy]

What services are meant by the Pendleside stage carriage operations?

By "Pendleside" I was referring to the services which embraced Wheatley Lane, Blacko, Newchurch, Barley and further afield Barnoldswick, Earby and Gisburn. Not very lucrative (apart from Sunday afternoons when services to Barley had been heavily duplicated) and all conceded on tendering to other parties.

I think the services you mention had gone long before deregulation. By 1982, for instance, Burnley & Pendle were running X28 Burnley - Barnoldswick, X26 Earby - Barnoldswick, and 294 Barnoldswick - Colne via Standing Stone Gate. Ribble's Burnley depot, which only a few years earlier had operated two journeys per hour from Barnoldswick (to Colne, and Burnley respectively) were no longer in evidence. They still ran to Southport on the X27, but Burnley depot was not involved. I can't remember what was running to Barley & Newchurch by that time, but the answer was probably, not much.

 

[Bovverboy]

It's my recollection that the Ribble and Cumberland depots at Keswick were quite separate, although they were both on the same site as the bus station. I don't know whether or not there were any shared facilities.
The Ribble depot had a permanent allocation of two coaches, I think. In addition a double-decker would be outstationed from Ambleside (to work the first 555 of the day), and I imagine the Standerwick vehicle operating the London service would have overnighted there too.

Not sure about that - Ribble and Cumberland originally had separate offices but Ribble later moved into the same space as Cumberland although they continued to have separate phone numbers. The garage was pure Cumberland property. Ribble had a designated allocation of four coaches although they were shown on the Ambleside strength. No stage carriage vehicles were officially allocated although as you say there would be an Ambleside bus outstationed if required for the 68/555. Standerwick's Keswick-London vehicle was cleaned - but not serviced or fuelled - by Cumberland staff until latterly in National days when the service was extended to Whitehaven with a Cumberland driver taking over.

We may be talking slightly different periods here. In the time I knew anything about Keswick depot I'm pretty sure the allocation of coaches was two vehicles, these were shown on Ribble's Vehicle Allocation List (to which I had access) as being allocated to Keswick depot.
The stage carriage vehicle wasn't outstationed at Keswick only if required, there was one outstationed there seven nights per week. However this arrangement came to an end sometime in the 1970s when the 555 service was noticeably reduced, after that there simply wasn't an equivalent early journey from Keswick, I think it started from Grasmere using an Ambleside-allocated vehicle.

 

[Bovverboy]

If as you say you worked for Ribble you will recall that Engineers and Traffic spoke different languages. A "depot" was where the traffic staff and cash office were based. The buses were kept in "garages" not depots. There were some strange consequences a of this e.g the "depot" for Lancaster was in Cable Street Lancaster but the garage was always referred to as Skerton.

Yes, I remember Lancaster depot always being called Skerton, but I presumed this to be a legacy from the time when Ribble had two depots in Lancaster.

 

[86247]

Ribble did operate into Cheshire they did the 329 or might have been 339 Southport to warrington service,as its in one of my old crosville timetables for 1976 as it was a joint service with MPTE.

 

[Bovverboy]

Ribble did operate into Cheshire they did the 329 or might have been 339 Southport to warrington service,as its in one of my old crosville timetables for 1976 as it was a joint service with MPTE.

Posted earlier..

Ribble didn't have a depot in Cheshire,, think only routes Ribble operated in Cheshire was the Southport-Warrington route, Cheshire was Crosville plus the municipals, & LUT.

Presumably meaning that Ribble only operated into Cheshire after the boundary was moved to include Warrington. I don't recall Ribble ever operating stage services south of the Mersey. Same applied to LUT, they ran into Warrington, but no further south, I don't think.

 

[TheSel]

Presumably meaning that Ribble only operated into Cheshire after the boundary was moved to include Warrington. I don't recall Ribble ever operating stage services south of the Mersey. Same applied to LUT, they ran into Warrington, but no further south, I don't think.

North Western was a significant company operator in Cheshire, in addition to Crosville. The only municipals based in Cheshire were Birkenhead, Wallasey, Chester, Stockport, and SHMD, but Ashton and Manchester, at least, also ran in.

Ribble did operate into Cheshire they did the 329 or might have been 339 Southport to warrington service,as its in one of my old crosville timetables for 1976 as it was a joint service with MPTE.

Seen at Warrington (Bridge Foot) Bus Station - October 1974.

 

[TheSel]

Further to my post yesterday (#60), I've now found this one at Skelhorne Street. In the depot area, with the entrance to the upper level bus station behind. Undated, but probably late 1974 / early 1975.

 

[Bovverboy]

Seen at Warrington (Bridge Foot) Bus Station - October 1974.

Indeed, but my point had been that Ribble only ran into Cheshire on stage services after the Cheshire boundary was altered to include Warrington (and Widnes), which was from 1 April 1974. It didn't run into Cheshire prior to that date.

 

[Bovverboy]

Further to my post yesterday (#60), I've now found this one at Skelhorne Street. In the depot area, with the entrance to the upper level bus station behind. Undated, but probably late 1974 / early 1975.

The depot address was always given as Hotham Place, an address which doesn't seem to exist now. It's my recollection that only service buses were parked in the depot overnight (which, in the 1960s was double-deck only, there were no Ribble saloons in the immediate Liverpool area in those days) and that coaches were parked in the coach station (i.e. the upper level of the bus/coach station). That may only be approximately correct, of course not living in Liverpool I was only ever there in the daytime, and never the middle of the night.

 

[David Verity]

Indeed, but my point had been that Ribble only ran into Cheshire on stage services after the Cheshire boundary was altered to include Warrington (and Widnes), which was from 1 April 1974. It didn't run into Cheshire prior to that date.

Now that Widnes has been added to the debate it may (or may not) be helpful to note that Ribble was one of three operators who jointly held the licence for the Wigan-Widnes stage carriage service. Oh, and Wigan depot ran a seasonal Widnes - Blackpool express service) i'll retire to my corner now.

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, I remember Lancaster depot always being called Skerton, but I presumed this to be a legacy from the time when Ribble had two depots in Lancaster.

thats the first time I've heard reference to a second depot. Where was the second supposed to be?

 

[TheSel]

thats the first time I've heard reference to a second depot. Where was the second supposed to be?

Info from 'Ribble Volume 2 - An anthology' by TB Maund and AA Townsin (ISBN 1 898432 08 2), 1994.

There were originally two garages in Lancaster. Skerton garage was used by Lambsfield Motors who took their name from 'Lamb's Field' on which it was built. ... The County Motors depot in Dalton Square was used until 1934 and was eventually sold to Lancaster Corporation for £4250 on 10th May 1939.

 

[Sandy Drew]

Did the last Ribble garage in Lancaster become a farmfoods store, or where the demolished land is at the side?

Further down on the same side of the road (now apartments) is what was the Lancaster council bus garage, before being merged with Morecambe undertaking??

 

[mbonwick]

Neither.
The Skerton depot is on the other side of Skerton bridge to the former LCT depot, and is now apartments.
Then - https://twitter.com/Stumar39/status/802334273554567168/photo/1
Now - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.0...4!1sc-i4jprIqmXE5MAm6B-loA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Farmfood was originally Kingsway cinema, and then a car showroom.

 

[randyrippley]

Did the last Ribble garage in Lancaster become a farmfoods store, or where the demolished land is at the side?

Further down on the same side of the road (now apartments) is what was the Lancaster council bus garage, before being merged with Morecambe undertaking??

No, the Ribble Garage was on Owen Rd, on the north side of Skerton bridge.
The Lancaster Bus garage was on the south side of Skerton bridge, in the same building as the municipal swimming pool. The facades have been preserved and a new block of flats built above them, on Caton Rd

 

[randyrippley]

Info from 'Ribble Volume 2 - An anthology' by TB Maund and AA Townsin (ISBN 1 898432 08 2), 1994.

There were originally two garages in Lancaster. Skerton garage was used by Lambsfield Motors who took their name from 'Lamb's Field' on which it was built. ... The County Motors depot in Dalton Square was used until 1934 and was eventually sold to Lancaster Corporation for £4250 on 10th May 1939.

I've got great difficulty believing that - its hard to comprehend which building in Dalton Square it could be
Unless by "depot" they again just mean "office". Certainly Dalton Square was used as a bus terminus prior to the bus station being built

 

[6Gman]

The street plan shows the Morrisons address as "Winter Gardens" which had been the site of the original bus station whilst the CLC line into Southport was still open. With the railway going the site outside of the station building was redeveloped for coach parking and there was also a Model Visage. It's a nice touch that the clock tower still stands - I assume that the frontage to the station has listed status.

Mrs 6G and I have actually slept in the clock tower! It offers excellent views of passing buses too.

 

[David Verity]

No, the Ribble Garage was on Owen Rd, on the north side of Skerton bridge.
The Lancaster Bus garage was on the south side of Skerton bridge, in the same building as the municipal swimming pool. The facades have been preserved and a new block of flats built above them, on Caton Rd

And from a quick scan of Google Earth it appears that the former Ribble Depot (Traffic Speak) offices on Cable Street are now being/or have been converted into apartments.

 

[David Verity]

I've got great difficulty believing that - its hard to comprehend which building in Dalton Square it could be
Unless by "depot" they again just mean "office". Certainly Dalton Square was used as a bus terminus prior to the bus station being built

I've just dug out a copy of "Rules Regulations and Instructions to Drivers" dated 1929 issued by Ribble's Chief Engineer. In the list of garages it states "Lancaster - County Motors Limited, adjacent to stand" with a telephone number footnoted "office number, ask for garage extension"
Whether that clears up or further muddies the waters I'll leave it for others to decide.

 

[randyrippley]

And from a quick scan of Google Earth it appears that the former Ribble Depot (Traffic Speak) offices on Cable Street are now being/or have been converted into apartments.

thats correct, most of the buildings on that side of Cable St are now student flats

 

[David Verity]

thats correct, most of the buildings on that side of Cable St are now student flats

Thanks for clarifying. I assume all that's left in the "old" Lancaster is a traffic office on the Bus Station?

 

[randyrippley]

I've just dug out a copy of "Rules Regulations and Instructions to Drivers" dated 1929 issued by Ribble's Chief Engineer. In the list of garages it states "Lancaster - County Motors Limited, adjacent to stand" with a telephone number footnoted "office number, ask for garage extension"
Whether that clears up or further muddies the waters I'll leave it for others to decide.

two photos of Dalton Square from the air, taken from the west in 1929











both are from https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk

only building that looks remotely possible is the two storey building facing the camera, centre right of the photos. Has what may be fuel pumps and garage doors. Looks like a yard behind it with what may be buses

 

[randyrippley]

Thanks for clarifying. I assume all that's left in the "old" Lancaster is a traffic office on the Bus Station?

correct

 

[David Verity]

two photos of Dalton Square from the air, taken from the west in 1929

View attachment 79801

View attachment 79802







both are from https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk

only building that looks remotely possible is the two storey building facing the camera, centre right of the photos. Has what may be fuel pumps and garage doors. Looks like a yard behind it with what may be buses

According to the Maund/Townsin "Anthology" 33 vehicles came to Ribble with the County Motors acquisition. Would suggest that either there were other non-operational premises somewhere or the buses were quickly dispersed to other locations. Maybe drivers were instructed to call for running repairs or fuel

 

[randyrippley]

According to the Maund/Townsin "Anthology" 33 vehicles came to Ribble with the County Motors acquisition. Would suggest that either there were other non-operational premises somewhere or the buses were quickly dispersed to other locations. Maybe drivers were instructed to call for running repairs or fuel

May just be coincidence, but the building direction opposite the Morecambe Ribble garage on Lancaster Road was the County Garage
I've no idea of its history

 

[David Verity]

May just be coincidence, but the building direction opposite the Morecambe Ribble garage on Lancaster Road was the County Garage
I've no idea of its history

Me neither although it appears to be still in business today. Various sources quote Dalton Square as having been closed in 1934 so presumably Ribble didn't see a long term future for it.

 

[randyrippley]

Me neither although it appears to be still in business today.

car wash and snooker hall I think

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Me neither although it appears to be still in business today. Various sources quote Dalton Square as having been closed in 1934 so presumably Ribble didn't see a long term future for it.

It would imagine that Skelton depot, a purpose built facility, replaced it. It certainly had a pre war look to it.

 

[David Verity]

It would imagine that Skelton depot, a purpose built facility, replaced it. It certainly had a pre war look to it.

Quite possibly - the Skerton site came into Ribble possession in 1927 with the takeover of Lancashire and Westmorland. The building which was to see out Ribble's BET/NBC days in Lancaster was opened in 1930. Apparently Dalton Square still had some life in it, if it lasted until 1934