Future of Class 180 Units Discussion

[Nottingham59]

Currently the ones they have aren't working and they haven't got them to work yet either.

Now that's interesting to know. And welcome to the forum!

 

[MB162435]

Before GWR settled on Castle Sets, I always thought their 180s should end up on their Cardiff- Paignton/Penzance services, as the 150s were really struggling on those services, although Castle Sets are a brilliant solution, 180s might of not been allowed on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route like HST's weren't

The 180s are likely to end up with an open access operator of some sort, either Grand Central or a brand new operator somewhere

 

[Energy]

Before GWR settled on Castle Sets, I always thought their 180s should end up on their Cardiff- Paignton/Penzance services, as the 150s were really struggling on those services, although Castle Sets are a brilliant solution, 180s might of not been allowed on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route like HST's weren't

The 180s are likely to end up with an open access operator of some sort, either Grand Central or a brand new operator somewhere

There are only 4 180s available and that will be in 2022 when EMR are done with them, even if GWR got them before EMR they wouldn't have come until recently.

 

[MB162435]

There are only 4 180s available and that will be in 2022 when EMR are done with them, even if GWR got them before EMR they wouldn't have come until recently.

Or they could of kept their 5 sets instead of giving them to Grand Central and built up the fleet with the Hull Trains sets, would of been 2 sets less then the number of Castle sets they have now, although as I mentioned I thought of the 180s being used in the South West before the idea of Castle Sets came about

The benefit of using Castle Sets is that they already had all the stock anyway, so didn't have to worry too much about the stock not being available

 

[Energy]

Or they could of kept their 5 sets instead of giving them to Grand Central and built up the fleet with the Hull Trains sets, would of been 2 sets less then the number of Castle sets they have now, although as I mentioned I thought of the 180s being used in the South West before the idea of Castle Sets came about

The benefit of using Castle Sets is that they already had all the stock anyway, so didn't have to worry too much about the stock not being available

This is still too few to replace the current Castle Sets, it would make more sense for them to use 5 car 802s to replace the short HSTs as GWR already have a large fleet of these.

 

[MB162435]

This is still too few to replace the current Castle Sets, it would make more sense for them to use 5 car 802s to replace the short HSTs as GWR already have a large fleet of these.

I do agree that 802s would be the way forward now or MK5 Hauled Sets possibly?

Believe the Castle Sets have a 20 year or so life expectancy so they shouldn't have to worry about it anytime soon

 

[Energy]

I do agree that 802s would be the way forward now or MK5 Hauled Sets possibly?

Believe the Castle Sets have a 20 year or so life expectancy so they shouldn't have to worry about it anytime soon

Mk5 sets don't have an advantage over 802s and would just create another small fleet.

 

[MB162435]

Mk5 sets don't have an advantage over 802s and would just create another small fleet.

I do like the 802s so wouldn't mind them being the regional replacements one day, they would offer even more capacity over the Castle Sets and greater acceleration

Unless they order some MK5s for the Night riviera as well when the MK3s need replacing, and order some for the regional services at the same time

 

[greatvoyager]

Before GWR settled on Castle Sets, I always thought their 180s should end up on their Cardiff- Paignton/Penzance services, as the 150s were really struggling on those services, although Castle Sets are a brilliant solution, 180s might of not been allowed on the Cardiff-Portsmouth route like HST's weren't

The 180s are likely to end up with an open access operator of some sort, either Grand Central or a brand new operator somewhere

I agree with that, although whether the 180s would have still been reliable on that service would be the biggest question.

 

[greatvoyager]

Currently the ones they have aren't working and they haven't got them to work yet either.

Thanks for the info, that's interesting to know.

 

[MB162435]

I agree with that, although whether the 180s would have still been reliable on that service would be the biggest question.

Definitely, don't believe GWR were sad to see them go, especially the first time although their 2nd stint with GWR was certainly more successful

The 158s already had a good reputation and reliability in the South West, so was a good candidate to come down here once they finished in the Bristol area, none of the depots in the South West have any experience with 180s which would certainly hit reliability

 

[Clarence Yard]

Angel tried to offer the 180 units back to FG/GWR for the latest DA. Once we had stopped laughing, Angel said, " o.k. we had to try!" They are increasingly costly to keep running, unreliable, ageing and they will not be coming back to any FG operation.

Quite apart from that, training staff up again for these units wouldn't be cheap.

 

[MB162435]

Angel tried to offer the 180 units back to FG/GWR for the latest DA. Once we had stopped laughing, Angel said, " o.k. we had to try!" They are increasingly costly to keep running, unreliable, ageing and they will not be coming back to any FG operation.

Quite apart from that, training staff up again for these units wouldn't be cheap.

Maybe they thought 3rd time lucky with FGW/GWR

Grand Central seems to be the only fan of the 180s at the moment

 

[Energy]

With only 4 units I doubt they are much use to GWR, all 14 would be an unlikely possibility instead of short HSTs but still wouldn't make much sense. Anyway by the time they have finished with EMR hopefully we see them go to Grand Central

 

[dgl]

Angel tried to offer the 180 units back to FG/GWR for the latest DA. Once we had stopped laughing, Angel said, " o.k. we had to try!" They are increasingly costly to keep running, unreliable, ageing and they will not be coming back to any FG operation.

Quite apart from that, training staff up again for these units wouldn't be cheap.

Angel: Well if you need some more trains we have these excellent 125MPH DMU's going spare, PRM compliant, comfortable and offered at a bargain price,
First: If this is the 180's you are talking about we were the ones who ordered them in the first place,
Angel: Oh we forgot about that, so you know about the unreliability and penchant to catch fire
First: Yes, we even did a video on the faults and failures
Angel: So we can't offer them to you,
First: Unfortunately not, you couldn't even pay us to use them, passengers like to get from A-to-B and these don't do that, plus the 80x's are bad enough for reliability and we don't need more headaches,
Angel: Well we tried, now I wonder if we can con GC into taking some more on or find someone who will want to lease these lovely DMU's assuming they don't know the history, we'll just say they use the same engines as the 22x's and they have excellent reliability
First: no-one is that stupid, you only potential market for the trains is Gillette and even they might tell you to jog on!

 

[Energy]

Angel: Well if you need some more trains we have these excellent 125MPH DMU's going spare, PRM compliant, comfortable and offered at a bargain price,
First: If this is the 180's you are talking about we were the ones who ordered them in the first place,
Angel: Oh we forgot about that, so you know about the unreliability and penchant to catch fire
First: Yes, we even did a video on the faults and failures
Angel: So we can't offer them to you,
First: Unfortunately not, you couldn't even pay us to use them, passengers like to get from A-to-B and these don't do that, plus the 80x's are bad enough for reliability and we don't need more headaches,
Angel: Well we tried, now I wonder if we can con GC into taking some more on or find someone who will want to lease these lovely DMU's assuming they don't know the history, we'll just say they use the same engines as the 22x's and they have excellent reliability
First: no-one is that stupid, you only potential market for the trains is Gillette and even they might tell you to jog on!

The reliability isn't great but has managed to improve, GC seem happy with them so they will probably get the remaining 4.

 

[popeter45]

I do like the 802s so wouldn't mind them being the regional replacements one day, they would offer even more capacity over the Castle Sets and greater acceleration

Unless they order some MK5s for the Night riviera as well when the MK3s need replacing, and order some for the regional services at the same time

that did just give me a dumb joke idea
take the 4 leftover 5 car 180's, reform them into 2 8 car 180/2's with a possible downrating to 100mph and convert them to run as a DMU sleeper?

 

[MB162435]

that did just give me a dumb joke idea
take the 4 leftover 5 car 180's, reform them into 2 8 car 180/2's with a possible downrating to 100mph and convert them to run as a DMU sleeper?

Would be an interesting venture, although I think people are nervous enough travelling behind a 57 wondering if they will get to their destination, yet alone a 180 might also cost a fair bit, would be safer to just go new maybe?

Although GWR seems to be happy with the MK3s on the NR for remainder of the direct award, can't see the NR stock changing until a new franchise starts, better chance of IET's being converted or built for the NR I would think

 

[greatvoyager]

The reliability isn't great but has managed to improve, GC seem happy with them so they will probably get the remaining 4.

That's certainly true.

 

[greatvoyager]

that did just give me a dumb joke idea
take the 4 leftover 5 car 180's, reform them into 2 8 car 180/2's with a possible downrating to 100mph and convert them to run as a DMU sleeper?

Stranger things have happened.

 

[route101]

When did the second stint of the 180s take place with GWR?

 

[Domh245]

When did the second stint of the 180s take place with GWR?

2012 to 2017

 

[hexagon789]

When did the second stint of the 180s take place with GWR?

May 2012 to December 2017 iirc, seemed to be regulars down the Cotswolds way

 

[greatvoyager]

May 2012 to December 2017 iirc, seemed to be regulars down the Cotswolds way

They certainly were, and I always wondered if their seconds stint was going to be successful.

 

[greatvoyager]

There seem to be limited options for 180 at the moment, particularly the 4 going to EMR.

 

[TheWalrus]

There seem to be limited options for 180 at the moment, particularly the 4 going to EMR.

After EMR I can’t see much demand for 125mph DMUs, except maybe GC. Everything else is going electric or bi-mode except XC and can’t see them going there.

 

[hexagon789]

They certainly were, and I always wondered if their seconds stint was going to be successful.

Better than their first I would say, but I think they were arguably too small a fleet and too small in length to be used effectively.

 

[greatvoyager]

After EMR I can’t see much demand for 125mph DMUs, except maybe GC. Everything else is going electric or bi-mode except XC and can’t see them going there.

Have to agree there.

 

[greatvoyager]

Better than their first I would say, but I think they were arguably too small a fleet and too small in length to be used effectively.

That's a good point.

 

[Energy]

If they didn't have their initial reliability problems I would expect more would have been ordered so the issue of a micro fleet wouldn't be as much of a problem.