What COVID-inspired changes should the transport operators retain once things are fully back to normal?

[Bletchleyite]

I rather suspect the innovations forced upon the transport operators as C19 measures will actually make them more competitive in the long term.

True of takeaways, I reckon, but the railway? Hopefully LNER's ability to make reservations when you already have a ticket will stick (it's a nuisance that you could only do that at a booking office before) - but what else? We might see less cash acceptance, perhaps? But I can't think of much else worth keeping.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

What COVID-inspired changes should the transport operators retain once things are fully back to normal?

None whatsoever. Now the pandemic's as good as over, history will record the rail industry's reaction as disproportionately excessive, exaggerating the perceived risks and ultimately likely to cause a huge fall in demand for rail travel for many years to come. What other business would spend three months telling prospective customers to go away and then expect to retain their custom in the long term?

 

[Ianno87]

Hopefully bus passengers will be much more accustomed to using contactless payment where they can.

On trains, E-tickets will be more popular, hopefully helping reduce ticket office/machine queues.

A bit of easing of peak crowding, as people adapt to flexible working. End of commuters vieing for their favourite seats every single day.

 

[Butts]

What COVID-inspired changes should the transport operators retain once things are fully back to normal?

None whatsoever. Now the pandemic's as good as over, history will record the rail industry's reaction as disproportionately excessive, exaggerating the perceived risks and ultimately likely to cause a huge fall in demand for rail travel for many years to come. What other business would spend three months telling prospective customers to go away and then expect to retain their custom in the long term?

Here Here Haddock !!

Did I hear a quote yesterday saying Car Travel is back up to 70% of it's pre-Covid levels (in England at least) but Rail is languishing in the single figure percentile - what a surprise.

 

[NorthOxonian]

In the case of buses, I hope the ability to see how busy your bus is remains (whether powered by live data or machine learning). Also a greater switch to contactless and app based ticketing - I'd like to see this rise in mobile ticketing lead to a national bus ticket app developed. That would reduce the need for having several apps if you live on the border of a few companies, and would allow the sale of multi-operator tickets such as the Discovery day ticket.

Not sure about anything the railways should retain - possibly the "Anytime Advances" which WMT have created which allow travel on any service during a particular day but must be booked in advance - essentially similar to the idea of a "Saver Half".

But in both cases we really need a return to the old normal (not a poxy masked/social distanced new normal) as soon as possible. By the end of the year at the absolute latest, or a whole generation might well get cars for Christmas and be lost for good!

 

[Skymonster]

None whatsoever. Now the pandemic's as good as over, history will record the rail industry's reaction as disproportionately excessive, exaggerating the perceived risks and ultimately likely to cause a huge fall in demand for rail travel for many years to come. What other business would spend three months telling prospective customers to go away and then expect to retain their custom in the long term?[/SIZE]

Spot on. Behavioural patterns changing over time is not a problem, but retaining unnecessary restrictions and accepting the concept of “the new normal” is a surrender of hard won freedoms in the face of a little adversity.

 

[YorksDMU]

None. We must get back to normal as soon as possible and get the virus consigned to history. Let’s have full trains and buses back, and get people out of their cars.

 

[Huntergreed]

None. We must get back to normal as soon as possible and get the virus consigned to history. Let’s have full trains and buses back, and get people out of their cars.

As much as I strongly agree with your claim, this is not going to happen as the government are entirely hellbent on eradicating the virus (which, unless a vaccine comes, is actually going to prolong the crisis as the only other option is herd immunity).
One more generic change I would like to see after this crisis is that people start to respect personal space and an improvement in general hygiene, I’m not saying it’s dreadful but I definitely think this would be a positive move for public health in general.

 

[BJames]

I support contactless payment on buses and trams (Nottingham's NET NETGO! app, released last October is great and has turned out to be a wise creation before this pandemic).

Other than that, although I wouldn't mind more real-time loading information I don't really mind crowds as much as some do.

One more generic change I would like to see after this crisis is that people start to respect personal space and an improvement in general hygiene, I’m not saying it’s dreadful but I definitely think this would be a positive move for public health in general.

I agree, general hygiene and just good manners would be great but I wouldn't be surprised to see this unfortunately dip off once the pandemic is over, and people forget that hundreds of other colds, flus and viruses are still in existence.

 

[yorksrob]

Having hand sanitizer more readily available would be a good thing to continue.

 

[AM9]

Spot on. Behavioural patterns changing over time is not a problem, but retaining unnecessary restrictions and accepting the concept of “the new normal” is a surrender of hard won freedoms in the face of a little adversity.

'Normal' isn't a precise state, it's a manly nostalgic idea of something comfatable. In reality, it is constantly changing and global event as significant as a pandemic are likely to create step change, where certain human activities will cease of be different to the recent past. Areas that have already been discussed by experts include work patterns, physical (as in 'high street') shops, personal transport (a rise in cycling and walking) and many others. Some of these changes will just be hastening progress that was already happening, particularly shopping and transport greening, however much dinosaurs insist we will go back to January 2020.
Everybody will just have to get used to the 'new normal' - even Lord Snooty.

 

[Huntergreed]

Everybody will just have to get used to the 'new normal' - even Lord Snooty.

What you say is true, but there's a difference between small societal changes making the way we do things slightly different (ie development) compared to the ridiculous, unviable 'new normal' that politicians refer to, which involves distancing and living under dystopian restrictions forever, that's simply unviable, unsustainable, impracticable and it can't happen.

 

[Skymonster]

'Normal' isn't a precise state, it's a manly nostalgic idea of something comfatable. In reality, it is constantly changing and global event as significant as a pandemic are likely to create step change, where certain human activities will cease of be different to the recent past.

I get that totally, and actually I don’t have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with is events like this being used as a lever to force change. So COVID-19 should not be used as a mechanism to - for example - restrict the use of cash, enforce reservations on trains, restrict air travel, etc. These and other similar changes might come as a result of behavioural change that does not revert to normal as we exit the virus restrictions, but if they happen we need to let them happen through evolution rather than enforcement.

Everybody will just have to get used to the 'new normal' - even Lord Snooty.

Only if the “new normal” is a side effect of our current circumstances - not by prolonging change for the sake of it. And I have no idea who Lord Snooty is.

 

[underbank]

What other business would spend three months telling prospective customers to go away and then expect to retain their custom in the long term?

The NHS.

 

[yorksrob]

'Normal' isn't a precise state, it's a manly nostalgic idea of something comfatable. In reality, it is constantly changing and global event as significant as a pandemic are likely to create step change, where certain human activities will cease of be different to the recent past. Areas that have already been discussed by experts include work patterns, physical (as in 'high street') shops, personal transport (a rise in cycling and walking) and many others. Some of these changes will just be hastening progress that was already happening, particularly shopping and transport greening, however much dinosaurs insist we will go back to January 2020.
Everybody will just have to get used to the 'new normal' - even Lord Snooty.

The truth is that change will come from this pandemic, but it should be change that is desireable, rather than forced.

Your example of changing work patterns is a case in point. It is desireable in it's own right that people should have an option of working from home and enjoy more flexible hours, however people being forced to work from home for ever more is undesireable and should be resisted.

Enabling more walking and cycling in cities is highly desireable, however any long term measures to make public transport unattractive would be undesireable and should be residted.

 

[Butts]

Having hand sanitizer more readily available would be a good thing to continue.

Still travelling with your "inflatable companion" then I see !!

 

[yorksrob]

Still travelling with your "inflatable companion" then I see !!

If it's good enough for a Korean football stadium !!

 

[AM9]

The truth is that change will come from this pandemic, but it should be change that is desireable, rather than forced.

Your example of changing work patterns is a case in point. It is desireable in it's own right that people should have an option of working from home and enjoy more flexible hours, however people being forced to work from home for ever more is undesireable and should be resisted.

Enabling walking and cycling in cities is highly desireable, however any long term measures to make public transport unattractive would be undesireable and should be residted.

Changing work patterns might become the norm for many jobs because of the savings for both the employer and the employee. If nothing else, the restrictions of the last three months have proven that much more home working is not only viable, but more effective. As a result, it may be that a significant part of job functions are only availble as working from home so there will be no work for those who won't accept the 'new normal'. That would be change that is desirable to the employers, partly because of their lower costs, but also because their competitors would otherwise have an advantage over them. In another time, one of the first widespread impacts of IT in offices was the removal of many secretarial jobs. The 'typing pool' was a feature of any medium to large organisation, which over a decade or less almost disappeared. There were those that complained (in addition to the typists themselves), but the imperative of maintaining competition just forced the change in.
On the travel front, I think that there will be reduced traffic for some time meaning that safe levels of separation vs some new level of revenue will be around for 2-3 years, and it will be encumbent on the government to manage that - not only from the simple cynical capitalist 'profit at all costs' angle, but also as the impetus of greening transport really gathers.

 

[squizzler]

The thread title refers to 'covid inspired changes', so I reckon now is the time to go with full recast of the fares system as proposed by Rail Delivery Group. it is to be found on their fancy new 'Big Plans, Big Changes' website, a nifty resource I just discovered in researching this post.

The benefits of doing it now is that the algorithms that manage yield can be set very low to build up business and only start jacking up the fares when the demand for services needs managing.

One more generic change I would like to see after this crisis is that people start to respect personal space and an improvement in general hygiene,

I would welcome a world where rail operators retain the principle that customers are renting some personal space to travel within, rather than just a warm body to pack in any old how. Reservations only travel (discussed here in Covid context) is something I would like to see retained for long distance services.

What COVID-inspired changes should the transport operators retain once things are fully back to normal?
None whatsoever.

That's just silly. Change and progress defines railways, it is a young transport system (compared to roads some of which date at least as far back as the Romans).

Besides, who would argue against frequent cleaning of trains and an absence of mangled copies of 'Metro' on all the seats being good things to keep?

 

[yorksrob]

Changing work patterns might become the norm for many jobs because of the savings for both the employer and the employee. If nothing else, the restrictions of the last three months have proven that much more home working is not only viable, but more effective. As a result, it may be that a significant part of job functions are only availble as working from home so there will be no work for those who won't accept the 'new normal'. That would be change that is desirable to the employers, partly because of their lower costs, but also because their competitors would otherwise have an advantage over them. In another time, one of the first widespread impacts of IT in offices was the removal of many secretarial jobs. The 'typing pool' was a feature of any medium to large organisation, which over a decade or less almost disappeared. There were those that complained (in addition to the typists themselves), but the imperative of maintaining competition just forced the change in.
On the travel front, I think that there will be reduced traffic for some time meaning that safe levels of separation vs some new level of revenue will be around for 2-3 years, and it will be encumbent on the government to manage that - not only from the simple cynical capitalist 'profit at all costs' angle, but also as the impetus of greening transport really gathers.

My personal suspicion is that employers will eventually find that actually people aren't as productive from home as they'd hoped, and that actually, some time working together, with all the stimulus that that brings is desireable.

In terms of travel, I believe that what is deemed to be a safe level of separation amongst passenger will quickly reduce as medical breakthroughs against COVID-19 begin to mount up, but greening transport will continue apace because of climate change. From a personal point of view, I very much hope that this will result in our towns and cities becoming more walkable.

 

[yorksrob]

Another one for the railway - functioning toilet facilities on trains and at stations (not just those available with a disabled key) is vital for hygeine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Enabling more walking and cycling in cities is highly desireable, however any long term measures to make public transport unattractive would be undesireable and should be residted.

Agreed. Those additional cyclists and pedestrians need to come out of cars, not off trains and buses.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The thread title refers to 'covid inspired changes', so I reckon now is the time to go with full recast of the fares system as proposed by Rail Delivery Group. it is to be found on their fancy new 'Big Plans, Big Changes' website, a nifty resource I just discovered in researching this post.

I'm betting the designer of that only tested it on their phone - the viewing window is tiny on a desktop! Zoom it to 60% and it's usable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I read quite early on, I think in Modern Railways, is that one TOC was quoted as saying something like "we've now realised we can operate a reliable service if we operate a more realistic frequency" or somesuch. The mind boggles as to why that never occurred to them before, but I hope, so far as is feasible, we don't see increases back to previous levels of frequency at known pinch points like Castlefield, but instead coupling those trains together to run longer trains on slightly lower frequencies that are appropriate to the infrastructure, allowing reliability and punctuality to return.

 

[squizzler]

Your example of changing work patterns is a case in point. It is desireable in it's own right that people should have an option of working from home and enjoy more flexible hours, however people being forced to work from home for ever more is undesireable and should be resisted.

The reduction of the significance of the rush hour will make the rail operators have to compete more aggressively for discretionary travel, which will be to the benefit of customers.

Enabling more walking and cycling in cities is highly desireable, however any long term measures to make public transport unattractive would be undesireable and should be residted.

The walking and cycling measures are generally carved from the carriageway and car parking, so will hopefully reduce motor use, but will there be space left for bus priority measures?

I'm betting the designer of that only tested it on their phone - the viewing window is tiny on a desktop! Zoom it to 60% and it's usable.

I am on mac (safari browser) and it seems fine on my system, what are you running?

 

[yorksrob]

The reduction of the significance of the rush hour will make the rail operators have to compete more aggressively for discretionary travel, which will be to the benefit of customers.

This would be a great side effect !

 

[Bantamzen]

My personal suspicion is that employers will eventually find that actually people aren't as productive from home as they'd hoped, and that actually, some time working together, with all the stimulus that that brings is desireable.

We've been having this discussion at my place. For the next few months we've been told we'll be working from home pretty much permanently, but longer term we'll be given the option of more flexible working which I'm certainly planning on doing. So maybe a couple of days in the office (although we have sites closer than Leeds, so I may shift to one of these) with the rest at home. I may even contemplate compressing my hours to just work 4 days rather than 5. Might as well get that work-life balance!

​

In terms of travel, I believe that what is deemed to be a safe level of separation amongst passenger will quickly reduce as medical breakthroughs against COVID-19 begin to mount up, but greening transport will continue apace because of climate change. From a personal point of view, I very much hope that this will result in our towns and cities becoming more walkable.

I think we are rapidly approaching the point at which we will be able to say with confidence that we are already there. And we need it, there is little point in trying to convince people to use public transport as part of a greener travel regime if capacity is less than half what it should be, and you have to dress as if you are about to undertake invasive surgery to be allowed on-board.

One thing I read quite early on, I think in Modern Railways, is that one TOC was quoted as saying something like "we've now realised we can operate a reliable service if we operate a more realistic frequency" or somesuch. The mind boggles as to why that never occurred to them before, but I hope, so far as is feasible, we don't see increases back to previous levels of frequency at known pinch points like Castlefield, but instead coupling those trains together to run longer trains on slightly lower frequencies that are appropriate to the infrastructure, allowing reliability and punctuality to return.

You had to sneak Castlefield in didn't you....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am on mac (safari browser) and it seems fine on my system, what are you running?

Firefox on a Windows 10 laptop. I guess you perhaps have a large monitor or high resolution? On mine, only just over half the screen is available for the content, unlike most sites of this style the top navigation stuff doesn't compress as you scroll down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This would be a great side effect !

Provided they put the effort into competing with the car, and don't just do their usual nonsense of poaching from other TOCs and coach companies which does nothing whatsoever to grow the overall public transport market.

Note to Avanti: £300+ Anytime Returns for any domestic journey don't compete with anything.

 

[yorksrob]

Provided they put the effort into competing with the car, and don't just do their usual nonsense of poaching from other TOCs and coach companies which does nothing whatsoever to grow the overall public transport market.

Note to Avanti: £300+ Anytime Returns for any domestic journey don't compete with anything.

My hope is that all of those long rural routes, which have been seen as a bit of an unwanted afterthought for decades, will become the shop window of the railway industry, taking people on their leisure activities and opening up rail for new customers.

And yes, the £300 fares need to go. "Hardly any of our passengers use them" well get rid of them then.