Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[Bikeman78]

The "White Collar" TSSA union apparently still don't want the "wider public" to use the rail network despite the requirement to wear face coverings:

Union Sounds Warning As Public Transport Face Coverings Become Compulsory - News

This seems a perverse view for a union that's supposedly concerned about its members long term job prospects and wants increased public transport usage to take.

So what will it take for TSSA to allow people to travel by train again?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So what will it take for TSSA to allow people to travel by train again?

Mass compulsory redundancy of rail staff (depending upon the generosity of severance payments).

 

[Skymonster]

and 4 in the last crowded carriage.

Oh no, four people in a carriage. Some people are real risk takers!! Honestly, I would be more concerned about the risk of touching something that has been infected (a table, a set, a door button) by a passenger that is nolonger on the train than I would be about sitting in a carriage with the current loadings.

 

[43066]

The "White Collar" TSSA union apparently still don't want the "wider public" to use the rail network despite the requirement to wear face coverings:

Union Sounds Warning As Public Transport Face Coverings Become Compulsory - News

This seems a perverse view for a union that's supposedly concerned about its members long term job prospects and wants increased public transport usage to take.

I knew this would happen. It's utterly, utterly stupid.

As do I.

I'm in a Union myself and if my union had this attitude I would quit.

Also agreed - and my union is in favour of these ridiculous measures. It strikes me as wishing our jobs away! I’m disappointed in the lack of uptick in passenger numbers this week - it’s little different to how things have been over the last couple of weeks.

I know several people who have said they will be actively avoiding public transport until the requirement to wear masks is dropped. We need to be attracting passengers back, because ultimately our jobs depend on the railway being well used! I drove a train earlier which had more staff than passengers on it. It’s not the first time that has happened in recent weeks, and it’s clearly unsustainable.

Yeah, it's meant to "reassure" people, but just massively freaks me out instead. I don't currently have to use public transport in England, but when work picks up again, I will. I'm very tempted to claim a mental health exemption.

If you are challenged about not wearing a mask, I would just politely explain that “there is a good reason why I’m not wearing one”. It’s highly unlikely that response will be met with any further enquiry.

 

[Skymonster]

So what will it take for TSSA to allow people to travel by train again?

A Tory government is unlikely to want to continue having the railway operate and be funded as it is now for too long. If the unions have not reached the point of accepting patronage needs to increase by that time to cover more of the costs, I think there is the potential for some serious industrial relations trouble as well as more franchise holders walking away. The question is which will come first - a social distancing solution the union finds acceptable, or a reduction in crisis funding for the railways.

 

[LowLevel]

Also agreed - and my union is in favour of these ridiculous measures. It strikes me as wishing our jobs away! I’m disappointed in the lack of uptick in passenger numbers this week - it’s little different to how things have been over the last couple of weeks.

I know several people who have said they will be actively avoiding public transport until the requirement to wear masks is dropped. We need to be attracting passengers back, because ultimately our jobs depend on the railway being well used! I drove a train earlier which had more staff than passengers on it. It’s not the first time that has happened in recent weeks, and it’s clearly unsustainable.



If you are challenged about not wearing a mask, I would just politely explain that “there is a good reason why I’m not wearing one”. It’s highly unlikely that response will be met with any further enquiry.

Give it time - our local services have picked up faster than the ICs (annoyingly given the rolling stock disparity, there being little spare for strengthening on the local side!). It was already reckoned that the London side would take longer to recover with little in the way of long distance leisure occurring and many white collar commuter types still home working.

It's not busy by any stretch but we have trains that have getting on for 50 on at once now, which is nearly at the 'optimal' max for a 3 car 15x formation. I've seen plenty of daytime leisure passengers today.

Now the trickle has started I am sure it will start to build momentum.

It is going to be a slow recovery but from what I am seeing it has started.

Also - despite the very laissez-faire approach to revenue protection I have noted plenty of people still buying tickets and waving them at us as we walk past so the accepted order of paying for travel certainly isn't dead either.

 

[Gadget88]

I'm not sure if it's lawful for them to insist that people with medical conditions or anxiety wear a mask while in the UK; I'd have thought not, but once you cross the border, I'd assume French law would apply (perhaps someone can confirm).

If their T&Cs are at odds with the law, then it could make an interesting legal case on the basis of discrimination but I have no idea what the prospect of success might be.


Not on topic for this thread, what @yorksrob says is true of Northern Rail; let's discuss in a more suitable thread as it's not directly related to face masks (other than indirectly in that the fact that the wearing of masks is likely to result in the abolishment of social distancing on trains, which in turn will presumably result in the message from TOCs changing)

Thanks so I could take legal advice on this? My worry is the face mask rule could last upto a year. I do want to travel like everybody I would like a holiday maybe at the end of the year and don’t want to be forced into wearing a mask.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Keeping on topic, most passengers are wearing masks, but quite a few taking them off when sitting down!

Good to hear, that's what I've been doing too. If, after boarding a train or bus you find there's no one sitting near you, where's the harm in taking your mask off? Only a masochist would be daft enough to keep it on!

 

[Journeyman]

Thanks so I could take legal advice on this? My worry is the face mask rule could last upto a year. I do want to travel like everybody I would like a holiday maybe at the end of the year and don’t want to be forced into wearing a mask.

If it's that much of an issue for you, I don't think you should be looking at going on holiday by train until the mask requirement is lifted.

Until the rules change, I'm only going to use public transport if I absolutely have to, and I'll comply with the rules when I do, but as far as I'm concerned, leisure travel by train is not happening for me for a long time.

 

[43066]

Give it time - our local services have picked up faster than the ICs (annoyingly given the rolling stock disparity, there being little spare for strengthening on the local side!). It was already reckoned that the London side would take longer to recover with little in the way of long distance leisure occurring and many white collar commuter types still home working.

It's not busy by any stretch but we have trains that have getting on for 50 on at once now, which is nearly at the 'optimal' max for a 3 car 15x formation. I've seen plenty of daytime leisure passengers today.

Now the trickle has started I am sure it will start to build momentum.

It is going to be a slow recovery but from what I am seeing it has started.

Also - despite the very laissez-faire approach to revenue protection I have noted plenty of people still buying tickets and waving them at us as we walk past so the accepted order of paying for travel certainly isn't dead either.

Thanks. That all makes total sense, and is reassuring! Just as you say, let’s hope for a steady increase over the coming weeks.

 

[island]

Travellers at London Victoria (NR) are being refused entry to the station this evening by security staff unless wearing a mask. Free disposable masks are being provided. Exemptions are not being entertained.

 

[greyman42]

Travellers at London Victoria (NR) are being refused entry to the station this evening by security staff unless wearing a mask. Free disposable masks are being provided. Exemptions are not being entertained.

I thought you did not have to wear a mask on the concourse/platforms?

 

[MikeWM]

Travellers at London Victoria (NR) are being refused entry to the station this evening by security staff unless wearing a mask. Free disposable masks are being provided. Exemptions are not being entertained.

Illegal and immoral. Can the railways stoop any lower than forcing people with breathing difficulties to make themselves ill?

Unsurprising, though, given that all the messaging has completely ignored the fact there are many people who have legitimate - and legal - reasons for not doing so.

 

[island]

I thought you did not have to wear a mask on the concourse/platforms?

The law is silent on the matter. Of course this forum regularly sees instances of train companies and their staff, agents, and hired goons exceeding their rights.

I am passing on the information I have received from a trusted friend; he was not in a position to enter into a discussion with the person in question.

 

[Huntergreed]

Travellers at London Victoria (NR) are being refused entry to the station this evening by security staff unless wearing a mask. Free disposable masks are being provided. Exemptions are not being entertained.

That’s completely illegal and more than that it’s simply insensitive. The railways have a bad enough name for essentially telling passengers to **** off unless they’re a key worker. They’ve got their work cut out encouraging passengers back on the trains without pulling stunts like this.

I am getting concerned that the railways may not recover for months, if not years, due to both bad publicity and the fact they don’t want anyone back.

Surely whoever was enforcing the mask policy in this situation has been briefed on exceptions and was either knowingly forcing those with breathing difficulties to wear a mask, or they were simply following instructions, meaning the higher up view is no exceptions, which is even more worrying.

 

[island]

I am hopeful that it is “only” a case of poorly trained/briefed staff.

 

[MikeWM]

I am hopeful that it is “only” a case of poorly trained/briefed staff.

But that is quite a sufficient problem in itself, if the railways ever want to recover from their current lamentable state.

A few years back I was (incorrectly) stopped from travelling from Waterloo with a perfectly valid ticket. A fairly minor incident, but it still dented my opinion of the railway for quite some time.

 

[Journeyman]

Sturgeon is due to announce the next easing of lockdown restrictions in Scotland tomorrow. I'm certain she'll make compulsory mask wearing part of the deal.

 

[Huntergreed]

Sturgeon is due to announce the next easing of lockdown restrictions in Scotland tomorrow. I'm certain she'll make compulsory mask wearing part of the deal.

It will be interesting to see if she applies it like England on just public transport, or if she goes for shops as well (she's always said 'in shops or public transport' when discussing them). I think it may be the latter, but whether that's based on evidence or her wanting to appear more safe and different, that's another thing entirely.

 

[Journeyman]

It will be interesting to see if she applies it like England on just public transport, or if she goes for shops as well (she's always said 'in shops or public transport' when discussing them). I think it may be the latter, but whether that's based on evidence or her wanting to appear more safe and different, that's another thing entirely.

Yeah, I think if she thinks she can get away with it, she'll impose it everywhere, and it'll be the price of additional freedoms.

 

[island]

I am getting concerned that the railways may not recover for months, if not years, due to both bad publicity and the fact they don’t want anyone back.

I am in the process of buying my first car, at the age of 36.

 

[Journeyman]

The biggest thing that concerns me about all of this is the complete unwillingness the decision makers have to justify their decisions, and the criteria they're using. How is it decided when these rules will be lifted? What are the targets and timescales?

I've just been blocked by the Edinburgh Airport Instagram account for asking these questions.

 

[GodAtum]

Travellers at London Victoria (NR) are being refused entry to the station this evening by security staff unless wearing a mask. Free disposable masks are being provided. Exemptions are not being entertained.

Please could I have more detail about the incident and I'll email a member of Southern staff who might be able to pass it on the the relevant people?

As an aside, I wore a mask while going past the guards, then took it off when I sat down on the train.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I thought you did not have to wear a mask on the concourse/platforms?

A similar situation at Leeds this evening. As I entered the concourse a jobsworth came up to me and insisted I put on a mask. I pointed out to him that this only applies on trains and he replied that station staff had been told by Network Rail that mask-wearing was now compulsory on stations.

When I told him that I work for Network Rail and no such instruction had been given his face was a picture....well, it would have been if he hadn't been wearing a mask!

 

[bearhugger]

I have been using buses since the start of lockdown as a key worker to get to & from work. Today was the first day loadings were noticebly more on the sevices I normallu use.
I personally don't like wearing masks so have done the bare minimum - putting my snood on just before stepping on and taking off as I'm stepping off. The same will apply when I use the train.

 

[43066]

Travellers at London Victoria (NR) are being refused entry to the station this evening by security staff unless wearing a mask. Free disposable masks are being provided. Exemptions are not being entertained.

Do you have a link to this on Twitter/similar?

That cannot be an official policy. It must be down to a misunderstanding by the staff concerned (who will likely be NR rent-a-thugs rather than TOC staff. Victoria has a large presence of these due to some of the regular “clientele”).

 

[Skymonster]

I thought you did not have to wear a mask on the concourse/platforms?

The legislation is quite clear - masks are only required when boarding and onboard trains.

 

[alex397]

Good to hear, that's what I've been doing too. If, after boarding a train or bus you find there's no one sitting near you, where's the harm in taking your mask off? Only a masochist would be daft enough to keep it on!

According to Ensignbus, police have already fined people for breaking rules in Thurrock, so I’d watch out. You are knowingly breaking the rules, no matter how ridiculous you think they are!

https://twitter.com/ensignbusco/status/1272814170317168642?s=21

“Just to make you all aware, the Police are now actively enforcing the wearing of face coverings on Public Transport with £100 on the spot fines. A passenger was fined this morning for refusing to wear one without good reason & there were also fines given at Chafford Hundred Stn”

The potential harm for taking your mask off is by leaving droplets on the seats or handles, even from just breathing - you don’t have to necessarily have to cough or sneeze.

 

[route101]

I am in the process of buying my first car, at the age of 36.

How is it going? I would not know where to start

 

[Bletchleyite]

How is it going? I would not know where to start

Probably easier than ever, as there are online sales options etc.

A start would be booking some test drives with a dealer and see what you like, though.