Best train manufacturer?

[kilonewton]

comeng

I concur

 

[Vulcan]

However, my only experience of them is their EMU Desiro fleet and as EMUs are nicer than DMUs I may be biased. Perhaps some TPE people can comment on whether their 185s are better than Turbostars?

The 185s seems to sway around on their suspension more, the 170s don't and I think they are quieter inside.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

I think I can guess who Kingfisher200262 will go for


Personally I'd go for Bombardier because of the Turbostars and Electrostars.

If you mean CSR, I don't believe that we could be described by anybody as being "the best ever train manufacturer, past or present", but I do think that we are "good students" and that we are learning fast.

That said, I don't believe that Turbostars and Electrostars are the best trains ever, built by the best ever manufacturer, and I don't think ABB / AdTranz / Bombardier believe that either.

The current theme in the industry is all about how to do more with less. If you consider that Britain was emerging after the second world war, rebuilding the country with virtually no money, what was achieved by BR under the modernisation plan, a state owned railway, working in partnership with the private sector to construct thousands of diesel locomotives, Mk I coaches and first generation DMUs was simply amazing and probably eclipses what is currently going on in China with their thousands of CRH high speed trains and metro cars.

So, best ever manufacturer, not sure. Best ever achievement - rebuilding Britain's railways post WW2.

 

[WatcherZero]

But wouldnt that be an argument that we made the mistake of still building and improving steam in the 30's while apart from a few trial electrifications we got left behind by continental europe even before the war.

 

[boing_uk]

But dont forget that pre-war, the electrical supply grid was more than likely just not capable of supplying the energy requirements for any more rail electrification. There was no national grid, few high voltage long distance transmission lines and very little standardisation.

It wasnt until the wholesale nationalisation of the post-war period that any kind of standardisation became possible.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

But dont forget..... the electrical supply grid was more than likely just not capable of supplying the energy requirements for any more rail electrification. There was..... very little standardisation.

Much like now then really!
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But wouldnt that be an argument that we made the mistake of still building and improving steam in the 30's while apart from a few trial electrifications we got left behind by continental europe even before the war.

Fair comment.

 

[lm321412]

The 185s seems to sway around on their suspension more, the 170s don't and I think they are quieter inside.

Really?

I have always thought the 185s are quieter, especially when in "Eco Mode"
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For me it has to be BREL. They have designed some of the best and most reliable units around (for example the Class 321).

The worst has to be Alstrom. The 175s,180s,458s,460s have been far from perfect.

 

[christopher]

BREL and Hitachi

 

[MCR247]

Really?

The worst has to be Alstrom. The 175s,180s,458s,460s have been far from perfect.

But then Alstom learnt from them and gave us the beautiful 390s!

 

[starrymarkb]

But then Alstom learnt from them and gave us the beautiful 390s!

Some of the problems were down to Alstom seeing the 390s as the prestige project and ignoring problems with with more mundane units.

 

[ert47]

Just wondering, could this topic be turned into a poll?

 

[generalvegitable]

Just wondering, could this topic be turned into a poll?

thats a good idea

 

[TGV]

Alstom/GEC Alsthom

 

[Goldfish62]

Alstom - because the TGV family of trains is an all-time classic and they also make some pretty fantastic urban and suburban trains which I've travelled on in Europe. Siemens get a black mark from me because the ICEs have never been reliable.

 

[charlesn132]

Just wondering, could this topic be turned into a poll?

Good idea...

 

[Pumbaa]

It depends - you could throw a hat in the bullring and ask instead who would you least like to build you a train? Using current manufacturers as a guide only, I think Met Cam/BREL would put my question out of context... In reverse order!

Siemens - not made a truly awful train so far. They have problems granted, they're too fat, too heavy on juice of all kinds, feel as welcoming as Belmarsh and simply cannot grasp the concept of temperature control. Made some unreliable ICEs, made some rather reliable Desiros (with exception of 350/2, but I suspect thats more down to LMs shoddy maintenance regime) and generally are innovative (Desiro City, 380 etc)

CSR - ideas in the right place, just haven't been given a chance to put their money where their mouth is.

Alstom - shocking reliability from what could have been the backbone of future orders. Great design bodyshell for all units, shame the kit under the floor came from Argos. Did themselves proud with 390 at expense of Coradia family.

Hitachi - bland and lifeless if perfectly functional, although they don't have great reliability when travelling at under 125. Something to work on.

Bombardier - proving even now that they still can't build trains at Derby. Generally useless bits of equipment, built to a nasty price and it shows. Best PIS going but then it'll need to be when it breaks down at the end of the platform.

AnsaldoBreda - TF useless.

 

[The_Stig]

Alstom - shocking reliability from what could have been the backbone of future orders. Great design bodyshell for all units, shame the kit under the floor came from Argos. Did themselves proud with 390 at expense of Coradia family.

Had me giggling no end.

If only it wasn't true.:cry:

 

[RobShipway]

CSR - ideas in the right place, just haven't been given a chance to put their money where their mouth is.


Would they setup a factory here if they had a big enough order though to prove themselves?

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Anything EE!! And I have to agree with the comments about the 156s, cracking units.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

CSR - ideas in the right place, just haven't been given a chance to put their money where their mouth is.


Would they setup a factory here if they had a big enough order though to prove themselves?

In a word, yes.

CSR has been very open about its policy to localise final assembly, for many reasons, including the fact that it makes no sense to ship the large lumps of the trains (e.g. engines, transmissions, final drives) that will be procured in Europe to China, to then ship them back again.

CSR will locate its final assembly facility adjacent to a deep sea port, and a mainline railway connection. A small number of sites have been identified and are under review. To a certain extent, the choice of site will depend upon where the first large order comes from.

 

[thefab444]

Alstom - shocking reliability from what could have been the backbone of future orders.

Indeed, I expect that had the 458s been acceptable (and lets face it, they were anything but in the first 5 years of "service", although they appear to be settling down now), SWT would have placed a much large order to replace the Slamdoor units instead of going for Siemens units.

 

[Pumbaa]

Indeed, I expect that had the 458s been acceptable (and lets face it, they were anything but in the first 5 years of "service", although they appear to be settling down now), SWT would have placed a much large order to replace the Slamdoor units instead of going for Siemens units.

458s currently outdoing the 350s, 444s and 360s in reliability tables. Their sisters on SWT are generally better though. 334s still generally rubbish though floating around the 30k mark I think for MAA.

 

[TDK]

Pre-privitisation 1980s / 1990s :

BREL were excellent with EMUs up to the 320
However their attempt at DMUs were laughable, especially the 158

The Metrocammell 156 has to be the best DMU
When they were knew they were capable of going faster than 158s!
I travelled on a pair of 156s between Girvan (45 minutes late) and Glasgow (15 minutes late), passed Lochside (now Lochwinnoch) at 92mph, the driver overheated the brakes on slowing for Paisley and overshot the platform

They are not capable of going faster than 158's, 158's are geared for 90 a 156 for 75mph, 158's are good for 110 and will stop from that speed as well, how do you know the 156's were doing 92?
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Bachmann

 

[CarterUSM]

They are not capable of going faster than 158's, 158's are geared for 90 a 156 for 75mph, 158's are good for 110 and will stop from that speed as well, how do you know the 156's were doing 92?
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Bachmann

Been on a 156 many moons ago doing 84/85 mph but the engines were screaming! I had no idea the 158's could reach such a speed, but it obviously makes sense. Remember watching the speedo on a 318 hit the 110 mark too, i'm embarrassed to say I found it incredibly exciting at the time. What, if any, dangers are there to a unit exceeding it's 'official' top speed, not taking into account the line speed or any restrictions. I mean with regards to it's engines/motors and the like?

 

[The_Stig]

Been on a 156 many moons ago doing 84/85 mph but the engines were screaming! I had no idea the 158's could reach such a speed, but it obviously makes sense. Remember watching the speedo on a 318 hit the 110 mark too, i'm embarrassed to say I found it incredibly exciting at the time. What, if any, dangers are there to a unit exceeding it's 'official' top speed, not taking into account the line speed or any restrictions. I mean with regards to it's engines/motors and the like?

I would assume there are not the required components in place for safe stopping when emergency brake applications are applied. The 320's for example have been capable of exceeding their 75mph running speed since they were constructed but have not been allowed to do so because they did not have yaw dampers fitted. The yaw dampers keep the coach steady during such braking.
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I would assume there are not the required components in place for safe stopping when emergency brake applications are applied. The 320's for example have been capable of exceeding their 75mph running speed since they were constructed but have not been allowed to do so because they did not have yaw dampers fitted. The yaw dampers keep the coach steady during such braking.

Oh and cornering!

 

[sprinterguy]

Metro-Cammell (Class 156s and the Tyne & Wear Metrocars) and English Electric

 

[GospelOak117]

Pressed Steel Their three classes built, the 117s, 121's and 303's all lived past 40

 

[222666]

Yes for nostalgia reasons I like 117 but possibly due to state of rural lines back then, the "clackety clack" sound, the swaying over points etc. 50, 60, 75mph seemed quite exciting in these for some reason!

Otherwise 222, 170, 390, 442. For the modern comfort mostly.

 

[Goldfish62]

Alstom - shocking reliability from what could have been the backbone of future orders. Great design bodyshell for all units, shame the kit under the floor came from Argos.

AnsaldoBreda - TF useless.

Very funny - quite agree re AnsaldoBreda - world's worst train manufacturer?

Bit unfair re Alstom equipment, though - the Onyx traction equipment fitted to Junipers, 1996 LU stock and most TGVs is fantastically reliable. I think I'm right in saying the 1996 stock has never had a single traction motor failure.

Why-oh-why did Alstom fit Paris RER bogies to the Junipers?! Totally unsuited to the vagaries of Southern trackwork, as well as the spirited braking, judging by the wheelflats.

 

[Pumbaa]

Bit unfair re Alstom equipment, though - the Onyx traction equipment fitted to Junipers, 1996 LU stock and most TGVs is fantastically reliable. I think I'm right in saying the 1996 stock has never had a single traction motor failure.

Onyx is the only decent thing under the floor, reliable yes and very good at what it does, so much so that Bombardier also used it on 220/221. Something else also got upgraded to run with it? 357 I think?