Consett to Newcastle?

[Chris NS]

So the MP for North West Durham is pushing for reinstating the line to Consett, joining the Tyne Valley Line at Metrocentre.

I've thought about this before; I'm sceptical a strong case can be made for this, but what are your thoughts?

 

[MotCO]

This was raised at Prime Minister's Questions today. The PM responded by suggesting it could be linked into the Tyne & Wear Metro; is this possible / a good idea?

 

[Chris NS]

This is the latest maps I can find of Nexus's wish list. Ashington Line is on it, as are a few others, but Consett is not:

Metro expansion: How new map could look | ITV News

Transport chiefs have revealed how the Metro map could look after agreeing a £1bn upgrade and expansion plan | ITV News Tyne Tees

www.itv.com

Looks like it'll be an uphill struggle to get this done ahead of projects such as Leamside Line reinstatement.

 

[DarloRich]

This was raised at Prime Minister's Questions today. The PM responded by suggesting it could be linked into the Tyne & Wear Metro; is this possible / a good idea?

Where are they going to run the extension from? The metro doesn't go to the metro centre!

The old line ran from Jarrow.

This is the latest maps I can find of Nexus's wish list. Ashington Line is on it, as are a few others, but Consett is not:

that is from 2016!

 

[Purple Orange]

So the MP for North West Durham is pushing for reinstating the line to Consett, joining the Tyne Valley Line at Metrocentre.

I've thought about this before; I'm sceptical a strong case can be made for this, but what are your thoughts?

But doesn’t this all fit with the Tories election pledges to reconnect small towns with nearby cities?

 

[Chris NS]

Where are they going to run the extension from? The metro doesn't go to the metro centre!

The old line ran from Jarrow.

I assume the proposal currently being mooted is re-building the railway alongide what is currently the Deerness Valley Walk. That would indeed join a mile west of the metrocentre.

I think BoJo is mixing up two different transport schemes. Nexus does propose rail improvements beyond the Tyne and Wear Metro, but I don't think anyone's seriously proposing sending Metro trains that way.

that is from 2016!

Like I said, it's the most recent one I can find. I did see a pretty comprehensive document of schemes once, including the recently-approved improvements on the South Shields branch, but I can't for like of me remember where I found that.

 

[DH1Commuter]

DarloRich - metro doesn't go to Metrocentre yet, but Nexus raise it as a possibility every so often. Even if they did, I can't see a business case for Consett stacking up at present, as it is a decent size but is relatively remote from any operational railway and the terrain from Consett to Tyneside is difficult, at best, with only small place en route.

IF the Tories wanted to hold Durham NW at the next election then:
1) they need to get shovels into the ground with urgency, as vague noises will not hold natural Labour territory for them - see also Northumberland Line, which needs to be seen to be progressing at the least, but ideally operational by 2024.
2) they would be better-served by linking Consett to the rail network via Stanley (21k population), Pelton (8k) and Annfield Plain (8k), following the closed route to Chester-Le-Street (with new interchange for ECML) and Sunderland.I very much doubt even this will happen.

They'd be better off throwing money at the Leamside, which could serve Washington, East Gateshead, Belmont and a Ferryhill Parkway station that would give them a shot at holding Sedgefield and attacking City of Durham seats (and which could be a genuinely useful line and take a lot of cars off the A1 and A194.

 

[Chris NS]

Re: Consett - Newcastle via Stanley: that would almost certainly require four-tracking o fthe ECML north of the join at Birtley. Luckily, Nexus has plans for that on a different scheme.

For both options, however (especially the Stanley route), there is an additional complication: they are the two branches of the National Cycle Network. Cyclists are by far the bottom of the pile and normally any objections would be brushed aside, but here both routes are VERY popular with long-distance cyclists.

You'd almost certainly have to build a brand new route to replace the one displaced by the returning railway. That would be far from straightforward.

 

[Bald Rick]

If it’s not been submitted to DfT in the ‘Restoring your railway’ initiative, it’s not happening.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Is there not a second round of bidding in June (and a third round in November)? MP in question said that he had 'registered his interest' with the DfT. The Annfield Plain / ECML route would at least have the advantage of serving Beamish Museum, a major honeypot attraction.

 

[Kingspanner]

Both routes to Consett are ferociously graded as anyone who has ridden the magnificent cycle paths on them can testify. On the other hand both are fairly complete with no major structures to reinstate. The Stanley route might have houses on it at Leadgate and the connection at the Metrocentre might be under few roads and redevelopment now.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

If it’s not been submitted to DfT in the ‘Restoring your railway’ initiative, it’s not happening.

well an expression of interest has been made and is likely to be submitted in the June 2020 bidding round

 

[30907]

Of the two options, Swalwell to Shotley Bridge is more direct and looks the easier to reinstate, with only about 500m of urbanisation at Swalwell Bank Foot to get through, whereas the route via Beamish tangles with main roads (and Annfield Plain as well as Leadgate).
On the other hand, the only substantial settlement uSwalwelalong the valley is Rowlands Gill, which I remember (from 30 years ago, admittedly) as a very spread-out community. A station at IKEA might be worth it, though.

 

[markindurham]

The Deerness Valley line is the one that goes through Lanchester and Langley Park, joining the ECML at Baxter Wood, just north of Relly Mill/Stone Bridge. It would be a better prospect for Consett to Durham commuting, and would probably be the easiest rail link to Consett to be reinstated, but AFAIK the one being proposed would indeed be the Derwent Valley route, through Ebchester and Rowlands Gill to Swalwell. It's mostly intact between Consett and Rowlands Gill, but from there would be more of a costly exercise to rebuild, as above. The Beamish route,again as above, would cost more for bridges etc; however as well as reconnecting to the ECML near Tyne Yard could also head to Washington and the proposed Metro extension there.

 

[Megafuss]

So the MP for North West Durham is pushing for reinstating the line to Consett, joining the Tyne Valley Line at Metrocentre.

I've thought about this before; I'm sceptical a strong case can be made for this, but what are your thoughts?

Now I love a new line opening. But on balance I think its a ludicrous idea. To it's credit, Gateshead Council has worked wonders with the old railway line and developed to a beautiful walking/cycle track with plenty of wild life in the surrounding area.

The other route via Stanley and Beamish would probably more desirable given you have another major town and a major visitor attraction. But it's a stretch.

Plus it really isn't needed. In "normal" circumstances, Consett and the places along the old line have 4 high spec buses an hour to Metrocentre and Newcastle with an additional 3 buses an hour from Consett to Newcastle via Sunniside

 

[MoleStation]

Right. There was 2 lines from Newcastle to Consett and sometimed timetabled to acted like a loop service. Which closed from the 30s to the 50s. The last bit closed in the 80s and quickly was roaded over. Then the houses crept closer to those alignments as did even more roads. Even just during the last few years the remaining bridge was eventually brought down in Leadgate.
And then this mp appears and says, 'Lets rebuild the line'. And wastes time in The House by stating the case.
Until that mp can convince a few thousand homeowners and a few more thousand more car drivers to give there houses/cars up then, what a cretin if he thinks that thus is an actual plan.
rant rant

 

[tbtc]

It's not the best scheme in the UK, it's not even the best scheme around Newcastle (Ashington gets my vote) but without commenting on the practicalities of the terrain/ costs etc, it at least looks like a reasonable commuter distance, connecting a post-industrial town to the nearest big city, frequent enough commercial bus service (to demonstrate existing demand) etc so it looks a much better plan on paper than the kind of "Let's Reconnect Some Little Village In North Yorkshire/ Dartmoor/ Lake District Because It Might Be Useful For Diversions On A Couple Of Weekends A Year" scheme that often seems to be discussed on here.

I'd give it a qualified thumbs-up.

 

[A0]

Time for Altnabraec's criteria

• Population of 10,000+
• 60 minutes (75 at a push) journey time of a major employment centre.
• Extant or mainly unobstructed trackbed
• Ability to extend an existing service so more terminal capacity is not required.
• Regeneration Potential of a deprived area

Population over 10k - yep. Consett is 25,000.

60 mins to major employment centre - yep. Newcastle and Gateshead are about 12 miles away.

Unobstructed trackbed - not sure, will let others comment.

Ability to extend existing service - again not sure.

Regeneration of deprived area - yes, definitely.

 

[HSTEd]

As far as I can tell from aerial photography and the Rail Map website.... pretty much every usable route has been split in several locations.

Doesn't look good from a reopening perspective.

 

[geordieblue]

As far as I can tell from aerial photography and the Rail Map website.... pretty much every usable route has been split in several locations.

You could get to Leadgate, basically the outskirts of Consett, without too much difficulty (bit of demolition in Annfield Plain but not totalling more than £1-2m; houses aren't expensive in North West Durham), potentially acting as a Consett Parkway. To get into Consett town centre you'd need to replace the road, though, which would be an expensive job. I can't see a 'full' reopening to the town centre happening but a partial one to a Consett Parkway has a decent chance of going ahead imo.

Ability to extend existing service - again not sure.

If you come from the Chester-Le-Street area, you'd struggle; Northern don't operate on that section of the ECML and I can't see any other operator being touted to serve the station.
If you came from the north near Metrocentre there is potential to extend various Middlesbrough / Morpeth services IIRC but that route has far fewer intermediate towns (only Rowlands Gill is of any importance) and is therefore much less likely to get built (compared to the Chester-Le-Street route with Annfield Plain, Stanley, and the huge visitor attraction of Beamish all en route).

 

[NorthOxonian]

You could get to Leadgate, basically the outskirts of Consett, without too much difficulty (bit of demolition in Annfield Plain but not totalling more than £1-2m; houses aren't expensive in North West Durham), potentially acting as a Consett Parkway. To get into Consett town centre you'd need to replace the road, though, which would be an expensive job. I can't see a 'full' reopening to the town centre happening but a partial one to a Consett Parkway has a decent chance of going ahead imo.


If you come from the Chester-Le-Street area, you'd struggle; Northern don't operate on that section of the ECML and I can't see any other operator being touted to serve the station.
If you came from the north near Metrocentre there is potential to extend various Middlesbrough / Morpeth services IIRC but that route has far fewer intermediate towns (only Rowlands Gill is of any importance) and is therefore much less likely to get built (compared to the Chester-Le-Street route with Annfield Plain, Stanley, and the huge visitor attraction of Beamish all en route).

While the Derwent Valley route does only really take in Rowlands Gill, the demographics there are much more commuter-focused than Stanley or Annfield Plain. The lower part of the village is full of affluent workers in Newcastle who could easily be tempted onto the train, and there are several similar communities in the area (like Burnopfield). While a rail line might regenerate Annfield Plain and Stanley, I'd suspect the level of custom would actually be pretty similar, despite the much higher population.

The main problem that you have is the alignment is now a very popular country park and the path is used heavily for leisure. I've heard that they would build a new path/cycleway parallel to the railway, which is important to reduce local objections.

 

[greyman42]

The old line ran from Jarrow.

Do you know roughly what route it took?

 

[FQTV]

If you come from the Chester-Le-Street area, you'd struggle; Northern don't operate on that section of the ECML and I can't see any other operator being touted to serve the station.
If you came from the north near Metrocentre there is potential to extend various Middlesbrough / Morpeth services IIRC but that route has far fewer intermediate towns (only Rowlands Gill is of any importance) and is therefore much less likely to get built (compared to the Chester-Le-Street route with Annfield Plain, Stanley, and the huge visitor attraction of Beamish all en route).

Northern does actually operate a limited rush hour service on the ECML between Darlington and Newcastle (with various origins and destinations).

The bigger issue with the Stanley route is that the original lines joined the ECML North of Chester-le-Street, missing out the town's station.

Unless a new alignment was built swinging south over Waldridge Fell (which is, in part, a Site of Special Scientific Interest) to then curve North again to join the ECML South of Chester-le-Street Station, the route wouldn't serve Chester at all.

Even if it did, you're feeding into the twin track bottle neck of Chester-le-Street viaduct, so it'd be yet another North East project that wouldn't work without Leamside and/or a Sunderland ECML connection to disperse current and proposed mainline traffic.

Consett > Shotley Bridge Hospital > Rowlands Gill > Swalwell > Metro Centre > Newcastle would, I'd have thought, have the better case.

Consett > Shotley Bridge Hospital > Rowlands Gill > Swalwell > Blaydon > Scotswood > Newcastle would be the alternative, of course, if the Scotswood/Blaydon loop was progressed, but that would require a triangular junction at Swalwell that would involve some substantial demolition, I suspect.

 

[DarloRich]

Do you know roughly what route it took?

Best I can do remotely is http://www.railmaponline.com/

You have two options:

Derwent Valley Railway via Rowlands Gill and Shotlrey Bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derwent_Valley_Railway_(County_Durham) )

or

Stanhope & Tyne Railway via Anfield Plain and Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanhope_and_Tyne_Railway)

Both lost routes their passenger services in the 1950's. (http://disused-stations.org.uk/c/consett/index.shtml )

 

[geordieblue]

Northern does actually operate a limited rush hour service on the ECML between Darlington and Newcastle (with various origins and destinations).

Fair point, although I'm not sure the good people of Consett would particularly appreciate a rush hour only service!

 

[MoleStation]

The Derwent Valley route is completely built over from Swalwell (the current terminus of the Derwent Valley walk) to what was and only really could be the connection to the Metro Centre/Newcastle.
Rowlands Gill station area is housing. Not sure about further up the valley until Blackhill where houses are snuggly up against the single track embankment.
The other route, the old Stanhope and Tyne diversion, has houses encroaching, and bypasses built on the alignment in numerous areas, including the old Consett station site. And like I said earlier, a road bridge was finally demolished a couple of years ago between Leadgate and Consett.
I would LOVE to see trains returning to Consett, but it was made sure in the 80s that this wouldn't happen, so that politician is talking out of his bot and wasting everyone's time.
It really is a pity but unless a heck of a lot of people are dispersed and compensated, and a rather convoluted and extremely expensive route could actually be decided upon (don't forget it's a rise of 700ft in 14miles), especially to make the train trip between Consett and Newcastle faster than cars, well, it ain't ever gonna happen.
Dammit!

 

[Anvil1984]

Northern does actually operate a limited rush hour service on the ECML between Darlington and Newcastle (with various origins and destinations).

Bit of an exaggeration to call it a rush hour service. They run 3 trains in one direction arriving into Newcastle between 0700 - 0900 with nothing southbound. Nothing in the afternoon "rush hour" and the only other service is southbound at 2221.

 

[FQTV]

Bit of an exaggeration to call it a rush hour service. They run 3 trains in one direction arriving into Newcastle between 0700 - 0900 with nothing southbound. Nothing in the afternoon "rush hour" and the only other service is southbound at 2221.

It was not described as a ‘rush hour service’; it was described as a ‘limited rush hour service’, which is precisely what it is.

The post was in response to one that said that ‘Northern don’t operate on that section of the ECML.’

They do, and it’s a limited service, during a rush hour period.

 

[Anvil1984]

As someone who works there I know what we operate and all I said was it was a bit exaggeration especially when it only operates in one direction. Surely if the people of Consett one day in the future somehow had a rush hour service to Darlington in the morning theyd want a way to get back in the evening

 

[HSTEd]

Given the existing routes are both partially obstructed..... can I suggest the utmost heresy of a clean-sheet railway?