Driving tips that you’ve picked up along the way (for road vehicles).

[Bobdogs]

Mods note - Split from this thread:

Vehicle discussion. The SUV vs standard types of car.

Moderator note - Split from this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/potential-rebuilding-of-industries-in-the-uk-post-covid-19-epidemic.204212/ You would expect a lot to be - not all by any means. Just as you would expect a lot of Renaults in France and a lot of Fiats in Italy...

www.railforums.co.uk

What is forgotten at this time of year is the menace of tall SUVs with the blue headlights, in the dark, lashing down with rain, the lights dazzling off the road surface on single carriageways.
Not helped by those drivers of questionable intelligence who think that our eyesight is so poor that they have to supplement their blue lights with fog lights.
Despite advancing years, I find my halogen lights perfectly adequate and question why individuals need to light up their vehicles so much.
Would I be wrong to assume that these are the same idiots who use rear fog lights even though they can see the vehicle in front?

 

[MotCO]

Would I be wrong to assume that these are the same idiots who use rear fog lights even though they can see the vehicle in front?

And probably forget that they can use their yellow flashing lights when turning.

 

[corfield]

Despite being in fog such that I could barely seen beyond the bonnet, I’ve never actually found fog lights to be any use.

To be fair to the people (of whom there are a lot) who put them on when regular lights are still perfectly visible - they are probably trying to get some value for money

Not used “blue” headlights - are they better?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rear fogs, when it's actually foggy, mean it's easier to see the vehicle in front. Like another subject under heavy discussion elsewhere at the moment, they exist primarily for altruistic purposes - to aid other drivers - and should be used with consideration to that.

Front fogs are lower down so they light the road rather than the cloud of fog.

Both are useful if used appropriately.

 

[corfield]

Except regular rear lights are perfectly visible at working distance and rear fogs are distractingly bright/blinding. I’ve never felt I didn’t have more than sufficient situational awareness of someone else just based on their normal rear lights.

I suspect both front and rear fogs are a hangover from decades ago when normal lights weren’t a patch on what they are now. They seem redundant now.

I’m sure there is fog out there where they could add value but in nearly 30 years of driving 15k a year all over the UK and world, I’ve personally very rarely encountered it.

In terms of consideration to others - my driving instructor taught me to only indicate when I had assessed the situation and put myself in each other drivers position and whether my signal would be of value. If it wasn’t to anyone, then probably don’t indicate. The purpose was to ingrain a constant assessment of other drivers, what they were doing and what they would see/expect of me. That thinking has served me very well.

 

[AM9]

Except regular rear lights are perfectly visible at working distance and rear fogs are distractingly bright/blinding. I’ve never felt I didn’t have more than sufficient situational awareness of someone else just based on their normal rear lights.

I suspect both front and rear fogs are a hangover from decades ago when normal lights weren’t a patch on what they are now. They seem redundant now. ...

Until LEDs were the default lumiaire types on vehicles, rear non-high intensity red lights were 5 or 6W filaments and not particulalrly bright, so it would be difficult for following drivers to see them in thick forg unless very close. My car is 2007 and the high-level lamp is the only LED type on the rear, so there must be a high probability of following a car with lower brightness lamps.

... In terms of consideration to others - my driving instructor taught me to only indicate when I had assessed the situation and put myself in each other drivers position and whether my signal would be of value. If it wasn’t to anyone, then probably don’t indicate. The purpose was to ingrain a constant assessment of other drivers, what they were doing and what they would see/expect of me. That thinking has served me very well.

That's all very well aslong as you have seen every other vehicle, not just assumed that you have. There's no harm in letting other drivers know your intentions, even if you have decuided that they don't have a need to know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In terms of consideration to others - my driving instructor taught me to only indicate when I had assessed the situation and put myself in each other drivers position and whether my signal would be of value. If it wasn’t to anyone, then probably don’t indicate. The purpose was to ingrain a constant assessment of other drivers, what they were doing and what they would see/expect of me. That thinking has served me very well.

I was taught that, but I strongly disagree with it and so ignored it. You can't see everything or everyone, and so it's quite possible there will be someone you can't see who would benefit from your signal, therefore always signal, is my take. The only thing you should consider is whether it's possible your signal could mislead anyone, and if it could be careful about what the implications could be, again to a vehicle, pedestrian or cyclist you've maybe not seen or considered relevant at that point.

I like that method of thinking generally, but it's also important to consider that there might be a road user you can't see, e.g. at a hidden exit.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Front fogs are useful on dark rural roads, even if it isn't foggy, as they highlight immediately in front of the car, especially the near side, in a way you don't get with the full beams on. But I knock them off along with the full beam when a car is coming the other way.

Rear fogs? Great in heavy rain too, better to beseen than not seen. The only real issue with rear fogs is that they disguise brake lights, so I'm cautious using them in stop-start traffic.

my driving instructor taught me to only indicate when I had assessed the situation and put myself in each other drivers position and whether my signal would be of value. If it wasn’t to anyone, then probably don’t indicate.

It's a theory I heard too, but not one I agree with. Even if I'm 99.9% certain there's nothing there, there might be, and it's not like indicates are rationed.

 

[Cowley]

A new thread for all your driving knowledge needs...

I’m sure that there’s lots of things that people have learned while out on the road. So here’s an opportunity to tell us all about them...
(I’m hoping that I won’t have to split this into yet another thread. Don’t let me down here guys!)

 

[Lucan]

my driving instructor taught me to only indicate when I had assessed the situation and put myself in each other drivers position and whether my signal would be of value. If it wasn’t to anyone, then probably don’t indicate.

I indicate and put myself in other driver's positions. OTOH I see drivers who don't indicate and don't put themselves in others' positions. In fact the overall impression I have is that not indicating goes hand-in-hand with not considering other traffic - being taught not to indicate does, IMHO, itself carries an implication that others don't matter. You are acting like you are the only one on the road.

What is the saving of not indicating? 0.001 pence worth of electricity, or what? Even if you think there is no-one to indicate to, there could always be someone you have not seen, especially in modern cars with thick anti-roll pillars restricting outward vision. And there might always be a pedestrian who runs out of a corner shop and across the side-road you are turning into, because from within the shop he saw you were not indicating a turn.

And what do I do when I see one of these non-indicating jokers facing away from me but stationary in the middle of the road (it happens often)? Maybe they think it is obvious that they are waiting to turn right. But what if I am passing them on the inside and they change their mind and shoot straight forward? Will I then be accused of overtaking on the inside?

 

[corfield]

Sigh. Why are there so many people just itching to try and shoot things down in a display of self-righteousness?

The point is you do learn to get that assessment right, and “doing it but indicating anyway” doesn’t ingrain it in you. As I said - “probably” don’t indicate - if there is any doubt you do. In busy urban situations clearly that is likely to be the norm.
It is an incredibly good way to drive as you don’t really turn it off so situational awareness is high at all times. Surprisingly it doesn’t seem very fatiguing - indeed I find journeys fly by as I’m concentrating on analysing each stretch bit by bit and before you know it you’ve done it.

I’ve tried fog lights on various cars in all sorts of conditions and find them no use. I think brightness wise of older cars I’m referring to 1980s and before. I spent several years driving through the fens and around Beverley - that’s the worst fog I’ve seen, and could comfortably see cars in front off their normal lights. Even then any fog light users I found distracting.

I agree fog lights make distinguishing brake lights harder - which arguably makes them less safe. I’ve been in blizzards with general visibility less than a car length in front of the bonnet and literally crawling forward (not wanting to stop and be drifted against! this being remote areas of the US) and still regular lights of the one in front were quite discernable. I just wonder what would make them not and yet still actually be able to move. Indeed I recall using the side view once to drive by as I could see the shoulder, but not beyond the bonnet. Even then I knew when I was coming up behind someone.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Most bus lanes are only part-time, with the hours of operation clearly marked by regular signposts... however most drivers seem blissfully unaware of this, and will pootle along in the right hand lane at 25mph in the middle of the day with the massive tailback trailing in their wake!

I've found that by actually paying attention to road markings and signposts, you can use the information gained to allow a more efficient use of space and a calmer experience than would otherwise be possible.

 

[corfield]

“IMHO, itself carries an implication that others don't matter. You are acting like you are the only one on the road.”

That is a daft statement - there is no such implication or acting like that as you are expressly trying to see the world from their eyes and trying to ensure you give them what they need, without giving them something they don’t. That judgement is yours, but that’s the best you can do bar invention of comms/discovery of telepathy.

The danger of “just indicate” is worse IMHO as you assume you can and should do that manoeuvre without consideration of other road users - that is where you think you are the only one on the road. The point my instructor made was that many people indicate as part of an automatic reflex, and thus never really think about the manoeuvre or others, and the human factors of complacency and laziness mean that indication often then doesn’t start until after the manoeuvre has, or is felt to trump rights of way and markings.

As part of this we did a lot of “talking through the driving”, and which I still do a bit albeit not with passengers!

 

[corfield]

Most bus lanes are only part-time, with the hours of operation clearly marked by regular signposts... however most drivers seem blissfully unaware of this, and will pootle along in the right hand lane at 25mph in the middle of the day with the massive tailback trailing in their wake!

I've found that by actually paying attention to road markings and signposts, you can use the information gained to allow a more efficient use of space and a calmer experience than would otherwise be possible.

That sounds like undertaking

Although I recall it has been set as a precedent in Court that you can proceed upto the legal limit if the lane in front of you is clear. Which thus permits some limited undertaking - effectively what happens in congestion on multi-lane roads. But the Court case as described to me was a more obvious undertake of a slow moving vehicle.

Something the US has got right, along with right turn on red (it would be left in this country!).

 

[Cowley]

I've found that by actually paying attention to road markings and signposts, you can use the information gained to allow a more efficient use of space and a calmer experience than would otherwise be possible.

This could definitely be in ‘Top Tips’ in Viz.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That sounds like undertaking

Although I recall it has been set as a precedent in Court that you can proceed upto the legal limit if the lane in front of you is clear. Which thus permits some limited undertaking - effectively what happens in congestion on multi-lane roads. But the Court case as described to me was a more obvious undertake of a slow moving vehicle.

Something the US has got right, along with right turn on red (it would be left in this country!).

No it doesn't, it describes a common occurrence that often leads to other road users undertaking!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The point my instructor made was that many people indicate as part of an automatic reflex, and thus never really think about the manoeuvre or others

Perhaps that's true, but with a reflex indication you get advance warning that someone is about to do something stupid. If someone's indicating to move into your lane you can make space for them, even if they've not seen you. If they don't indicate because they've not seen you and therefore don't think they need to indicate, well, you can't.

 

[corfield]

?? If as you say someone is tootling in the outer lane and you realise the bus lane isnt restricted at that time so can use it to get a calmer/efficient drive - the implication is using it to undertake. That’s how I read it anyway. Apologies if wrong.

 

[corfield]

Perhaps that's true, but with a reflex indication you get advance warning that someone is about to do something stupid. If someone's indicating to move into your lane you can make space for them, even if they've not seen you. If they don't indicate because they've not seen you and therefore don't think they need to indicate, well, you can't.

If you drive as I do - realising someone is coming into your lane, is ahead of when they indicate because their vehicle movement and location will be leading up to that even if they don’t indicate until they’ve made a final decision. You can spot someone in the outside or middle lane planning to come off say at the next exit miles beforehand if you’ve been near them and seen how they drive when happily going ahead vs when they start thinking about the best time to move right and seeing signs etc.

Again as I was taught “the positioning of the vehicle is the primary signal of intent” (signal being meant here in the implicit sense - not that you should use that over indicators).

Pulling into someone else having not seen them is just appalling driving full stop regardless of whether you decided to indicate. Apart from a left hand drive landrover (military) defender I had (only front cab windows), I’ve never been in a vehicle where windows prevented me doing a direct vision check in addition to mirrors. That vehicle was a nightmare, several times I had to climb into the passenger seat just to see on roundabouts, wait for a big enough gap to then climb back and go! Needless to say I had that vehicle removed from our fleet ASAP.

A direct visual check is something else that was drummed into me by my instructor - and I keenly remember the one time in 2006 I didn’t do this (almost by choice as it was 3am on the M62 and had seen no lights even for miles until came up behind a lorry and needed to pull out) and as I did suddenly there was some subaru estate that had come up at 150mph+ and I’d thus missed in my mirror scans. Ironically I was indicating as I felt the lorry driver would benefit from knowing I was going round him and not plowing in the back given one or both of us could be tired).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Despite being in fog such that I could barely seen beyond the bonnet, I’ve never actually found fog lights to be any use.

To be fair to the people (of whom there are a lot) who put them on when regular lights are still perfectly visible - they are probably trying to get some value for money

Always been surprised with the number of folk who don't bother with even regular lights in misty/foggy conditions. Invariably when driving a dark-coloured vehicle.

 

[Domh245]

Always been surprised with the number of folk who don't bother with even regular lights in misty/foggy conditions. Invariably when driving a dark-coloured vehicle.

I suspect that in no small part this is because of the advent of both (front) DRLs and digital instrument clusters, they simply don't realise that they aren't switched on (although I suspect there's a few negligent people who don't realise they should be on either)

It's quite unfortunate that whilst front daytime running lights are mandated, rear ones aren't - it would go a long way to helping in these situations.

 

[richw]

Rear fogs? Great in heavy rain too, better to beseen than not seen. The only real issue with rear fogs is that they disguise brake lights, so I'm cautious using them in stop-start traffic.

You shouldn’t be using them in stop start traffic, nor if you have a vehicle following you On any road at any speed. They should be used in similar circumstances to high beam on the front. If there is a vehicle behind they should be switched off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You shouldn’t be using them in stop start traffic, nor if you have a vehicle following you On any road at any speed. They should be used in similar circumstances to high beam on the front. If there is a vehicle behind they should be switched off.

Agreed. Keep checking your mirror, and if you can clearly see the headlights of a vehicle behind they will be able to see you too, so knock them off. If you can't see a vehicle behind and it's foggy, put them back on.

This is somewhat naughty, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't used their similarity to brake lights to my advantage, to get someone who is far too close to back off without actually braking, though a very light touch on the brakes can also light the brake lights to achieve that.

 

[Yew]

I suspect that in no small part this is because of the advent of both (front) DRLs and digital instrument clusters,

Indeed, I remember when I moved from a car with an analogue instrument cluster, that was only illuminated when the lights were on, to a digital always-on type. It was surprising how much I had relied on "can I see the instrument cluster" as a cue to turn on the lights.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, I remember when I moved from a car with an analogue instrument cluster, that was only illuminated when the lights were on, to a digital always-on type. It was surprising how much I had relied on "can I see the instrument cluster" as a cue to turn on the lights.

I find I do this too - it's almost subconscious.

 

[Domh245]

This is somewhat naughty, but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't used their similarity to brake lights to my advantage, to get someone who is far too close to back off without actually braking, though a very light touch on the brakes can also light the brake lights to achieve that.

I have on occasion used the rear foglight as the equivalent to a rear high beam by flashing it on/off repeatedly to try and alert somebody to the fact that their high beams were on and were rather blinding! Perhaps unsurprisingly, they didn't get the message :/

 

[corfield]

I have on occasion used the rear foglight as the equivalent to a rear high beam by flashing it on/off repeatedly to try and alert somebody to the fact that their high beams were on and were rather blinding! Perhaps unsurprisingly, they didn't get the message :/

If someone did that in front of me I’d assume they were some kind of idiot child playing with their switches and not focussing on driving.

I’d close up and look to get past at the first opportunity.

No idea which part of any driving instruction, course or highway code/law that is supposed to refer to in terms of good driving.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Most bus lanes are only part-time, with the hours of operation clearly marked by regular signposts... however most drivers seem blissfully unaware of this, and will pootle along in the right hand lane at 25mph in the middle of the day with the massive tailback trailing in their wake!

I've found that by actually paying attention to road markings and signposts, you can use the information gained to allow a more efficient use of space and a calmer experience than would otherwise be possible.

Bus lanes in parts of Plymouth where I grew up are permanent bus lanes. In Manchester many are only 7-10am and 4-7pm Monday to Friday, with some being 7am-7pm Monday to Friday. Manchester definitely trumps Plymouth there (not the only aspect in which it does!)

I think I see a lot more cars with their headlights on nowadays regardless of the weather conditions. Previously you'd know it was a Volvo if it had its headlights on, on a clear June day at midday! I turn mine on subconsciously these days.

 

[corfield]

You shouldn’t be using them in stop start traffic, nor if you have a vehicle following you On any road at any speed. They should be used in similar circumstances to high beam on the front. If there is a vehicle behind they should be switched off.

That is probably the best summary I’ve sene of rear fogs I’ve ever se

Always been surprised with the number of folk who don't bother with even regular lights in misty/foggy conditions. Invariably when driving a dark-coloured vehicle.

You can’t help some - but I suspect everyone has made that mistake at least once.

I had the opposite - my lights were far too bright due to an alternator failing and changed intensity with speed! I thought something was odd but couldn’t work it out. Fried alt/batt at the end cleared it up! It mist have been for a little while as I’d replaced both headlight bulbs recently.

My automatic lights seem pretty good, in 6 years I’ve never felt they should be on when not. If anything they are conservative as they come on when I wouldn’t expect it including heavy cloud (especially if transiting from one area to another and cloud cover changes).

Biggest problem they give me is remembering to turn them back on after I drop to sides for security barriers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Or a Saab

The last car I drove regularly had automatic headlights, so it would never occur to me to turn them on if I didn't need them.