Are the South Wales Metro and MetroWest Missing the Point?

[Nick Ashwell]

Both the South Wales Metro and MetroWest aim to serve their respective areas but do they not miss the point regarding South Monmouthshire and to a less extent Newport?

Recent governmental decisions have led to Chepstow becoming a suburb of Bristol in all but name and with more commuters moving to Monmouthshire the lack of joined-up thinking seems to be a major issue.

By and large for locals the area between Cardiff and Bristol is one large economic area, as was outlined years ago regarding giving the area a joined-up economic and socio-political strategy.

None of the proposals for Metro-type services seem to address the commuter issue. With two separate systems there will be a large population in the middle without adequate service.

 

[Glenn1969]

And in the rush to reopen Portishead and other lines was any thought given to finding a way for rail to serve Hay on Wye/Ross on Wye/Monmouth ?

 

[anthony263]

Express buses have been.suggested for Monmouth to Newport but such services have been tried by Newport bus without success same with Chepstow to Bristol.

Theres been talk of 3tph to bristol tm and to Chepstow

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Express buses have been.suggested for Monmouth to Newport but such services have been tried by Newport bus without success same with Chepstow to Bristol.

Theres been talk of 3tph to bristol tm and to Chepstow

Chepstow to Bristol was a success, Wales demanding the removal of tolls with total disregard for the local area is what has caused the issues.

 

[30907]

QUOTE="Nick Ashwell, post: 4610522, member: 66231"]
Recent governmental decisions have led to Chepstow becoming a suburb of Bristol in all but name and with more commuters moving to Monmouthshire the lack of joined-up thinking seems to be a major issue.
[/QUOTE]
How do you provide for Chepstow-Bristol by rail, to compete with the motorway?

And in the rush to reopen Portishead and other lines was any thought given to finding a way for rail to serve Hay on Wye/Ross on Wye/Monmouth ?

Ross and Monmouth have populations round the 10k mark - the sort of level that would justify a new station, but a complete rebuilt railway?? (Incidentally, where do people commute from Ross to? Gloucester/Cheltenham?
Hay is a village of 1500 - not sure the book trade could support a railway

 

[Nick Ashwell]

How do you provide for Chepstow-Bristol by rail, to compete with the motorway?

South Gloucestershire and FoD councils are ahead of you, proposing a road, rail, foot bridge around the alignment of the Severn Bridge (The original railway one).

 

[The Planner]

South Gloucestershire and FoD councils are ahead of you, proposing a road, rail, foot bridge around the alignment of the Severn Bridge (The original railway one).

Really? Altering a timetable would a hell of lot cheaper than trying to solve it via a direct rail route. What would that be trying to achieve?

 

[PeterC]

Really? Altering a timetable would a hell of lot cheaper than trying to solve it via a direct rail route. What would that be trying to achieve?

I suspect that they want a crossing that avoids the pinch points at Chepstow and Over and a direct rail service into Bristol for Lydney and the Forest communities. The proposal sounds like a little more than just reinstating the old railway bridge.

I have no idea if it is cost effective or not but having encountered both the Highbeech roundabout and the crossing at Over in the rush hour I can understand the attraction.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Replying to Nick's original point.

There's a lot of truth and merit in what he says. What's missing is the realisation of how heavily political and toxic this issue became in the years when Alun Cairns was Welsh secretary.

Cairns is a combatative and aggressive politician with an ability to rub people up the wrong way. The launch of his "Western Gateway" project with little or no consultation with the Welsh Government was an ill-disguised power-grab by a party which has been rejected by the Welsh electorate at every election for over a century.

As a result, while major strides are being made to improve cross-border connectivity between north Wales and the north-west of England where the Welsh Government are dealing with sympathetic Metro mayors in Merseyside and Greater Manchester, progress in the south had been painfully slow.

Adding to the problem in the fact that most cross-border services in the the north are provided by TfW while those in the south are primarily provided by GWR and Cross Country.

The new Welsh Secretary, Simon Hart, is on much friendlier terms with the Welsh Government so that gives some cause for hope.

An obvious first step to improve connectivity would be for TFW to run direct services between Swansea and Temple Meads. It's simply ridiculous that passengers have to change to travel between the largest and third largest cities in the SW/SWE area.

 

[anthony263]

Certainly if electrification to swansea was done by now tfw did plan an hourly Swansea to Bristol TM service using emus

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Certainly if electrification to swansea was done by now tfw did plan an hourly Swansea to Bristol TM service using emus

They applied to run it with DMUs and it was rejected by DfT IIRC

I hate to get political but a major obstacle in Monmouthshire is David Davis.

While both Newport Easts AM and PM have campaigned to save the bus route Davis, the MP serving Chepstow was silent, despite the service benefiting his constituents more!

There is also the political issue that Monmouthshire is the only county to vote against further devolution. In doing so it seems the Welsh Assembly have decided they won't do much for it. The lack of subsidies for the cross-border bus route being a perfect example.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

There is also the political issue that Monmouthshire is the only county to vote against further devolution. In doing so it seems the Welsh Assembly have decided they won't do much for it. The lack of subsidies for the cross-border bus route being a perfect example.

I don't think the way Monmouthshire voted on devolution is the issue here.

It's certainly the case that succesive Welsh Governments have targeted investment and recources at less affluent, urban local authority areas at the expense of more rural and affluent parts of the country. You only have to look at the way the revenue support grant to local government is distributed to see that.

I'm not saying that a good or a bad thing. It's just a political decision which you can agree or disagree with rather than case of punishing a particular part of the country.

Added to which, of course, cross-border links always complex. A prime example of that in Nick's part of the world is the row over who should pay for a new Chepstow by-pass the majority of which would be in England while the chief beneficiary, the town of Chepstow, is in Wales.

There's a very similar arguement about the proposed Llanymynech/Pant by-pass crossing from Powys into Salop. That one rumbled on for decades and has only recently been resolved.

Getting back to the point though, there is a genuine need for the Welsh Government to develop the same sort of constructive relationship it has with Andy Burnham and Steve Rotherham in Greater Manchester and Mersyside with Bristol's Mayor and Metro Mayor.

 

[HSTEd]

Devolution in a country where urban areas run across borders is always going to cause issues.
For example one obvious scheme to improve the transport connections in North Wales would be a Dee Railway tunnel, allowing Merseyrail to run to Rhyl and Pensarn.

But that would be a cross border project so would never get funded.

 

[Dr Day]

Most regional politics is about growing local economies for local people by providing transport within the region. Therefore hard to justify facilitating residents travelling to 'outside' jobs, nor encouraging 'outsiders' to take the jobs of local people by facilitating them coming in.

TfW/WG want people in Chepstow to support Cardiff's economy, not Bristol's. Either way, Chepstow-Bristol is a minority interest in the context of the wider Cardiff City Region, and Bristol-Chepstow in the context of the greater Bristol region.

Arguably Cardiff and Newport are reasonably well linked to Bristol TM and Parkway by rail, although the town of Chepstow isn't. If Brunel had built his tunnel a bit further north, Chepstow would have had a station on the Cardiff-Bristol axis but instead Chepstow is on a 'branch' off it (or more accurately the Severn tunnel is on a branch off the original Cardiff-London via Gloucester line). Politics isn't going to change this, unfortunately, and buses are generally funded by local authorities than regional ones who are even less likely to subsidise cross-border services.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Interstingly the Chepstow > Bristol express bus service mentioned up-thread has been reprieved following intervention by Monmouthshire County Council and Traws Cymru, the Welsh Government subsidised express coach network. The decision suggests to me that the claims that Welsh Government aren't interested in cross-border links or are somehow punishing Monmouthshire are wide of the mark.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/18509009.severn-express-bus-service-saved-last-minute/

"The Severn Express runs between Newport and Bristol via Chepstow - but was due to cease operation on Sunday, June 14, after operator Stagecoach said it had been losing more than £5,000 a week.

But today, Wednesday, transport firm NAT Group has announced it has stepped in to take over running the service on a six-month trial basis - although it will no longer serve Newport.

The new service will be called the x7 – Trawshafren, and will operate on weekdays, with early morning services starting in Magor before passing through Caldicot, Chepstow and Clifton on its way to Malborough Street in Bristol."

 

[anthony263]

Onmy the 1st 2 services in the morning run from Magor and the last 2 services from Bristol in the evenings. Otherwise all services run Bristol to Chepstow.

Attached a screenshot of the new timetable below

 

[Dr Day]

More than happy to take back my negative comments regarding the likelihood of support for the Chepstow-Bristol bus service! The timetable is certainly ambitious to deliver, assuming a return to pre-covid traffic levels within Bristol along the new route via Clifton, but welcome nonetheless.

 

[anthony263]

It's supposed to be reviewed after 3 months and could be expanded if it proves popular. Buses and drivers are from our Cardiff depot.

 

[squizzler]

The Welsh Government published a proposals map of the South Wales Mainline on 10 September. It apparently recognises the need for the region to be treated as an integrated whole. In its own words:

Welsh Government calls on UK Government to “play its part” as it backs Commission’s emphasis on public transport improvements in south east Wales
Proposals for new train services, stations and joined up transport in south east Wales have been outlined by Welsh Government, who have called on the UK Government to “play its part” in delivering improvements to Wales’ railway.

It comes as part of ongoing work to tackle congestion and improve transport links in the region.
In July the South East Wales Transport Commission published an ‘emerging conclusions’ report, noting the need for an integrated network of alternative transport options that do not depend on the motorway.
Responding to that report today, Welsh Government has backed the need for sustainable, long term alternatives to the private car.
Part of this response includes the publication of aspirations and proposals that outline its ambition for rail services. These would see a major upgrade of the south Wales main line in terms of capacity, line speed, rolling stock and widespread electrification – leading to improvements such as journey times of Cardiff to Bristol Temple Meads in 35 minutes and Cardiff to London in 85 minutes.
Welsh Government has also taken the opportunity to outline its aspirations and proposals for north Wales, which would also lead to increased services, better journey times and significant infrastructure improvements.
It has re-iterated calls for the UK Government to play its part in the delivery of these aspirations, in recognition of the current devolution settlement.
Ken Skates, Minister for Transport, Economy and North Wales, said:

I welcome this latest report from the Commission and want to thank them for their ongoing work. Their report highlights the need for all partners to come to the table and play their part in turning its recommendations into reality.
We are committed to delivering our responsibilities for buses, road improvements and active travel. The UK Government must now complete its long delayed rail review, fully devolve rail matters to Wales, and deliver a fair funding settlement so we can start to rectify the years of historic underinvestment by Westminster in the rail network in Wales.
We will press ahead with the actions we are able to take now, but the UK Government must play its part to deliver the major upgrades recommended by the Commission.

Here is the link for the proposals schematic map.

South Wales main line: rail network map

Major upgrades such as capacity, line speed, rolling stock and widespread electrification. This will enable:

• additional express services for better connectivity
• improved journey times
• more local commuter services
• address major network bottlenecks
• interchange at key hubs

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Good news but it still doesn't answer enough of they key local flows. South Monmouthshire commutes to Bristol and because of that a proper alternative to driving is needed and this will fails to go anywhere near that.