The Decline of Midland Red West

[richardjones21]

But Richard, you yourself pointed out the 2018 figure, and Nigel Eggleton arrived in 2016.



Turning the business around? So you believe that First Midland Red had to be turned around? I certainly agree with you that the £1.2m loss in 2016 was a disappointing result especially after the modest profits in 2014 and 2015.

The company has not made a substantial profit during the current managements era it just about broke even in 2018.

My comments are directed at the sucesses of the previous management of the company which was the basis of your original comment about the decline of the company not the useless rabble currently in charge you seem to admire for some reason

 

[richardjones21]

Are you thinking of the bit round Lowesmoor? Seems the bus priority was created but never effectively policed. Again, it points to a rather apathetic local authority.

I wondered if the extension to Halesowen might have been better to Merry Hell. Can't recall the timings but perhaps an extra vehicle would have been required and, as we know, the traffic at Christmas is a challenge.

Diamond Bus operates a high frequency high quality low fare service 002 from Halesowen to Merry Hill there would be no demand for First 147 to have operated to Merry Hill.

Drivers hours would have been an issue and the company did not accept Network West Midlands all operator passes at the time of the operation of the 147.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The company has not made a substantial profit during the current managements era it just about broke even in 2018.

My comments are directed at the sucesses of the previous management of the company which was the basis of your original comment about the decline of the company not the useless rabble currently in charge you seem to admire for some reason

It made a profit of £762k in 2018, comparable to 2014 £818k and better than 2015 £485k

Diamond Bus operates a high frequency high quality low fare service 002 from Halesowen to Merry Hill there would be no demand for First 147 to have operated to Merry Hill.

Evidently, there was insufficient demand even to Halesowen

 

[richardjones21]

It made a profit of £762k in 2018, comparable to 2014 £818k and better than 2015 £485k


Evidently, there was insufficient demand even to Halesowen

Your figures are correct and show the excellent work undertaken by the previous management structure in 2014 & 2015 compared to the loss made by the current management of the company in 2019 you seem to admire.

The 147 service is now operated under contract to Worcestershire County Council by Kevs Coaches between Bromesgrove & Halesowen.

Both Kevs Coaches & Diamond Bus have excellent management who understand the difficult market of Worcestershire compered with the complete failure of the current management of First Midland Red.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Your figures are correct and show the excellent work undertaken by the previous management structure in 2014 & 2015 compared to the loss made by the current management of the company in 2019 you seem to admire.

The 147 service is now operated under contract to Worcestershire County Council by Kevs Coaches between Bromesgrove & Halesowen.

Both Kevs Coaches & Diamond Bus have excellent management who understand the difficult market of Worcestershire compered with the complete failure of the current management of First Midland Red.

And the loss of 2016 of £1251k wasn't a reflection of the excellent work done by the previous management structure? This is all very confusing.

 

[richardjones21]

And the loss of 2016 of £1251k wasn't a reflection of the excellent work done by the previous management structure? This is all very confusing.

I

** Mod note **

This thread has been spun off from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/firstgroup-restructuring-and-survival.65668/


Fish rots from the head down.... It's not just the obvious examples of Northampton or SMT that make you realise how bad First got.

I had a spell of travelling on Midland Red West from 1996 to 2001. The business contracted as they cut back services and frequencies and exited Shropshire etc. They cashed in on various properties (Kiddy, Evesham) but investment was minimal especially when compared with the Badgerline days. The odd splurge of spending of some Merc minis in (1998) and a sizeable batch of e300s, Solos and a few Tridents in 2004.

From covering Worcestershire and Herefordshire plus reasonable chunks of Shropshire and West Mids, they're now confined to Worcester and Malvern with tendrils to Birmingham and Evesham plus a few infrequent runs to Tewkesbury or Ledbury. Saddening.

I fail to see what 2016 has to do with anything as my responses are based on your post about Midland Red West and your criticism of the management and operations made in your post about the company.

I have made my views clear on the current management of First Midland Red which despite the awful state currently the company is in you apparently admire.

 

[swifty]

Your figures are correct and show the excellent work undertaken by the previous management structure in 2014 & 2015 compared to the loss made by the current management of the company in 2019 you seem to admire.

I believe Nigel joined First at the end of 2013 and took the new role of MD First Midlands (MRW, PMT and LCB), so both periods you mention were under him.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe Nigel joined First at the end of 2013 and took the new role of MD First Midlands (MRW, PMT and LCB), so both periods you mention were under him.

You're right - I thought it was 2016 but seems it was 2014 so Nigel would have been in charge during that period.

 

[richardjones21]

I believe Nigel joined First at the end of 2013 and took the new role of MD First Midlands (MRW, PMT and LCB), so both periods you mention were under him.

I can confirm he did join in 2013 a very sad day for the company the reflections I am posting are from the period quoted by The Great Wazoo in his original post from 1995 onwards. The Great Wazoo incorrectly posted 2016 and is wrong as ever with 2014.

I have previously commented the current management of First Midland Red is utterly hopeless compared although liked by The Great Wazoo for some inexplicabe reason.

 

[duncombec]

I can confirm he did join in 2013 a very sad day for the company [...].

I have previously commented the current management of First Midland Red is utterly hopeless compared although liked by The Great Wazoo for some inexplicabe reason.

Perhaps you might like to quote the presumably explicable reason why you dislike the current management, which with your comments this morning now seems to be based more on personal dislike rather than actual operational facts?

Perhaps you might also like to compare your FMW figures with those of Diamond in the same periods, and also comment on the support (or otherwise, and not only in a pure financial sense) from Worcestershire CC that was in place at those times, which I believe had declined significantly, if not entirely, in recent years?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can confirm he did join in 2013

He joined on the 16th December 2013 - so not really able to make any manifest change in the last two weeks of the year. I readily concede I thought it was later and, like yourself, didn't appreciate that he had been in post quite so long.

Your figures are correct and show the excellent work undertaken by the previous management structure in 2014 & 2015 compared to the loss made by the current management of the company in 2019 you seem to admire.

It was the same MD - Nigel Eggleton.



As another comparison, the aggregate operating profit for the Eggleton era of 6 FYs is a profit of £488k. For the previous six financial years, it is a loss of £321k.

 

[richardjones21]

He joined on the 16th December 2013 - so not really able to make any manifest change in the last two weeks of the year



It was the same MD - Nigel Eggleton.



As another comparison, the aggregate operating profit for the Eggleton era of 6 FYs is a profit of £488k. For the previous six financial years, it is a loss of £321k.

From my memory most of the profit from 2014 & 2015 were from the sound policies initially retained of the previous management structure which we are very proud off.

2016 onwards the company began to enter the dark era of the current management structure you seem to applaud leading to the calamitous situation the company now finds it in.

I find nothing to admire in the current management structure and wonder what on earth you find to praise given the disaster of The Salt Road & Nimrod reflecting how out of touch the company management is to its employees and passengers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From my memory most of the profit from 2014 & 2015 were from the sound policies initially retained of the previous management structure which we are very proud off.

2016 onwards the company began to enter the dark era of the current management structure you seem to applaud leading to the calamitous situation the company now finds it in.

I find nothing to admire in the current management structure and wonder what on earth you find to praise given the disaster of The Salt Road & Nimrod reflecting how out of touch the company management is to its employees and passengers.

I'm sorry but when did you cease to work for First Midland Red?

I don't believe I said I admired the current management; I respect bus company managers (of whom some are my friends) across the UK in dealing with the many operational, commercial and legislative challenges that they have to encounter.

 

[richardjones21]

I'm sorry but when did you cease to work for First Midland Red?

I don't believe I said I admired the current management; I respect bus company managers (of whom some are my friends) across the UK in dealing with the many operational, commercial and legislative challenges that they have to encounter.

From Post 14 on 03/06/20 by The Great Wazoo

"More recently, I have a great deal of respect for Nigel Eggleton and his team"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't believe I said I admired the current management; I respect bus company managers (of whom some are my friends) across the UK in dealing with the many operational, commercial and legislative challenges that they have to encounter.

From Post 14 on 03/06/20 by The Great Wazoo

"More recently, I have a great deal of respect for Nigel Eggleton and his team"

So I said I didn't say I admired the current management. I said I had respect, and you've told that I said I had respect. Thanks for confirming that what I thought I had said, I had said.



When did you cease to be employed by First Midland Red?

 

[richardjones21]

So I said I didn't say I admired the current management. I said I had respect, and you've told that I said I had respect. Thanks for confirming that what I thought I had said, I had said.



When did you cease to be employed by First Midland Red?

Definition of the word "Admired" & "Respect"

Admired = regard with "respect" or warm approval

Respect = a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Definition of the word "Admired" & "Respect"

Admired = regard with "respect" or warm approval

Respect = a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

I suppose, in that sense or use of the word, I don't respect them. More an acknowledgement of the situation that they are in, rather than approval.


Now, when did you cease to be employed by First Midland Red?

 

[richardjones21]

I suppose, in that sense or use of the word, I don't respect them. More an acknowledgement of the situation that they are in, rather than approval.


Now, when did you cease to be employed by First Midland Red?

I have been in my current position in the bus industry for nearly five years.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have been in my current position in the bus industry for nearly five years.

That wasn't the question I asked.

When did you cease to be employed by First Midland Red?

 

[richardjones21]

That wasn't the question I asked.

When did you cease to be employed by First Midland Red?

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

Not wishing to seem obtuse but you went from First Midland Red directly to your new role in 2015? You worked under Nigel Eggleton?

 

[richardjones21]

Not wishing to seem obtuse but you went from First Midland Red directly to your new role in 2015? You worked under Nigel Eggleton?

I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton at First Midland Red. The work I currently undertake brings me occasionally into contact with him and the current management team at First Midland Red.

As the legendary Stephen Sondheim
ellequently puts it:
"But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton

Ok, so you left First Midland Red before Dec 2013. So when DID you cease to work for First Midland Red?

 

[richardjones21]

Ok, so you left First Midland Red before Dec 2013. So when DID you cease to work for First Midland Red?

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

As I stated in post 83
I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton at First Midland Red. The work I currently undertake brings me occasionally into contact with him and the current management team at First Midland Red.

As the legendary Stephen Sondheim
ellequently puts it:
"But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

As I stated in post 83
I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton at First Midland Red. The work I currently undertake brings me occasionally into contact with him and the current management team at First Midland Red.

You've been in your current role since 2015 (post 79). If you weren't there when Nigel Eggleton took over in December 2013 (post 83), when DID you cease to work for First Midland Red?

What month, what year?

 

[Stan Drews]

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

As I stated in post 83
I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton at First Midland Red. The work I currently undertake brings me occasionally into contact with him and the current management team at First Midland Red.

As the legendary Stephen Sondheim
ellequently puts it:
"But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here"

Aye, the entertainment level on the forum has certainly improved considerably since the beginning of June!

We used to have to make do with either the First/Lothian fan boy discussions, or the love/hate Alex Hornby discussions!!

 

[richardjones21]

You've been in your current role since 2015 (post 79). If you weren't there when Nigel Eggleton took over in December 2013 (post 83), when DID you cease to work for First Midland Red?

What month, what year?

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

As I stated in post 83
I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton at First Midland Red. The work I currently undertake brings me occasionally into contact with him and the current management team at First Midland Red.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I stated in post 79 I have been in my current post for nearly five years.

As I stated in post 83
I have NEVER worked in any capacity with Nigel Eggleton at First Midland Red. The work I currently undertake brings me occasionally into contact with him and the current management team at First Midland Red.

I'm sorry but you're not answering a very simple question. You must have left First Midland Red before December 2013 - when was it?

 

[duncombec]

“When a sensible woman has a reasonable question put to her, and evades it by a flippant answer, it is a sure sign, in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, that she has something to conceal.”
― Wilkie Collins, The Woman in White

 

[richardjones21]

“When a sensible woman has a reasonable question put to her, and evades it by a flippant answer, it is a sure sign, in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, that she has something to conceal.”
― Wilkie Collins, The Woman in White

Love that play it was brilliantly staged at Malvern Theatre and was a really a good laugh. Malvern Theatre easily reached by First Midland Red 44 & 675