Diamond Bus (Warwickshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire)

[richardjones21]

** Mod Note **

Posts in this thread were originally here:

2nd Hand Unrepainted buses

Remeber back in mid 70's when Eastern Scottish were experiencing a major bus shortage they acquired ex Central Lodekka FS's and put them straight into service still in Maroon and cream Livery, several went to Bathgate and were used on the 35 service which caused confusion when they entered the...

www.railforums.co.uk

They have been moved in order to separate the Diamond Bus discussion from the rest. It has taken some considerable time to do this, so I would ask you to please remain on topic!

If you spot any posts in this thread that have been moved in error, let us know via the report function.

They’ve still got solo’s and a few E200’s running round in Central livery and E200’s in Hansons livery even though they took over those companies years ago. I just think its lazy and shows the operator simply can’t be bothered. Then again, it is Diamond so it doesn’t surprise me.

Simon Dunn is doing an excellent job at Tividale's Diamond Bus and is providing a quality service in competition with National Express West Midlands in Birmingham & The Black Country with new acquisitions of Streetlites & Mellors and innovative fare products.

I fail to see what is wrong with the familiar liverys of previous operators especially as some are branded for the local market such as the 228.

It is reflection of Mr Dunns excellent financial skills and judgement and from a fiscal perspective most certainly not lazy that many areas of The Black Country & North Worcestershire would not have a bus service without Diamond Bus however the vehicle is painted this alone should be applauded not mocked.

 

[Pat1105]

Simon Dunn is doing an excellent job at Tividale's Diamond Bus and is providing a quality service in competition with National Express West Midlands in Birmingham & The Black Country with new acquisitions of Streetlites & Mellors and innovative fare products.

I fail to see what is wrong with the familiar liverys of previous operators especially as some are branded for the local market such as the 228.

It is reflection of Mr Dunns excellent financial skills and judgement and from a fiscal perspective most certainly not lazy that many areas of The Black Country & North Worcestershire would not have a bus service without Diamond Bus however the vehicle is painted this alone should be applauded not mocked.

I disagree with you there, Richard. Having vehicles running round in service with previous operators liveries can be confusing to passengers, not only does it look unprofessional and makes the company look lazy. I understand why Diamond chose not to repaint some of the older darts they acquired from Arriva & Hansons, as they were to be withdrawn shortly after acquisition. However, there is no excuse for some of the newer vehicles inherited from their acquisitions of other companies e.g Central.
I think TfWM really need to step up the mark with Diamond. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they provide a “quality service” as their vehicles are poorly maintained and some of their drivers could do with better training in terms of ticketing, route knowledge and overall customer service.
I remember Travel Express came under scrutiny for running round with previous operator liveries. They were told off for doing so and it resulted in them introducing the red livery that they currently have. If Travel Express have come under fire, then why haven’t Diamond?

 

[richardjones21]

I disagree with you there, Richard. Having vehicles running round in service with previous operators liveries can be confusing to passengers, not only does it look unprofessional and makes the company look lazy. I understand why Diamond chose not to repaint some of the older darts they acquired from Arriva & Hansons, as they were to be withdrawn shortly after acquisition. However, there is no excuse for some of the newer vehicles inherited from their acquisitions of other companies e.g Central.
I think TfWM really need to step up the mark with Diamond. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they provide a “quality service” as their vehicles are poorly maintained and some of their drivers could do with better training in terms of ticketing, route knowledge and overall customer service.
I remember Travel Express came under scrutiny for running round with previous operator liveries. They were told off for doing so and it resulted in them introducing the red livery that they currently have. If Travel Express have come under fire, then why haven’t Diamond?

Transport for West Midlands are working in a successful partnership on many routes with Diamond Bus including 41, 42, 43 & 226 among others and a large number of new vehicles have entered service in the last 18 months in partnership with TfWM improving service reliability for the benefit of customers.

 

[jkkne]

I disagree with you there, Richard. Having vehicles running round in service with previous operators liveries can be confusing to passengers, not only does it look unprofessional and makes the company look lazy.

My view on this has always been 95% of passengers don't care what colour the bus is, how many USB sockets it has or whether it's E-Leather or fabric. If it's got 4 wheels, seats, is priced reasonably and gets from A to B then that's it.

 

[py_megapixel]

My view on this has always been 95% of passengers don't care what colour the bus is, how many USB sockets it has or whether it's E-Leather or fabric. If it's got 4 wheels, seats, is priced reasonably and gets from A to B then that's it.

The other factor is whether the bus is clean, free of graffiti and doesn't look to be falling apart; I believe the fleet being dirty is a frequently cited complaint in the train world, and I imagine buses are the same.

 

[MotCO]

I would argue that if the buses were smartly presented, clean , in fleet livery etc, then the workforce would also up their game. It must be depressing working for a company with a 'couldn't-care-less' attitude, since that will inevitably drip-feed down to lessen the enthusiasm and professionalism of the staff.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I disagree with you there, Richard. Having vehicles running round in service with previous operators liveries can be confusing to passengers, not only does it look unprofessional and makes the company look lazy. I understand why Diamond chose not to repaint some of the older darts they acquired from Arriva & Hansons, as they were to be withdrawn shortly after acquisition. However, there is no excuse for some of the newer vehicles inherited from their acquisitions of other companies e.g Central.
I think TfWM really need to step up the mark with Diamond. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they provide a “quality service” as their vehicles are poorly maintained and some of their drivers could do with better training in terms of ticketing, route knowledge and overall customer service.
I remember Travel Express came under scrutiny for running round with previous operator liveries. They were told off for doing so and it resulted in them introducing the red livery that they currently have. If Travel Express have come under fire, then why haven’t Diamond?

I can agree with you there. Living one of the ex Hanson's routes that Diamond had purchased, over the past 18 months we've had anything from Hanson's livery E200s to Wessex livery B7s.

My next door neighbour (who very rarely uses the bus) still thinks (thanks to Diamond running whatever comes out of the Kidderminster random unit generator) that Hanson's still run the local route even though it's been diamond for nearly 2 years, all because they still use Hanson's livery E200s.

Surely it would have made sense for Diamond to have repainted the buses they were keeping, before they introduced the "Brighter Diamond" livery.

 

[Pat1105]

Transport for West Midlands are working in a successful partnership on many routes with Diamond Bus including 41, 42, 43 & 226 among others and a large number of new vehicles have entered service in the last 18 months in partnership with TfWM improving service reliability for the benefit of customers.

The introduction of the West Midlands Bus I think is a step in the right direction, as it allows integration of tickets, fleet livery and an overall better and simpler experience for the passenger. But I think that if Diamond will spend the money on investing in new vehicles, then why can’t they spend a fraction of that amount having vehicles in fleet livery?

My view on this has always been 95% of passengers don't care what colour the bus is, how many USB sockets it has or whether it's E-Leather or fabric. If it's got 4 wheels, seats, is priced reasonably and gets from A to B then that's it.

Yes, most passengers don’t care. However, it doesn’t do the brand image much good as there’s no continuity and just shows the operator can’t be bothered.

I would argue that if the buses were smartly presented, clean , in fleet livery etc, then the workforce would also up their game. It must be depressing working for a company with a 'couldn't-care-less' attitude, since that will inevitably drip-feed down to lessen the enthusiasm and professionalism of the staff.

One of my local operators run dirty, poorly maintained buses. They don’t employ a cleaner so it’s up to the drivers to clean their bus at the end of the day. After a 10 hour shift, I certainly wouldn’t be up for mopping out my bus! That said though, some of the drivers are friendly and polite but some are grumpy and rude.

 

[cnjb8]

It's all about getting passengers out of their cars and on to a bus, can you charge your phone in a car, yes. But now you can do that on a bus, with free wi-fi and a somewhat comfy seat.
My dad refuses to catch a bus because it doesn't take him directly from A to B, and that's why we've seen passenger numbers decline.

 

[richardjones21]

I can agree with you there. Living one of the ex Hanson's routes that Diamond had purchased, over the past 18 months we've had anything from Hanson's livery E200s to Wessex livery B7s.

My next door neighbour (who very rarely uses the bus) still thinks (thanks to Diamond running whatever comes out of the Kidderminster random unit generator) that Hanson's still run the local route even though it's been diamond for nearly 2 years, all because they still use Hanson's livery E200s.

Surely it would have made sense for Diamond to have repainted the buses they were keeping, before they introduced the "Brighter Diamond" livery.

Hanson's has an enormous amount of goodwill around Stourbridge and is now part of Diamond Bus I think personally it is prudent economically to keep vehicles in the previous livery especially on marginal routes as passengers are familiar with it. National Express West Midlands has numerous buses painted in the livery of its predecessors from Corporation days.

 

[richardjones21]

The introduction of the West Midlands Bus I think is a step in the right direction, as it allows integration of tickets, fleet livery and an overall better and simpler experience for the passenger. But I think that if Diamond will spend the money on investing in new vehicles, then why can’t they spend a fraction of that amount having vehicles in fleet livery?

Yes, most passengers don’t care. However, it doesn’t do the brand image much good as there’s no continuity and just shows the operator can’t be bothered.

One of my local operators run dirty, poorly maintained buses. They don’t employ a cleaner so it’s up to the drivers to clean their bus at the end of the day. After a 10 hour shift, I certainly wouldn’t be up for mopping out my bus! That said though, some of the drivers are friendly and polite but some are grumpy and rude.

I will pass your kind words to The Mayor of West Midlands Combined Authority who is very proud of West Midlands Bus.

 

[cnjb8]

Hanson's has an enormous amount of goodwill around Stourbridge and is now part of Diamond Bus I think personally it is prudent economically to keep vehicles in the previous livery especially on marginal routes as passengers are familiar with it. National Express West Midlands has numerous buses painted in the livery of its predecessors from Corporation days.

I think what was meant was that Diamond were repainting vehicles out of Hanson's livery, yet a large number remain. Those NatEx vehicles were intentionally painted like that on purpose.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think what was meant was that Diamond were repainting vehicles out of Hanson's livery, yet a large number remain. Those NatEx vehicles were intentionally painted like that on purpose.

Appreciate that Diamond are now repainting fleet but in Kidderminster, the image has been all over the place though with work and Covid, it's been 6 months since I last visited. New and repainted fleet were looking good but a mix of the bad and ugly too. The Diamond dark blue didn't weather well, hence the change in image, but it might have been ok had it been consistently applied.

Mind you, you also had Hansons vehicles with Diamond fleetnames (possibly) and then various red vehicles that originated with Wessex. Some wearing Hallmark fleetnames, one anonymous and one still had Wessex despite being in Kidderminster for 12 months. They run alongside various other red and grey ex Central kit.

 

[richardjones21]

I think what was meant was that Diamond were repainting vehicles out of Hanson's livery, yet a large number remain. Those NatEx vehicles were intentionally painted like that on purpose.

As the majority of Hanson vehicles are time expired its uneconomic to repaint older vehicles newer models would be repainted into the new Diamond livery when due.I cannot see any difference between a Wolverhampton Corporation livered bus on the X8 of NXWM & Diamond Buses in the Central Bus & Hansons livery.

 

[Pat1105]

As the majority of Hanson vehicles are time expired its uneconomic to repaint older vehicles newer models would be repainted into the new Diamond livery when due.I cannot see any difference between a Wolverhampton Corporation livered bus on the X8 of NXWM & Diamond Buses in the Central Bus & Hansons livery.

That’s what I said earlier. I understand why the darts weren’t repainted as they are end of life vehicles. However, the E200’s for example have still got plenty of life left in them yet, as do many of the ex Central vehicles.

 

[richardjones21]

That’s what I said earlier. I understand why the darts weren’t repainted as they are end of life vehicles. However, the E200’s for example have still got plenty of life left in them yet, as do many of the ex Central vehicles.

I cannot speak for Mr Dunn as he is a far better member of the industry than I am but I would see it as a simple matter of economics to the company.

 

[Pat1105]

I cannot speak for Mr Dunn as he is a far better member of the industry than I am but I would see it as a simple matter of economics to the company.

If it is a matter of economics, then why do they spend multi millions of pounds on new vehicles both for WM & NW, but won’t spend a fraction of that on putting their vehicles in the correct fleet livery?

 

[py_megapixel]

If it is a matter of economics, then why do they spend multi millions of pounds on new vehicles both for WM & NW, but won’t spend a fraction of that on putting their vehicles in the correct fleet livery?

Um... because brand new vehicles are as close as it gets to a transformation for passengers without major infrastructure changes, but whether a passenger is travelling on a red bus or a blue one doesn't make any difference to the experience at all?

 

[Pat1105]

Um... because brand new vehicles are as close as it gets to a transformation for passengers without major infrastructure changes, but whether a passenger is travelling on a red bus or a blue one doesn't make any difference to the experience at all?

I’d argue that it does make a difference to the passenger experience. I think that having the correct livery minimises the potential for confusion amongst passengers - especially on routes/corridors where there are multiple operators competing. Also, as I mentioned earlier, it creates a better quality brand image. To me, an operator running round vehicles with old liveries with stickers just plastered on portrays a poor brand image. How a bus is presented reflects the quality of service you’ll get in my opinion. As the saying goes, first impressions count...

 

[py_megapixel]

I’d argue that it does make a difference to the passenger experience. I think that having the correct livery minimises the potential for confusion amongst passengers - especially on routes/corridors where there are multiple operators competing. Also, as I mentioned earlier, it creates a better quality brand image. To me, an operator running round vehicles with old liveries with stickers just plastered on portrays a poor brand image. How a bus is presented reflects the quality of service you’ll get in my opinion. As the saying goes, first impressions count...

Oh I see, that makes more sense.

Still, various operators choose to keep the branding of others they acquired (presumably to minimise passenger confusion?) and I'd argue there's nothing wrong with that approach either. Especially if that brand still has value in the relevant area.

 

[Pat1105]

I will pass your kind words to The Mayor of West Midlands Combined Authority who is very proud of West Midlands Bus.

Please do Richard, I’m glad to see someone in the authorities that is ambitious and willing to provide the public with the high quality service that they deserve.

 

[Pat1105]

Oh I see, that makes more sense.

Still, various operators choose to keep the branding of others they acquired (presumably to minimise passenger confusion?) and I'd argue there's nothing wrong with that approach either. Especially if that brand still has value in the relevant area.

I can see where you’re coming from here, but in the case of Diamond, it becomes more of a problem. For example, their depot in Tividale covers the Black Country and parts of Birmingham and Staffordshire. Hanson’s operated in Stourbridge but their vehicles acquired by Diamond don’t always get allocated to routes around Stourbridge. They can be allocated to services in Birmingham etc.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think that’s mostly what puts people off using buses - the fact that there isn’t a route that takes them from A to B.

For orbital journeys yep, but for going to town? Nah.

To me, an operator running round vehicles with old liveries with stickers just plastered on portrays a poor brand image. How a bus is presented reflects the quality of service you’ll get

Spot on.

I get running old buses you're about to scrap in an old livery with vinyl fleetnames. I also get it takes a while to repaint a fleet when you've just bought another operator.

But if every bus you see is a different colour, with different insides and different vinyls, it just looks like you can't be bothered. Even if you just go for a basic colour, presentation is important. If they can't be chewed looking after the paint, what else might they be scrimping on?

It's telling that the operators who run what they brung are the ones who tend to be in front of the TC most often.

 

[Pat1105]

For orbital journeys yep, but for going to town? Nah.



Spot on.

I get running old buses you're about to scrap in an old livery with vinyl fleetnames. I also get it takes a while to repaint a fleet when you've just bought another operator.

But if every bus you see is a different colour, with different insides and different vinyls, it just looks like you can't be bothered. Even if you just go for a basic colour, presentation is important. If they can't be chewed looking after the paint, what else might they be scrimping on?

It's telling that the operators who run what they brung are the ones who tend to be in front of the TC most often.

Exactly, Travel Express are an operator that once “run what they brung” and have appeared before the TC 2 or 3 times. This was more to do with poor maintenance and breaking timetable regulations. Surprised they are still on the road! They did have all of their fleet in livery at one point, but unfortunately standards have slipped and they haven’t bothered to paint the enviro’s that they acquired last year. They’ve just slapped on the company stickers on one of them at least.
Another operator that is local to me is Thandi. They have all their vehicles in fleet livery, however the interiors of the darts still display Stagecoach publicity. They also have vinyls inside with the Stagecoach logo on.

 

[cnjb8]

For orbital journeys yep, but for going to town? Nah.

I think it's yes. The severe decline in bus routes across the UK shows this

 

[richardjones21]

I can see where you’re coming from here, but in the case of Diamond, it becomes more of a problem. For example, their depot in Tividale covers the Black Country and parts of Birmingham and Staffordshire. Hanson’s operated in Stourbridge but their vehicles acquired by Diamond don’t always get allocated to routes around Stourbridge. They can be allocated to services in Birmingham etc.

The majority of Diamond Bus vehicles still in Hansons colours are normally allocated to routes serving Stourbridge as many are based at Kidderminster garage whereas most Central Buses livery are based at Tividale and are seen around West Bromwich thier old operating areas. NXWM have buses painted in Walsall Corporation livery seen in Halesowen on the 4H and Wolverhampton Corporation livery on the X8 in Blackheath neither of which were served by the corporation. Why should there be 1 rule for Diamond Bus and 1 rule for NXWM in the West Midands your argument makes no sense. As long as the bus comes a doubt the public would bother at all.

 

[Pat1105]

The majority of Diamond Bus vehicles still in Hansons colours are normally allocated to routes serving Stourbridge as many are based at Kidderminster garage whereas most Central Buses livery are based at Tividale and are seen around West Bromwich thier old operating areas. NXWM have buses painted in Walsall Corporation livery seen in Halesowen on the 4H and Wolverhampton Corporation livery on the X8 in Blackheath neither of which were served by the corporation. Why should there be 1 rule for Diamond Bus and 1 rule for NXWM in the West Midands your argument makes no sense. As long as the bus comes a doubt the public would bother at all.

My argument makes perfect sense. Fair enough, the Hansons vehicles can be seen often on Stourbridge locals, but the Central vehicles are all over the place. There’s always some on Bilston services. Central didn’t operate in Bilston. Those NX corporation liveries are heritage liveries. They’re to commemorate the old corporations, and there’s only 5 or 6 sporting a heritage livery in the whole fleet. NX repainted them from the red & white livery, so hardly previous operator livery. Diamond have many more vehicles in previous operator livery. I've never seen the Walsall corporation trident on the 4H.

As I mentioned earlier, the way vehicles are presented says a lot about the operator. Diamond have no continuity with their fleet livery, which shows they simply can’t be bothered to simple tasks such as repainting a bus into fleet livery. There are many small independents who manage to do this soon after they acquire the bus, so if they can do it then why can’t Diamond? They’ve had these Hansons/Central vehicles for years now and yet they still aren’t painted.

The AQPS rules state:
2.8.2 No vehicles are to be used which remain in a livery belonging to a previous operator under any circumstances or bear any previous operator’s branding or other information.

Diamond are breaking these regulations here, yet TfWM don’t seem to be doing anything about it.

 

[richardjones21]

My argument makes perfect sense. Fair enough, the Hansons vehicles can be seen often on Stourbridge locals, but the Central vehicles are all over the place. There’s always some on Bilston services. Central didn’t operate in Bilston. Those NX corporation liveries are heritage liveries. They’re to commemorate the old corporations, and there’s only 5 or 6 sporting a heritage livery in the whole fleet. NX repainted them from the red & white livery, so hardly previous operator livery. Diamond have many more vehicles in previous operator livery. I've never seen the Walsall corporation trident on the 4H.

As I mentioned earlier, the way vehicles are presented says a lot about the operator. Diamond have no continuity with their fleet livery, which shows they simply can’t be bothered to simple tasks such as repainting a bus into fleet livery. There are many small independents who manage to do this soon after they acquire the bus, so if they can do it then why can’t Diamond? They’ve had these Hansons/Central vehicles for years now and yet they still aren’t painted.

The AQPS rules state:
2.8.2 No vehicles are to be used which remain in a livery belonging to a previous operator under any circumstances or bear any previous operator’s branding or other information.

Diamond are breaking these regulations here, yet TfWM don’t seem to be doing anything about it.

The Walsall Corporation Trident was on the 4H last week and looked totally stupid in Halesowen compered with the Hanson & Central Buses liverys which were previously operated. The buses are not in a previous operators livery Hansons of Stourbridge and Central Buses Ltd are now part of Diamond Bus and are consequently of no relevance to TfWM unless stated under a tender contract. I understood the livery of Walsall Corporation was a previous livery of West Midlands Travel Limited formed in 1986 from the WMPTA formed in 1968 from Walsall Corporation.

 

[Pat1105]

The Walsall Corporation Trident was on the 4H last week and looked totally stupid in Halesowen compered with the Hanson & Central Buses liverys which were previously operated. The buses are not in a previous operators livery Hansons of Stourbridge and Central Buses Ltd are now part of Diamond Bus and are consequently of no relevance to TfWM unless stated under a tender contract. I understood the livery of Walsall Corporation was a previous livery of West Midlands Travel Limited formed in 1986 from the WMPTA formed in 1968 from Walsall Corporation.

The buses are still in previous operator livery even though they’ve got Diamond stickers plastered on. They do use the Central/Hansons vehicles on tenders.

 

[richardjones21]

The buses are still in previous operator livery even though they’ve got Diamond stickers plastered on. They do use the Central/Hansons vehicles on tenders.

The buses are not in a previous operators livery as Hansons of Stourbridge & Central Buses are now part of Diamond Bus and as such are of no consequence to TfWM if the vehicle allocated is to the specification in the tender.