What does it mean when someone’s signal is in the stop position

[El Toro]

Hi, I am new to this forum, so please excuse my ignorance. I would like to ask: What does it mean when someone’s signal is in the stop position please. Thanks in advance.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Hi, I am new to this forum, so please excuse me ignorance. I would like to ask: What does it mean when someone’s signal is in the stop position please. Thanks in advance.

Red light displayed

 

[ainsworth74]

Welcome!

Could you perhaps add a bit more detail about what specific situation you're thinking about?

 

[hexagon789]

Hi, I am new to this forum, so please excuse my ignorance. I would like to ask: What does it mean when someone’s signal is in the stop position please. Thanks in advance.

If it relates to mechanical "semaphore" signals, the 'stop' position would be horizontal. I can't quite think what a stop position would be with colour light signals.

 

[Peter C]

If it relates to mechanical "semaphore" signals, the 'stop' position would be horizontal. I can't quite think what a stop position would be with colour light signals.

For a colour light signal it could simply be a red aspect, unless the OP means something else

-Peter

 

[hexagon789]

For a colour light signal it could simply be a red aspect, unless the OP means something else

-Peter

I took "position" to mean a physical position but yes I think in relation to colour lights the only thing is could be would be a red aspect.

 

[Peter C]

I took "position" to mean a physical position but yes I think in relation to colour lights the only thing is could be would be a red aspect.

Yep. It might also refer to banner repeaters, which do show a position in the form of the lights creating either a horizontal bar for stop or an angled bar for clear/caution?

-Peter

 

[hexagon789]

Yep. It might also refer to banner repeaters, which do show a position in the form of the lights creating either a horizontal bar for stop or an angled bar for clear/caution?

-Peter

Could be that as well, I think we'll just have to await the OP's return to provide clarity

 

[Peter C]

Could be that as well, I think we'll just have to await the OP's return to provide clarity

Yep - then we'll know what we're going for

-Peter

 

[800002]

Yep. It might also refer to banner repeaters, which do show a position in the form of the lights creating either a horizontal bar for stop or an angled bar for clear/caution?

-Peter

Then of course there are the colour enhanced banner repeaters. Sorry, their proper name eludes me at this point in time.
They display a green or yellow background behind the indicator bar to indicate the clear / caution when it's not indicating the 'on' / danger, horizontal bar.
I can't recall though if they display a red background for the complete signal sequence though.

 

[Domh245]

Then of course there are the colour enhanced banner repeaters. Sorry, their proper name eludes me at this point in time.
They display a green or yellow background behind the indicator bar to indicate the clear / caution when it's not indicating the 'on' / danger, horizontal bar.
I can't recall though if they display a red background for the complete signal sequence though.

Do you mean 3 state banner repeaters? Those are the only multi-state repeaters that I'm aware of, but they only either show green or white 'off' states (corresponding to green or yellow/double yellow aspects) and white 'on' (red aspect) - there's no yellow coloured banner repeaters!

Co-acting Signals and Repeater Signals

 

[Peter C]

Then of course there are the colour enhanced banner repeaters. Sorry, their proper name eludes me at this point in time.
They display a green or yellow background behind the indicator bar to indicate the clear / caution when it's not indicating the 'on' / danger, horizontal bar.
I can't recall though if they display a red background for the complete signal sequence though.

Yes - those as well. I don't think they display a red background. The yellow colour might be the angle it's viewed from (or something else), although I'm not too sure - @Domh245 says there are no yellow banner repeaters, but I could've sworn the one at Banbury on P3 appears yellow.

-Peter

 

[_toommm_]

Yes - those as well. I don't think they display a red background. The yellow colour might be the angle it's viewed from (or something else), although I'm not too sure - @Domh245 says there are no yellow banner repeaters, but I could've sworn the one at Banbury on P3 appears yellow.

-Peter

The new style banner repeaters will light up green at 45 degrees for a green signal, white at 45 degrees for either single yellow or double yellow, or white horizontal to show red. At this moment in time they can’t differentiate between single and double yellow.

 

[Peter C]

The new style banner repeaters will light up green at 45 degrees for a green signal, white at 45 degrees for either single yellow or double yellow, or white horizontal to show red. At this moment in time they can’t differentiate between single and double yellow.

Oh OK - thanks for clearing that one up.

-Peter

 

[El Toro]

If it relates to mechanical "semaphore" signals, the 'stop' position would be horizontal. I can't quite think what a stop position would be with colour light signals.

Thanks , what I meant was if a subscriber has his own signal down on this website, does that mean that he/ she is unavailable? On on the real railway the arm in the down position would correspond to a red signal light. Thanks for your reply though , much appreciated

 

[El Toro]

For a colour light signal it could simply be a red aspect, unless the OP means something else

-Peter

Hi there, sorry for any confusion. I was referring to the individual subscribers semaphore signal in the down position on this website. When this is the case, does it mean that the person is unavailable? Thanks for your reply though. Much appreciated

 

[Domh245]

Those semaphores are to indicate if there are any unread threads in that subforum or not. Green/up is unread threads - Red/down are no unread threads

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks , what I meant was if a subscriber has his own signal down on this website, does that mean that he/ she is unavailable? On on the real railway the arm in the down position would correspond to a red signal light. Thanks for your reply though , much appreciated

Oh I see! I think everyone assumed you meant real life railway signals but at least we got a wee laugh out of it!

 

[800002]

Do you mean 3 state banner repeaters? Those are the only multi-state repeaters that I'm aware of, but they only either show green or white 'off' states (corresponding to green or yellow/double yellow aspects) and white 'on' (red aspect) - there's no yellow coloured banner repeaters!

Co-acting Signals and Repeater Signals

Ahh, thanks for clarifying.
I could have sorn, however, that when I was at Ealing Broadway (down relief) I saw a 'yellow' - but as Peter C, below, said, it was possibly the angle of viewing and its location, in the somewhat dimly lit shadow of the overbridge.

Yes - those as well. I don't think they display a red background. The yellow colour might be the angle it's viewed from (or something else), although I'm not too sure - @Domh245 says there are no yellow banner repeaters, but I could've sworn the one at Banbury on P3 appears yellow.

-Peter

My apologies to all for any confusion caused.

 

[El Toro]

Oh I see! I think everyone assumed you meant real life railway signals but at least we got a wee laugh out of it!

No problem

 

[El Toro]

Those semaphores are to indicate if there are any unread threads in that subforum or not. Green/up is unread threads - Red/down are no unread threads

Thanks, much appreciated!

 

[El Toro]

Welcome!

Could you perhaps add a bit more detail about what specific situation you're thinking about?

Welcome!

Could you perhaps add a bit more detail about what specific situation you're thinking about?

Hi thanks for the welcome. I was wondering what the individual’s signal (“someone’s signal”) denoted on this website when it was in the down position. Sorry for any confusion. Some of the other subscribers have explained. Thanks again for your kind welcome and your reply

 

[MotCO]

If it relates to mechanical "semaphore" signals, the 'stop' position would be horizontal. I can't quite think what a stop position would be with colour light signals.

I'm sure I read some time ago that the meaning of a signal changed after heavy snow on a signal made the semaphore drop to show 'proceed', whereas what was required was a 'stop'. Is there any truth to this?

 

[Peter C]

I'm sure I read some time ago that the meaning of a signal changed after heavy snow on a signal made the semaphore drop to show 'proceed', whereas what was required was a 'stop'. Is there any truth to this?

If the semaphore dropped down, therefore showing a proceed, that would have been on the GWR or later the Western Region as to my knowledge they were the only company/region to have "lower quadrant" signals, i.e. the signal arm drops down to show a proceed aspect.
The problem with that system was that if a wire broke, or if snow fell on the arm and was heavy enough, the arm would fall down, therefore displaying an incorrect aspect. This was not a fail-safe system! One of the many brilliant quirks of the GWR.

Hope this helps,

-Peter

 

[hexagon789]

I'm sure I read some time ago that the meaning of a signal changed after heavy snow on a signal made the semaphore drop to show 'proceed', whereas what was required was a 'stop'. Is there any truth to this?

Perhaps snow could've causes a signal to fail by weighing it down incorrectly but in the UK it has been standard that inclined upwards or downwards is 'clear' and horizontal is 'caution' or 'danger' depending on if it's a distant or home signal

 

[Merle Haggard]

If the semaphore dropped down, therefore showing a proceed, that would have been on the GWR or later the Western Region as to my knowledge they were the only company/region to have "lower quadrant" signals, i.e. the signal arm drops down to show a proceed aspect.
The problem with that system was that if a wire broke, or if snow fell on the arm and was heavy enough, the arm would fall down, therefore displaying an incorrect aspect. This was not a fail-safe system! One of the many brilliant quirks of the GWR.

Hope this helps,

-Peter

Just to point out (and I'm surprised that no-one has done so alrready) that lower quadrant signals were not confined to the GWR - every pre-group company except the GN used them and many survived into my trainspotting youth.
There are balance weights on both upper and lower quadrant signals (usually at the base of the post) so that, if a signal wire snaps the signal can only display danger (or caution, in the case of a distant). The spectacle plate is a heavy casting, which also helps.
The pivot point of a LQ signal was about 1/3 along from the spectacle, and the latter, as mentioned, was a heavy casting whereas the arm was light and thin so it's unlikely that a sufficient weight of snow could accumulate on the upper edge of the arm to overcome the other forces.
The GN did have an accident caused by snow affecting signal aspects, but this was when their signal arms 'disappeared' into a slot in the post. Learning from this, they changed to 'somersault' signals. However, the LNWR (in the case of the LNWR/GNR joint line) did not consider that somersault signals conformed to the Board of Trade specifications...

As an aside, a puzzle. If signal arms replaced a men holding their arms out; why do they point away from the line? If you wanted a train to stop, who would hold their arm out horizontally away from the track?

 

[hexagon789]

Just to point out (and I'm surprised that no-one has done so alrready) that lower quadrant signals were not confined to the GWR - every pre-group company except the GN used them and many survived into my trainspotting youth.

Ireland is exclusively lower quadrant, and historically when semaphores were still widespread one of the few exceptions to that were the departure signals at Larne Harbour which were upper quadrant.

As an aside, a puzzle. If signal arms replaced a men holding their arms out; why do they point away from the line? If you wanted a train to stop, who woul

Clearances?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Clearances?

I can see that, but I have thought about it over the years and, if the arm pointed towards the line it could be above the loading gauge and therefore the post could be in the same position. Alternatively (for sighting reasons) , if the post was set back it would have the advantage of a greater clearance with passing trains - it's not just incautious passengers that have come to grief in the past. Interestingly, because the GWR drove on the right, quite a few signals were on the 'wrong' side for sighting reasons and therefore did have the arm pointing towards the rails.

But just pointed it out because it seems to be another thing we all take for granted but which isn't entirely logical if you think about it.

 

[Peter C]

Just to point out (and I'm surprised that no-one has done so alrready) that lower quadrant signals were not confined to the GWR - every pre-group company except the GN used them and many survived into my trainspotting youth.
There are balance weights on both upper and lower quadrant signals (usually at the base of the post) so that, if a signal wire snaps the signal can only display danger (or caution, in the case of a distant). The spectacle plate is a heavy casting, which also helps.
The pivot point of a LQ signal was about 1/3 along from the spectacle, and the latter, as mentioned, was a heavy casting whereas the arm was light and thin so it's unlikely that a sufficient weight of snow could accumulate on the upper edge of the arm to overcome the other forces.
The GN did have an accident caused by snow affecting signal aspects, but this was when their signal arms 'disappeared' into a slot in the post. Learning from this, they changed to 'somersault' signals. However, the LNWR (in the case of the LNWR/GNR joint line) did not consider that somersault signals conformed to the Board of Trade specifications...

As an aside, a puzzle. If signal arms replaced a men holding their arms out; why do they point away from the line? If you wanted a train to stop, who would hold their arm out horizontally away from the track?

Oh OK - thanks for clearing that one up. I assumed that the GWR were the only one which used such signals. I find the history of how signalling developed over the years to be really interesting so that's quite a good read

-Peter

 

[El Toro]

I'm sure I read some time ago that the meaning of a signal changed after heavy snow on a signal made the semaphore drop to show 'proceed', whereas what was required was a 'stop'. Is there any truth to this?

Hi there perhaps that may have been indeed so, but I’ve never heard of this before now, if this were so, it will have been due to it being a Lower Quadrant Signal , the proceed aspect being signified by the downward angle of the semaphore arm. So a change to the Upper quadrant Signal as displayed on our website meant that if the signal failed it would fail-safe , at the stop indication.The cable supporting the semaphore arm of the lower quadrant signal would have to be broken first for the arm to drop to the proceed aspect