HS2: South Yorkshire Parkway Report

[Jorge Da Silva]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...outh-yorkshire-parkway-and-connectivity-study Published in July 2019 one report is from 2017 the other 2019.

This is the link to both reports which they considered a potential South Yorkshire Parkway station either on the existing line at Dearne Valley (near Thurnscoe), Rotherham, Meadowhall or Barnsley. Another option was on the Mainline at Wales, Hooton Roberts, Fitzwilliam, Bramley, Mexborough, Hemsworth, Clayton and Hickleton. In the end it seems like Wales and Hemsworth were the options for a M18 Parkway station with Hemsworth Parkway station was the favourite for an M18 Parkway with 4 platforms and 2 non-stop tracks.

 

[D365]

So is this a proposal for an additional station under HS2 “Phase 2b”?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

So is this a proposal for an additional station under HS2 “Phase 2b”?

Yes. Basically to serve South Yorkshire rather than just Sheffield.

 

[johnnychips]

Yes. Basically to serve South Yorkshire rather than just Sheffield.

Of the two preferred possible options, Hemsworth is in West Yorkshire, and Wales is on the Derbyshire border. I’ve skim-read the report and the case for either doesn’t seem convincing.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Of the two preferred possible options, Hemsworth is in West Yorkshire, and Wales is on the Derbyshire border. I’ve skim-read the report and the case for either doesn’t seem convincing.

It seems to say there could be a case for Hemsworth but I suspect Dearne Valley parkway and Rotherham NPR Main Line station (either Parkgate or Masborough) is more likely than Wales or Hemsworth.

 

[MarkyT]

A c

It seems to say there could be a case for Hemsworth but I suspect Dearne Valley parkway and Rotherham NPR Main Line station (either Parkgate or Masborough) is more likely than Wales or Hemsworth.

An expanded Rotherham Central station would be better in my opinion with a new curve from the Sheffield line through the scrapyard to increase line speed. To be served by Sheffield HS2 services projected through Sheffield Midland, NPR, and XC trains.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-rotherham-masborough-reopen.178887/#post-3897861

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

A c

An expanded Rotherham Central station would be better in my opinion with a new curve from the Sheffield line through the scrapyard to increase line speed. To be served by Sheffield HS2 services projected through Sheffield Midland, NPR, and XC trains.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-rotherham-masborough-reopen.178887/#post-3897861

don't think that is likely i think it was one of the most expensive of the extension options. Sheffield City Region seems to like Dearne Valley Parkway. It also likes a new Rotherham Main Line station (maybe Parkgate or Masborough).

 

[D365]

An expanded Rotherham Central station would be better in my opinion with a new curve from the Sheffield line through the scrapyard to increase line speed. To be served by Sheffield HS2 services projected through Sheffield Midland, NPR, and XC trains.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-rotherham-masborough-reopen.178887/#post-3897861

Rotherham Central would need a huge, huge amount of demolition surely.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Rotherham Central would need a huge, huge amount of demolition surely.

Yes and the most expensive of all the extension options and disruptive. I think Sheffield City Region has proposed a three platformed station (two through one terminating) near Thrunscoe to serve as an NPR and HS2 interchange with bus services to Barnsley and Doncaster (and of course more will be added as well as local and regional rail services) as well as a new main line station on the actual mainline (ruling out Central station). I think Masborough will be an option.

 

[MarkyT]

Rotherham Central would need a huge, huge amount of demolition surely.

Did you look at my sketch?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/rotherham-jpg.59719/

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Did you look at my sketch?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/rotherham-jpg.59719/

There are roads in the way and alot of buildings so alot of demolition work is required Compared with a station at Masborough with three platforms (two through, one terminating) estimated at £142 Million. Even their proposal for Central which includes electrification of the route from Holmes Junction to Rotherham Central junction; existing platforms at Rotherham Central extended to 200 metres; a new turnback siding and associated crossover to the north of Rotherham Central; new flyover at Holmes Junction to double-track the section of route between Meadowhall and Rotherham Central; and closure of Holmes Junction level crossing and provision of a new road bridge. This is costed at £224 Million.

 

[MarkyT]

There are roads in the way and alot of buildings so alot of demolition work is required Compared with a station at Masborough with three platforms (two through, one terminating) estimated at £142 Million. Even their proposal for Central which includes electrification of the route from Holmes Junction to Rotherham Central junction; existing platforms at Rotherham Central extended to 200 metres; a new turnback siding and associated crossover to the north of Rotherham Central; new flyover at Holmes Junction to double-track the section of route between Meadowhall and Rotherham Central; and closure of Holmes Junction level crossing and provision of a new road bridge. This is costed at £224 Million.

And Masborough is still in the middle of nowhere and beyond realistic walking from the town centre and bus station, and the option doesn't eliminate the slow speed chord from Sheffield. My proposal, on the other hand, offers the opportunity for major town centre focussed regeneration and development of land to the west of the river, yet with the wide dual carriageway roads nearby still offers good road access potential for the wider region. All the land for my alignment crosses is currently low-value industrial use, much of it being the scrapyard premises.

 

[HSTEd]

What's the business case for this station like?

Sheffield had a through station, they decided they didn't want that and got a dead end spur to Sheffield, which they demanded, and now that no longer suits them?

 

[Ianno87]

And Masborough is still in the middle of nowhere and beyond realistic walking from the town centre and bus station, and the option doesn't eliminate the slow speed chord from Sheffield. My proposal, on the other hand, offers the opportunity for major town centre focussed regeneration and development of land to the west of the river, yet with the wide dual carriageway roads nearby still offers good road access potential for the wider region. All the land for my alignment crosses is currently low-value industrial use, much of it being the scrapyard premises.

I suspect the case for the station is far more likely to stack up if it's a simple station plonked on the existing main line (with the area around regenerated), rather than huge new sweeping chords with lots of property demolition.

Your design is very lovely, but very very very disruptive and expensive.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I suspect the case for the station is far more likely to stack up if it's a simple station plonked on the existing main line (with the area around regenerated), rather than huge new sweeping chords with lots of property demolition.

Your design is very lovely, but very very very disruptive and expensive.

Exactly!

 

[Ianno87]

To slightly mis-quote Arctic Monkeys*: "It's not New York City, it's Rotherham".

*Fake Tales of San Francisco

 

[Glenn1969]

The dates on those links make me wonder whether all those options were derailed by the insistence on a city centre station by Sheffield City Council and city centre traders?

 

[MarkyT]

To slightly mis-quote Arctic Monkeys*: "It's not New York City, it's Rotherham".

*Fake Tales of San Francisco

The irony is that even if non of then ever stopped there and there were no new platforms there for that, my alignment through Central would significantly speed up trains passing THROUGH Rotherham. That curve from Sheffield to Masborough, at under 400m radius, will forever be a major limitation (50mph currently).

 

[Ianno87]

The irony is that even if non of then ever stopped there and there were no new platforms there for that, my alignment through Central would significantly speed up trains passing THROUGH Rotherham. That curve from Sheffield to Masborough, at under 400m radius, will forever be a major limitation (50mph currently).

Not sure what the point of that is when the current XC services that non-stop Rotherham today (and thus biggest beneficiaries to easing the curve) will be superseded by trains using the HS2 main line, which kind of undermines the business case for doing it.

The future incarnation of XC is *more* likely to want to stop at a Masborough station to increase regional connections, as it no longer has to worry about providing fasts Leeds-Birmingham journeys.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Not sure what the point of that is when the current XC services that non-stop Rotherham today (and thus biggest beneficiaries to easing the curve) will be superseded by trains using the HS2 main line, which kind of undermines the business case for doing it.

The future incarnation of XC is *more* likely to want to stop at a Masborough station to increase regional connections, as it no longer has to worry about providing fasts Leeds-Birmingham journeys.

I think Rotherham Masborough is a good option

 

[Glenn1969]

But some of the existing services will still be there to serve Derby, Tamworth and other such places not on the HS2 line. Maybe some of these could call at a reopened Masborough or similar station ?

 

[MarkyT]

I think Rotherham Masborough is a good option

Except it's a further quarter-mile outside the town centre, away from the bus interchange and in the middle of a run-down industrial area.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

But some of the existing services will still be there to serve Derby, Tamworth and other such places not on the HS2 line. Maybe some of these could call at a reopened Masborough or similar station ?

Could well do. Be good for Rotherham

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Except it's a further quarter-mile outside the town centre, away from the bus interchange and in the middle of a run-down industrial area.

It’s a more sensible option. This is Rotherham not Sheffield!

 

[Ianno87]

Except it's a further quarter-mile outside the town centre, away from the bus interchange and in the middle of a run-down industrial area.

A new station served by HS2 trains might make it much less of a run-down industrial area.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

But some of the existing services will still be there to serve Derby, Tamworth and other such places not on the HS2 line. Maybe some of these could call at a reopened Masborough or similar station ?

XCountry could run to Hull (instead of Newcastle) and then this service (Hull to Reading/Southampton) could call at a new 3-platformed station at Rotherham Masborough with the Cleethorpes-Manchester Airport service also stopping there.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

A new station served by HS2 trains might make it much less of a run-down industrial area.

Absolutely agree I think it is what Rotherham needs as well as regular hourly services to Cleethorpes and Manchester Airport and also Hull and Reading (diverted from Newcastle post-HS2).

 

[MarkyT]

A new station served by HS2 trains might make it much less of a run-down industrial area.

Still a long way from the town centre though, and road connections are much better at Central too. Adequate Road links for Masborough might require just as much demolition overall as my rail alignment, which wholly avoids any residential property as well. The reason local services were diverted away from Masborough in the first place was because it was a seriously awful location to serve the town from a host of perspectives. Having two separate stations for the town would also prevent easy interchange there between local and long distance trains or trams and also involve duplicated costs of manning and maintining facilities at the two sites. The original HS2 Central option looked only at extending 1TPH HS2 service to terminate there via the Holmes chord, with a very minimal station upgrade. My scheme diverts other through traffic there as well with greater benefit.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Still a long way from the town centre though, and road connections are much better at Central too. Adequate Road links for Masborough might require just as much demolition overall as my rail alignment, which wholly avoids any residential property as well. The reason local services were diverted away from Masborough in the first place was because it was a seriously awful location to serve the town from a host of perspectives. Having two separate stations for the town would also prevent easy interchange there between local and long distance trains or trams and also involve duplicated costs of manning and maintining facilities at the two sites. The original HS2 Central option looked only at extending 1TPH HS2 service to terminate there via the Holmes chord, with a very minimal station upgrade. My scheme diverts other through traffic there as well with greater benefit.

Still VERY Expensive and disruptive. No one is suggesting diverting services away from Central. Your scheme is far too expensive and is not the most cost-effective solution

 

[MarkyT]

Still VERY Expensive and disruptive. No one is suggesting diverting services away from Central. Your scheme is far too expensive and is not the most cost-effective solution

I did not suggest that either. I pointed out the disadvantages of running two fairly closely located stations. That does not lead logically to the notion of closing the one most convenient to the settlement it serves and relocating all services to a skanky industrial area on the periphery of town that isn't even directly on a major road.