Displaying a lot of via points that the bus has already passed just makes it worse for tourists, especially somewhere like London where no interaction with the driver is needed. A clear number and destination is vital, anything else is distracting and reduces the space available.
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Strangest bus destination screens?
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Pat1105
Member
I disagree. People would just look for the point that they want to go to and not give much attention to anywhere else. Say you want to go from Marylebone to Euston. You know you need the 205 heading eastbound to Bow Church. You look for Euston on the destination blind as the bus approaches - everywhere else you’d just disregard. Bus stop signage and timetable information would help the passenger to make sure that they’re on the correct side of the road, going in the direction of their destination. Also, the passenger would probably be able to tell which points the bus has passed, as they’d just look at the via points that appear after the point they’re currently waiting at.
You often have a situation where you’ve got 2 services
A direct bus that goes A to B to C
And a slow bus that goes A to B via an indirect route
If you only showed final destination, passengers wanting to go to B may catch the second slower bus, as that’s the only one that has B on the front
A direct bus that goes A to B to C
And a slow bus that goes A to B via an indirect route
If you only showed final destination, passengers wanting to go to B may catch the second slower bus, as that’s the only one that has B on the front
Pat1105
Member
That’s another reason why displaying via points is vital. For example, in Shrewsbury, there are 2 routes that go to Monkmoor: the 1 & the 23. The 1 goes direct and the 23 goes via Shirehall & Belvidere. None of them show any via points at all.
Again the via points add no value. Without an intermitate knowledge of Shrewsbury somebody isn't going to be able to tell if the route via a, b and c is any different from e, f and g (other than if one of them can show Direct or Limited Stop). If they consult the timetable then they'll find the route number they want and look for that. If they cant consult the timetable they have to ask the driver, the via points are not going to help them.
This assumes you already know that you want the 205 to Bow Church, in which case it's easier to look for Bow Church. Otherwise (if the buses had via blinds) there are buses passing on both sides of the road showing Euston so you either catch whichever direction you feel like or you have to consult the timetable (making the via blind useless).
Pat1105
Member
But it’s obvious that the route that displays more via points between the two destinations is going to be longer! I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Pat1105
Member
I don’t see the via blind as being useless though. Once they’ve found the correct stop and direction, it is a reassurance to unfamiliar passengers that they are getting on the right bus and that it goes to where they want to go.
Geordie driver
Member
Off topic but I don't think via points add anything, it's just stuff companies like to do to appear proactive. 99% of passengers will know where they are going and the rest have the ability to read what's at the bus stop , look it up on their phone or ask the driver or other people at the bus stop.
Chris Hamilton
Member
Back when I were a lad.... the local company Hutchisons of Overtown, ran several routes from the Housing schemes of Wishaw (where I grew up) to those in Motherwell via their respective town centres. The buses were very, very popular and often very crowded at the weekends. Quite often they would run another bus right behind the first one with (Number) ”DUPLICATE” on the blind (Especially true on their flagship “Pullman” express service from Cleland to Glasgow, which oddly died a death following the First takeover) For many years as a child, I thought Duplicate was a place.
Similarly as a previous post, buses in Glasgow to “Halfway”. Halfway to where? I was probably in my late teens before I figured it was a town halfway between Hamilton and Glasgow (named as a stop for horse drawn coach services).
Finally, the (formerly and long time numbered) Central/Kelvin/First 67/267 (Now 266) to West Crindledyke. It’s a place you’d struggle to find on a map, a suburb of a village that’s effectively a suburb. I attended high school with dozens of kids that lived there, and they had no idea that is what the area is known as. To them it was just Newmains, as it’s the only substantial housing scheme in the village, the others being in technically separate village, Bonkle (also a funny former destination). My mum, who has spent her entire (mumbled) years living just a field away from West Crindledyke, has no idea where it is.
Similarly as a previous post, buses in Glasgow to “Halfway”. Halfway to where? I was probably in my late teens before I figured it was a town halfway between Hamilton and Glasgow (named as a stop for horse drawn coach services).
Finally, the (formerly and long time numbered) Central/Kelvin/First 67/267 (Now 266) to West Crindledyke. It’s a place you’d struggle to find on a map, a suburb of a village that’s effectively a suburb. I attended high school with dozens of kids that lived there, and they had no idea that is what the area is known as. To them it was just Newmains, as it’s the only substantial housing scheme in the village, the others being in technically separate village, Bonkle (also a funny former destination). My mum, who has spent her entire (mumbled) years living just a field away from West Crindledyke, has no idea where it is.
This is maybe a curious question in regard bus companies....
I notice that if I get the 10 from Dundee City Centre (going to Whitfield) it says Barnhill and somewhere along the route the driver then changes it to display Ninewells Hospital (could be said with the 9's as well), the route is generally a circular but did wonder why not just leave the destination as it or better yet just display "Ninewells Hospital" as thats where they terminate as a circular, they did use to display the routes as Outer Circle but had recently changed to use the Barnhill
Just to add previously the company use to run 7 and 8s as Inner Circles 9-12 Outer Circle (cutdown now to 9s/10s)
I have also noted that Xplore have adapted what I would call what Lothian Buses do.... "part route", they display this now going to City Centre again they use to display as City Centre via destination points or just say City Centre Commercial Street/Whitehall Crecent further examples)
I notice that if I get the 10 from Dundee City Centre (going to Whitfield) it says Barnhill and somewhere along the route the driver then changes it to display Ninewells Hospital (could be said with the 9's as well), the route is generally a circular but did wonder why not just leave the destination as it or better yet just display "Ninewells Hospital" as thats where they terminate as a circular, they did use to display the routes as Outer Circle but had recently changed to use the Barnhill
Just to add previously the company use to run 7 and 8s as Inner Circles 9-12 Outer Circle (cutdown now to 9s/10s)
I have also noted that Xplore have adapted what I would call what Lothian Buses do.... "part route", they display this now going to City Centre again they use to display as City Centre via destination points or just say City Centre Commercial Street/Whitehall Crecent further examples)
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The absence of via points works fine in London; previously the via points could be confusing and I have had visitors who went the wrong way.
When the via blinds were stopped almost every bus stop was fitted with a diagramatic route map so there can be no confusion.
When the via blinds were stopped almost every bus stop was fitted with a diagramatic route map so there can be no confusion.
I'm a Londoner, and there have been times when I want to catch a bus from Waterloo to Elephant & Castle. There are several buses which do this route, but equally quite a few which don't. I can't remember all the bus routes which go my way. When the first bus turns up, if there was Elephant & Castle on the via blind, I would be happy to catch it; the absence of via blinds means it is hit or miss whether or not I catch a correct bus.
I think that only showing destinations is poor - it only helps those prospective customers who want to go to the destination, and not intermediate points. Also showing via points helps advertise the service - people who see that a bus goes via a certain point may make them realise that there are other ways of getting there other than by car.
They were. But many of them are not now (or even worse, have very out of date maps).
Strathclyder
Established Member
Photographic evidence of such a destination. The white-on-red destination display (roller-blind displays only; this died off with the advent of flipdot/LED displays) marks the 104 out as a Cross-Harbour Tunnel route. These are, more often than not, operated by two of Hong Kong's three largest franchised bus operators in a partenership. In the 104's case, these are Kowloon Motor Bus (KMB) & New World First Bus (NWFB), the latter of whom took over the erstwhile China Motor Bus franchise (CMB) franchise (the operator of the Metrobus in the second linked image) effective 1st September 1998.
Statto
Established Member
I don't mind the absence of via points on London blinds, many operators outside London don't have a via blind, or via point on the LEDs like Arriva in my area
As a Londoner I have had exactly the same issues and agree entirely. Those of us who grew up with the classic London Transport format blinds have no problems with them at all as we mentally compensate for the direction of travel. I agree, however, that it could be confusing for somebody from out of Town.
I don't mind the absence of via points on London blinds, many operators outside London don't have a via blind, or via point on the LEDs like Arriva in my area
If you don't mind the absence of via points, do you have any objection if they are included? You can just look at the destination, I can look at the via points as well, then everyone's happy.
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'Part Route' is self explanatory and seems to be a scottish term as I have never seen it in England. When Lothian had roller blinds, they showed 3 or 4 via points, but also showed 'Route Diverted', 'Limited Stop', 'Express' and others all with different colour backgrounds. There was also a tramboard in the front window with additional info, eg 'To Zoo Park' and these were also used to show when special events were on. You can never show too much information for visitors.
I don't mind the absence of via points on London blinds, many operators outside London don't have a via blind, or via point on the LEDs like Arriva in my area
Where I now live in Liverpool, I have a choice of Stagecoach or Arriva buses on the same 14 route into town. Arriva show 14 'Liverpool' and Mann Island below, but Stagecoach show 'City Centre' with scrolling via points below!.
Statto
Established Member
To be honest, i'm not that bothered whether a blind has a via display or not, as long as they're clear to read
Yep, Arriva used to have scrolling via points on their blinds but done away with most of them, i remember when Stagecoach brought GTL & introduced new buses, the whole blind displayed a scrolling advert of the Stagecoach weekly ticket, then went briefly to the number then back to the advertising ticket prices, Stagecoach altered the blind so the number & destination is displayed with smaller scrolling display underneath, no doubt after some criticisms
Pat1105
Member
NXWM display it on their ‘E’ services.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
More due to the fact it's a huge breach of PSVAR regulations.
But even in that example it only works if you're standing on the correct side of the road. Certainly with roller blinds, buses heading north would also say "via Elephant and Castle", even though they'd already been there. So unless you have some local knowledge, they're of little use.
Modern LED displays and live tracking means the via points can update in real time, of course, but that sort of equipment is expensive.
I kinda of knew it from the Lothian buses in doing so but for it to be used up here just seems odd, ie City Centre Part Route, I like the design of the Lothian buses set on the Xplore set Part Route rolls across the blind.
Its the same when we have the free ASDA bus ... on the older Gemini buses its displayed in full ASDA Milton Shoppers Service on the "newer" buses the blind displays this but Shoppers Service rolls....
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What does E mean? Xplore Dundee (again) has it meaning for Evening services? Yet during the pandemic they run the 17 to Whitfield and as a 17e to Ninewells Hospital, I have never seen E been used up here until recently its always been say a 17A for City Centre terminating in the evening? (need to also add Xplore has dropped capitalisiation on destinations ie 1A, 1B its simply 1a, 1b
Pat1105
Member
‘E’ stands for exception, not evening. It indicates a variation to the normal line of route, mainly that the bus is terminating short of its normal destination. These variations aren’t timetabled journeys. There can be many points along a route that an ‘E’ numbered journey will run to. They are points where the bus can turn around safely, for example roundabouts (or islands if you’re from the Midlands!) They do this to recover from lateness, often caused by delays such as heavy traffic or an accident, and get the vehicle back running on time. For example, the 23 normally runs from Birmingham to Bartley Green. However, if the bus is running substantially late, the driver may be radioed and told to run as a 23E to California to minimise how late they are running and try to get back on time.
If it makes it any easier to understand, it’s practically the same as a curtailment in London.
I think the E is added so that it stands out to passengers, as some people just look at the number on the destination screen and pay little attention to where the bus is going. NXWM use the inverted function on Helen to display ‘PART ROUTE’ so that it stands out.
Stan Drews
Established Member
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...or circles if you’re from Dundee!
tbtc
Veteran Member
No, because I can look at the bus stop first to make sure I was on the right side of the road. My issue is when a bus appears on my side of the road, I can't remember instantly which buses go via the Elephant & Castle.
Statto
Established Member
E is/was used a lot to indicate short route, mostly used for last short journeys to the depot, certainly in my area E was mostly used for this purpose, doesn't seem to be the case now
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