Withdrawal of Elgar £20 Note

[transportphoto]

Today is the day in which Elgar £20 Notes are Withdrawn.

From MIDNIGHT today - these notes will no longer be legal tender in shops.



However if you find one of these notes in your house after midnight today then you can take it to most banks/building societies or Post Offices for exchange for £20 or deposit into an account (this will carry on for a few months).

Other than that - if you have any withdrawn BoE note then you can send them to the bank for exchange for their face value:

The Bank of England will always exchange its old notes. Notes may be presented for payment either in person or sent by post (at the sender's risk) to: Dept NEX, Bank of England, Threadneedle Street, London EC2R 8AH

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/twentyv/index.htm

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Can't say i've seen one for about a year anyway?

 

[me123]

From MIDNIGHT today - these notes will no longer be legal tender in shops.

You'll probably find that shops will continue to accept them for a few days yet, actually, even though today is its official last day. Legal Tender relates only to the settlement of a debt, and not to a cash transaction. And this only applies in England and Wales. So there's really nothing to stop a business accepting Elgar notes for the next few days, although the best course of action is to take any to the bank or post office.

Oh, and don't change them for fifties, because they're going to start going through this whole thing in a few months anyway.

 

[Oswyntail]

...Legal Tender relates only to the settlement of a debt, and not to a cash transaction.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. A cash transaction is the settlement of a debt incurred in purchase - cash is legal tender (within specified limits)

...And this only applies in England and Wales. So there's really nothing to stop a business accepting Elgar notes for the next few days, although the best course of action is to take any to the bank or post office....

In fact (just stirring the pot a little) the situation would be similar to that of Scottish banknotes, which are not legal tender, even in Scotland, but are promissory notes deemed to be an acceptable alternative

 

[me123]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. A cash transaction is the settlement of a debt incurred in purchase - cash is legal tender (within specified limits)

The thing is that legal tender has no bearing on purchases whatsoever. It is all to do with settling a debt. Legal tender is a method of payment that cannot be refused in settlement of a debt. And a typical purchase in a shop is not settling a debt; it is more like an agreement between the purchaser and the vendor. Legal tender does not apply when you buy a newspaper, for example, hence why buying a newspaper with a fifty pound note (which is legal tender for all amounts) will almost always be refused. On the other hand, restaurants would have to accept Legal Tender, as you are in debt to them when you pay. And let's face it, they don't want to try and get the food back once you've eaten it

In fact (just stirring the pot a little) the situation would be similar to that of Scottish banknotes, which are not legal tender, even in Scotland, but are promissory notes deemed to be an acceptable alternative

Well, English banknotes are not legal tender in Scotland either. And I assure you that we don't go around up here with pockets full of pound coins! No banknotes at all in Scotland are considered legal tender; the protection perhaps was not seen to be needed. (The only exception would be any Bank of England £1 note).

Basically, these notes can and will be refused from tomorrow. But some people (particularly larger retailers) will probably continue to accept them from a while. The removal of legal tender status does mean that, in a restaurant, the notes can now legally be refused, whereas they cannot today. But in reality, I don't think you'll have problems just yet.

 

[Oswyntail]

The thing is that legal tender has no bearing on purchases whatsoever. It is all to do with settling a debt. Legal tender is a method of payment that cannot be refused in settlement of a debt. And a typical purchase in a shop is not settling a debt; it is more like an agreement between the purchaser and the vendor. Legal tender does not apply when you buy a newspaper, for example, hence why buying a newspaper with a fifty pound note (which is legal tender for all amounts) will almost always be refused. On the other hand, restaurants would have to accept Legal Tender, as you are in debt to them when you pay. And let's face it, they don't want to try and get the food back once you've eaten it
...

Ah, I see what you mean now - thanks. The transaction of purchase starts (IIRC) with an "invitation to treat" on the part of the seller, and he can refuse to finish the transaction at any stage (ie, by saying "£50 note for a cup of coffee - you're having a laugh mate") and no debt is incurred. However, what would happen if he handed over the cup of coffee, and i took a sip out of it while handing over my £50? At that point I have incurred a debt by consuming the product, so presumably he has only two options: accept the note; or give me the sip free of charge. Long time since I studied any law, though, so I could be talking tosh.

 

[dan_atki]

However, what would happen if he handed over the cup of coffee, and i took a sip out of it while handing over my £50?

What would happen is I would question why he handed you over a cold/lukewarm cup of coffee that you could instantly drink! Therefore, I'd expect the whole cup to be free, not just that sip

But yes, effectively what you say is correct. As soon as you do have that sip, you are then in debt and, by law, the £50 has to be accepted. Whether or not the Barista or his manager will do so, is another matter. Besides, it wouldn't surprise me if we did have a £50 cup of coffee before long anyways!

 

[yorkie]

The £50 would have to be accepted, however that would be a rather expensive coffee!

No-one would refuse £50. However the person offering the £50 would probably be wanting change, but they cannot demand that. If they were to demand change, the request would likely be refused.

http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

 

[richw]

Loomis who collect our takings at work are not accepting Elgar £20 notes as of Thursday off anyone, giving businesses a week to bank any of them,
most banks and building societies are publicising that they wont swap them but will accept for depositing into their customers accounts only.
i work in management for a large multinational company with multi billion pound turnover per year and we are not accepting them as of today, i cannot speak for other companys however!

 

[Donny Dave]

The £50 would have to be accepted, however that would be a rather expensive coffee!

No-one would refuse £50. However the person offering the £50 would probably be wanting change, but they cannot demand that. If they were to demand change, the request would likely be refused.

http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/policies/legal_tender_guidelines.aspx

AFAIAA, if you offer a £50 note to pay for a cup of coffee, and the retailer refuses to accept it, you are deemed to have settled your debt, so you can take the note back, and walk away with the coffee. The retailer would not be able to do a thing as they have refused a perfectly legal way to settle the accrued debt.

 

[me123]

That's about right David. It's really just protection for a court case; if you refuse legal tender in payment of a debt, then you don't have much of an argument in court.

There was a case in Scotland fairly recently where a guy refused to accept £100 and Scottish £50 notes in payment of a debt, and took the debtor to court. This was a bit bigger than a cup of coffee! The argument was that he was entitled to refuse these notes because they weren't legal tender in Scotland. However, the debtor won the case because, under Scots law, the largest denomination that is legal tender is the £2 coin, and this would be rather impractical.

Of course, if you have reason to believe that the notes in question are counterfeit, then that's a different matter.

 

[Greenback]

As I understand, in England and Wales there's no legla requirement to give change. Is that the case in Scotland? And if so, how does that impact on the hypothetical £50 coffee scenario?

 

[First class]

As I understand, in England and Wales there's no legla requirement to give change. Is that the case in Scotland? And if so, how does that impact on the hypothetical £50 coffee scenario?

It would be a very expensive coffee!

 

[Mvann]

It all boils down to what's legal tender and what's legal currency. We have had Stephenson £5 notes, Manx and gibraltan notes in work. Our bank accepted them (though the gibraltan note caused some confusion). The only note I didn't try and bank was a Manx 50 pence note. I suspect if a duke of Wellington £5 note turned up at work, we wouldn't bank it as it's probably worth more than £5.

 

[Greenback]

It all boils down to what's legal tender and what's legal currency. We have had Stephenson £5 notes, Manx and gibraltan notes in work. Our bank accepted them (though the gibraltan note caused some confusion). The only note I didn't try and bank was a Manx 50 pence note. I suspect if a duke of Wellington £5 note turned up at work, we wouldn't bank it as it's probably worth more than £5.

It took me two years to change £50 of Gibraltar notes. Eventually a travel agent accepted them. Although I managed to pass one to an Eastern European on a the Brittany Ferries Pont Aven from Plymouth to Santander. By accident I might add!

 

[me123]

As I understand, in England and Wales there's no legla requirement to give change. Is that the case in Scotland? And if so, how does that impact on the hypothetical £50 coffee scenario?

I think the "no change" thing applies in Scotland. However, no notes (except the non-existent Bank of England £1 notes) are legal tender up here anyway, so the losses are rather less substantial!

Only coins and BoE £1 notes are legal tender in Scotland.

 

[charlesn132]

You can change any amount of money at the Bank of England, even from World War 2:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...202/Elgar-20-note-no-longer-legal-tender.html

 

[transportphoto]

You can change any amount of money at the Bank of England, even from World War 2:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...202/Elgar-20-note-no-longer-legal-tender.html

Yes as said, the Bank of England will 'exchange' any withdrawn BoE note for its face value.

 

[krus_aragon]

Yes as said, the Bank of England will 'exchange' any withdrawn BoE note for its face value.

I wonder if they destroy very old notes, or do they sell them on to numismaticians? (sp?)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They destroy them, though I guess if they were handed in something really old and rare they would have second thoughts.

But of course, anyone finding a note like that would surely sell it privately rather than just try to get the face value back for it - hopefully!

 

[Mojo]

If they do destroy old notes, I hope they do this on-site rather than sending them on trains up the WCML

 

[Wyvern]

Apparently they may be turned into (a very rich ) compost :roll:

BBC NEWS: The demise of the Elgar £20 note

 

[Tom B]

I understand that the only legal tender notes are CURRENT Bank of England £1 notes. The BofE doesn't print £1 notes anymore and the last ones were withdrawn in 1988ish.

A few months ago there was some problem at one of the banks in Edinburgh, they had no £1 coins, and so had to give retailers £1 notes as change instead. Bet that confused a few tourists!!

 

[cuccir]

In my days working in a tourist attraction in the Lakes we used to get a smattering of Scottish and Irish notes, but I only ever took one £1 note; I decided to swap it for a pound coin that I had so I've still got it kicking around somewhere! Whenever I've been to Scotland (not very often!) I've never seen a £1 note or received one: are they particularly rare, or do they pick up on my accent and avoid giving me one to remove confusion (I know I used to try and give out Scottish notes to Scottish people if I had one and was low on fivers)?

Fun fact - copper coins are only legal tender for amounts up to 20p!

 

[CarterUSM]

In my days working in a tourist attraction in the Lakes we used to get a smattering of Scottish and Irish notes, but I only ever took one £1 note; I decided to swap it for a pound coin that I had so I've still got it kicking around somewhere! Whenever I've been to Scotland (not very often!) I've never seen a £1 note or received one: are they particularly rare, or do they pick up on my accent and avoid giving me one to remove confusion (I know I used to try and give out Scottish notes to Scottish people if I had one and was low on fivers)?

Fun fact - copper coins are only legal tender for amounts up to 20p!

Indeed they are pretty rare, I only see them once in a while, and the newest notes I've seen are 2002 issue I think. Though not too long ago someone paid their fare with 3 mint condition clydesdale bank pound notes from 31st May 1982. I quizzed the gentleman a little about them, and it turned out that his mother had kept them for him as they were issued on his date of birth. I felt a little rotten taking them as payment though.

 

[route101]

I think only the Royal Bank of Scotland £1 notes are floating around now , even then im not sure if they still issue them .