Tickets purchased on the web

[moonrakerz]

I have just visited my local station (FGW) today to collect some tickets I had bought via the FGW website,. Neither ticket machine would dispense pre-paid tickets (they were issuing tickets for cash though !), I went to the booking office which was locked up for the day.
Luckily, the tickets were not for today, however, suppose they had been.......

Could the train staff issue the tickets on board ?
There is a further problem attached to this; I purchased the tickets on my credit card for my wife, who is actually travelling, so she would not be in possession of the credit card actually used to buy the tickets.

What would you do ?
a. As the passenger
b. As the ticket inspector

(Just to confuse it still further........... the journey is via London, with two different TOCs, neither of which is FGW !)

 

[wibble]

I'm sure each TOC would have it's own policy, but the guard could issue you with an Unpaid Fares Notice and ask you to collect your ticket(s) from the ticket office at your interchange station. (At the end of your journey, you'd need to send off your UFN with your tickets and the UFN would be cancelled.)

If you end up having to buy additional tickets, this should be fully refunded as long as you are still making your original booked journey. If facilities to collect your ticket, you shouldn't be penalised because of it (although you may have the inconvenience of having to buy new tickets and claim a refund on them.)

 

[Greenback]

I have just visited my local station (FGW) today to collect some tickets I had bought via the FGW website,. Neither ticket machine would dispense pre-paid tickets (they were issuing tickets for cash though !), I went to the booking office which was locked up for the day.
Luckily, the tickets were not for today, however, suppose they had been.......

Could the train staff issue the tickets on board ?
There is a further problem attached to this; I purchased the tickets on my credit card for my wife, who is actually travelling, so she would not be in possession of the credit card actually used to buy the tickets.

What would you do ?
a. As the passenger
b. As the ticket inspector

(Just to confuse it still further........... the journey is via London, with two different TOCs, neither of which is FGW !)

This is exactly why I prefer to have my tickets posted to me if possible!

I don't believe on train staff have access to the booking system, so would be unable to print the tickets, unlike the booking office.

If it happened to me, I would either:

a) buy new tickets from the TVM, and fire off a strongly worded complaint to FGW, which I am reasonably certain would result in a full refund plus compensation vouchers

OR

b) Try and speak tot he TM/conductor before boarding to explain what had happeend and hope they would allow me to travel or issue an UFN.

I think I'd be more inclinded to follow b if I had a print out of my reference number and journey details, and if I was strapped for cahs at the bank or near my credit card limit.

If I was the ticket inspector, my response would depend on what the customer said, any evidence they had plus guidelines and briefings issued by my employers. As has been said, every TOC would probably have a slightly different policy!

 

[rail-britain]

I purchased the tickets on my credit card for my wife, who is actually travelling, so she would not be in possession of the credit card actually used to buy the tickets

This is a common issue where the person travelling did not pay for the tickets

 

[shinkansen1966]

A faulty ticket machine unable to dispense you the tickets you'd already paid for. Now that is interesting. At first I'd consider standing my ground with the ticket inspector. After all, I'd paid for the tickets and the TOC had failed to discharge their responsibilities to issue a ticket for journey. Though I guess you'd end up having to pay for a new ticket and claiming a refund.

A couple of weeks ago, I managed to travel without a ticket at all on a FGW trip from Exeter to Paddington. It was only atfer I'd boarded the train, that I realised I lost my ticket. The conductor was happy with email receipt confirming purchase (thankfully still on my phone); the corresponding credit card and the seat reservation.

Several other european national rail operators now have ticketless travel by SMS or email available on a national basis for many advanced purchased tickets. When exactly will the UK adopt national ticketless SMS/email travel for advanced purchase fares ?

 

[Greenback]

I must admit I'm happier with a traiditonal paper ticket! We haven't got a printer to print any emails and a SMS message would worry me in case the phone broke down or ran out of juice. Maybe I'm just an old fogey though!

Interestingly, all the hotels we've been to in the last few years don;t need the confirmation email or the booking reference, I just give them my name and passport/credit card and they're happy enough!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

A faulty ticket machine unable to dispense you the tickets you'd already paid for. Now that is interesting. At first I'd consider standing my ground with the ticket inspector. After all, I'd paid for the tickets and the TOC had failed to discharge their responsibilities to issue a ticket for journey. Though I guess you'd end up having to pay for a new ticket and claiming a refund.

A couple of weeks ago, I managed to travel without a ticket at all on a FGW trip from Exeter to Paddington. It was only atfer I'd boarded the train, that I realised I lost my ticket. The conductor was happy with email receipt confirming purchase (thankfully still on my phone); the corresponding credit card and the seat reservation.

Several other european national rail operators now have ticketless travel by SMS or email available on a national basis for many advanced purchased tickets. When exactly will the UK adopt national ticketless SMS/email travel for advanced purchase fares ?

Two points - in relation to the original conundrum, on board we have no way of verifying ticket reference numbers and advance booking data. The official instructions we have are that if the passenger is unable to collect the ticket for whatever reason, then they should be sold a new ticket and advised to contact the retailer where they purchased the original ticket from. This may sound harsh, but from a reference number there is no real way of knowing what type of ticket it is, whether it is valid on that train, etc. It also can't be cancelled to prevent further use or refund application. Now in some cases it is easier to use one's discretion - ie if the passenger has the full email print out and it is an advance ticket which cannot be used on any other train or refunded- in which case you may choose to allow them to travel without the ticket.

Secondly, more and more TOCs have systems in place for new types of ticketing. At TPE we have e-tickets, Virgin has mobi-tix etc. As reliable technology develops - which doesn't cost a fortune - then I'm sure the use of such tickets will spread further.

 

[northwichcat]

ie if the passenger has the full email print out and it is an advance ticket which cannot be used on any other train or refunded- in which case you may choose to allow them to travel without the ticket.

Plus in that case a seat reservation on the confirmation email means it's easy to spot if there is someone trying to use the corresponding ticket as they'll be on the same train and sat in the wrong seat.

 

[Old Timer]

I have found that it is not always necessary to use the same credit card to collect the tickets as that which paid for them.

As for using the booking receipt, I understand that a practice has emerged of people trying to use that claiming that the ticket machine would not print the ticket.

Unfortunately it was the usual scam in the vast majority of cases, with two people trying to travel on the same booking. Virgin now refuse to accept such receipts, and sell you a ticket and refer you to the station or TOC where you claim the problem was.

It is also possible to collect at ANY station ticket machine, not just the station specified, as on one occasion the machine had been vandalised and I had to go to another (unmanned) station and use the ticket machine there

 

[moonrakerz]

I have found that it is not always necessary to use the same credit card to collect the tickets as that which paid for them.

I'd be interested in knowing how this can be done - makes a bit of a mockery of the "security" that this is meant to provide.

It is also possible to collect at ANY station ticket machine,

Yes, I was aware of that, but from the symptoms the machines were displaying I would imagine that the problem was in the connection to the machine, rather than in the machine itself - so there would be a good chance that the machines elsewhere wouldn't dispense the tickets either. Apart from which, the passenger would then have to get back to the original station in time to catch the correct train - otherwise they would be penalised for joining "short" or "long". We used to use Pewsey a lot, nearest others, Westbury or Newbury - 3 day camel ride, if you can find a camel

I just get the impression that the TOCs are introducing more and more things to "improve" (cut their costs !) the railways and that when these "improvements" fail then it is the poor old innocent passenger who is lumbered with all the inconvenience and possible extra costs that this incurs.

 

[fgwoll1e]

Can only use an alternative card if booking is setup as third party.

How long after booking did you try to collect it? As trainline bookings tend to take about 2-3 hours to process. (FGW Website uses trainline)

 

[Old Timer]

I just get the impression that the TOCs are introducing more and more things to "improve" (cut their costs !) the railways and that when these "improvements" fail then it is the poor old innocent passenger who is lumbered with all the inconvenience and possible extra costs that this incurs.

Welcome to modern life !

I went into Sainsbury's the other evening to find that some of the auto checkouts did not work but that the store has now reduced its staffing levels, so the theoretically quick turnround was far longer than before.

You cannot get cashback, only at a manned till and there are miles of queues of trolleys for the couple that are open. Add to that fact the non-working cash dispenser !


A local Shell garage apparantly only has one pump where you can now pay in the shop, yet the others have defective printers so you cannot get a VAT receipt, so you have to go back out and re-queue into the long queue which of course consists of Company Car drivers who need VAT receipts !

It is not just the Railways.

 

[moonrakerz]

Welcome to modern life !

I went into Sainsbury's the other evening ..................

My local Morrisons had an "age check" on my Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago !

How long after booking did you try to collect it? As trainline bookings tend to take about 2-3 hours to process. (FGW Website uses trainline)

Both machines had a large red X over the "collect pre-paid tickets" button - which made me think that there was some kind of data link problem.

 

[Deerfold]

My local Morrisons had an "age check" on my Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago !

Did it come with a free DVD? If so that may have caused restrictions on the sale.

If not it may have been a hangover from an edition which did come with a DVD which has not been cancelled.

 

[moonrakerz]

I went to the station again this morning - machines still not giving out pre-paid tickets. Went to booking office, lady happily gave me tickets.
I asked her what would have happened had I wanted to get the train yesterday - she said that I could have got the tickets on the train, when I pressed her on this and said they were:
1. Advance Tickets
2. Already paid for
she then said that the Ticket Inspector would "probably" let me ride to the next station and I could get my tickets there. I didn't point out that having got off to collect my tickets, the train would have left without me. I would then have had the "right" tickets but would have missed the "right" train !

That's why I always collect my tickets early !

Thanks for all the comments.

Did it come with a free DVD? If so that may have caused restrictions on the sale.

If not it may have been a hangover from an edition which did come with a DVD which has not been cancelled.

In that case were not the paper shops breaking the Law by allowing "minors" to deliver this item ?

 

[sheff1]

Both machines had a large red X over the "collect pre-paid tickets" button - which made me think that there was some kind of data link problem.

Must be something to do with the heat - I passed through Sheffield station on Monday and 2 of the 5 machines which should dispense pre-paid tickets were completely out of order and 2 others had the red X you describe. Quite a queue had developed then but if this were to happen on a Friday it would be chaos.

I think this is another area where clear guidance to passengers and staff is required (but won't be provided) - it surely can't be right that where a TOC is unable to deliver an already paid-for ticket the passenger is in the invidious position of either missing their train or being at the whim of the conductor.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I went to the station again this morning - machines still not giving out pre-paid tickets. Went to booking office, lady happily gave me tickets.
I asked her what would have happened had I wanted to get the train yesterday - she said that I could have got the tickets on the train, when I pressed her on this and said they were:
1. Advance Tickets
2. Already paid for
she then said that the Ticket Inspector would "probably" let me ride to the next station and I could get my tickets there. I didn't point out that having got off to collect my tickets, the train would have left without me. I would then have had the "right" tickets but would have missed the "right" train !

Well folk giving out inaccurate information like that is one of the reasons I had an exchange of views this morning with a gentleman from Bolton.

He had purchase tickets from thetrainline for a journey from Bolton to Scotland, but as Bolton has no SSTM to collect tickets from he was intending to travel to Preston with the reference number to collect his tickets there. He had been allowed onto the station by the G4S numpties who said it was "ok", and apparently the ticket office said "that is fine, just show the reference number". I made him buy a single to Preston and advised him to contact thetrainline. I advised him that Bolton was not a station at which he could collect tickets, but he said that he noticed that when he booked them and opted to collect at Preston en-route.

The Trainline booking website says the following in its Ts&Cs:

Collecting tickets at the station: For many bookings we allow you to collect tickets from a range of stations. You must allow sufficient time to collect your tickets before boarding the train. You must have your ticket collection reference, and (unless stated otherwise) the credit/debit card used to make the purchase as identification. You should note any special collection instructions given during the booking process, for example the station opening hours.

You must ensure that you are in possession of the tickets booked before you board the train. If you cannot produce a valid ticket for the class of accommodation and service that you are using, you will have to pay the appropriate fare on the train and a penalty fare may also be payable.

If you are unable to collect your tickets (for example due to the ticket machine(s) being out of service) then you should contact the station staff for further assistance. If there are no staff at the station, you should board your booked train, and make yourself known to the on-train staff at the earliest possible opportunity.

Just to check up on what the chap said when I made him pay for the bit to Preston, he said that he wasn't aware that he must have his tickets. I have just used The Trainline to simulate his journey for another date, and have opted to collect the tickets at Preston, as he did. And Guess what?? In red highlighted text next to the confirm button, it says:

Collecting from self-service machine
Choose Station:
The station at which you have selected to collect your ticket is not the station from which your train will leave. You must have collected your tickets before starting your journey. If this is correct please click on Continue to proceed.

So the website does tell him, and he did know.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Must be something to do with the heat - I passed through Sheffield station on Monday and 2 of the 5 machines which should dispense pre-paid tickets were completely out of order and 2 others had the red X you describe. Quite a queue had developed then but if this were to happen on a Friday it would be chaos.

I think this is another area where clear guidance to passengers and staff is required (but won't be provided) - it surely can't be right that where a TOC is unable to deliver an already paid-for ticket the passenger is in the invidious position of either missing their train or being at the whim of the conductor.

There is clear guidance. The Fares Manual says:

On-train procedures if a customer has been unable to collect a ToD

If a customer has boarded a train without a ticket and claims that he/she attempted to collect a ToD booking for the current journey, then the following steps should be taken unless local instructions apply:

1.Sell the customer a new ticket.

2.Tell the customer that if they wish to claim a refund for the replacement ticket, they should contact the seller from whom they purchased their ToD.*

Local instructions could be a major system failure which means the TOC will page out a message to Guards advising to allow passengers from station X to travel with a reference number until they can collect their tickets.

 

[sheff1]

Interesting that the Trainline T&C says:

If you are unable to collect your tickets (for example due to the ticket machine(s) being out of service) then you should contact the station staff for further assistance. If there are no staff at the station, you should board your booked train, and make yourself known to the on-train staff at the earliest possible opportunity.

The initial reference to assistance followed by the instruction to make yourself known to train staff implies that the train staff will also assist, which I would take to mean issuing the ticket already paid for.

However, kvwr45 advises that instructions tell him to issue and charge for another ticket. This apparent conflict, coupled with the advice given to the OP at the station, suggests that existing guidance is not clear to all.

 

[Greenback]

It's not clear, as there appears to be one set of guidance for staff, if kwvr is quoting from The Manual, and this is not the same, either in words or clarity, as that in the public domain.

 

[moonrakerz]

Quote:

"On-train procedures if a customer has been unable to collect a ToD

If a customer has boarded a train without a ticket and claims that he/she attempted to collect a ToD booking for the current journey, then the following steps should be taken unless local instructions apply:

1.Sell the customer a new ticket.

2.Tell the customer that if they wish to claim a refund for the replacement ticket, they should contact the seller from whom they purchased their ToD."


Hmmm !
I fully appreciate that the train staff are "only obeying orders" - but this just highlights (so beautifully !) my earlier point about when all the technology fails (which it does far too often) it is the poor b****y passenger who has to "pay" - either literally or metaphorically.

I note that the instructions use the word "claims" rather than "states" - the intimation here is that anyone without a ticket is undoubtedly on the fiddle !!