Should Class 800 be ordered for the Cross Country franchise?

[The Ham]

So 2 changes to travel from Birmingham or Manchester to the south coast but 3 changes if travelling from Coventry, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke, Derby, Burton etc etc.

Sounds like an excellent way of encouraging potential rail passengers to drive instead.

Whist it's two changes, it does shorten the journey time by around 70+ minutes vs the current journey time by road or rail.

If you've got a 9am meeting would you rather leave at 5am or 6am?

Part of the train people don't like changes most of that is down to worrying about missed connections. Other than the Southampton/Reading leg the other legs would be fairly frequent. As an example Old Oak Common to Manchester or Birmingham would be 3tph. As such the delay by missing a connection would be fairly small.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Not quite every one, but we should be thinking more along the lines of which routes it wouldn't make sense to electrify, then electrify everything else. 2040 is doable with a rolling programme. 2030 is no longer achievable.

Ok I would agree with you for some railways. Such as the Far North Line in the Scottish Highlands or the Heart of Wales line, because these lines are very scenic, adding electrification overhead gantries would spoil the beautiful nature and cause visual pollution. So I was thinking, third rail operation, where no overhead gantries are needed, or even keep the railway unelectrified but use battery electric powered trains like that one class 379 once did would be the best solution.

But important corridors such as the GWML between Chippenham and Bristol (idk if they are going to electrify that part or not), extension of MML to Doncaster, Oxford to Birmingham, Bristol to Birmingham, Liverpool or Crewe to Chester, Bangor & Holyhead and Bristol to Penzance are the ones where proper OHLE electrification takes priority.

 

[Energy]

Ok I would agree with you for some railways. Such as the Far North Line in the Scottish Highlands or the Heart of Wales line, because these lines are very scenic, adding electrification overhead gantries would spoil the beautiful nature and cause visual pollution. So I was thinking, third rail operation, where no overhead gantries are needed, or even keep the railway unelectrified but use battery electric powered trains like that one class 379 once did would be the best solution.

But important corridors such as the GWML between Chippenham and Bristol (idk if they are going to electrify that part or not), extension of MML to Doncaster, Oxford to Birmingham, Bristol to Birmingham, Liverpool or Crewe to Chester, Bangor & Holyhead and Bristol to Penzance are the ones where proper OHLE electrification takes priority.

Really? We should stop electrification of routes because it may look a little less nice than before? Its still an operational railway, I wouldn't go and build it in 1960s style concrete but stopping OHLE is stupid. Look at Europe's railways, lots of scenic mountainous lines and beautiful railway viaducts are electrified with OHLE, and they still look great.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? We should stop electrification of routes because it may look a little less nice than before? Its still an operational railway, I wouldn't go and build it in 1960s style concrete but stopping OHLE is stupid. Look at Europe's railways, lots of scenic mountainous lines and beautiful railway viaducts are electrified with OHLE, and they still look great.

Wooden uprights might be a good way to wire a line like that.

 

[Energy]

Wooden uprights might be a good way to wire a line like that.

Maybe but is it a fire hazard and could be lit by high voltage? I honestly think that done right OHLE will look fine, sure it may look a little worse but it is still a railway and we shouldn't be holding ourselves back from progress because it looks a tiny bit worse when electrification brings many upsides and environmental benefit. Batteries aren't great for the environment because they take a lot to make and hydrogen isn't meant to be overly efficient in terms of energy but is still better than fossil fuels.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Really? We should stop electrification of routes because it may look a little less nice than before? Its still an operational railway, I wouldn't go and build it in 1960s style concrete but stopping OHLE is stupid. Look at Europe's railways, lots of scenic mountainous lines and beautiful railway viaducts are electrified with OHLE, and they still look great.

Oh, good to know. Must have been imagination. I agree that stopping OHLE is stupid indeed.

 

[quantinghome]

Ok I would agree with you for some railways. Such as the Far North Line in the Scottish Highlands or the Heart of Wales line, because these lines are very scenic, adding electrification overhead gantries would spoil the beautiful nature and cause visual pollution. So I was thinking, third rail operation, where no overhead gantries are needed, or even keep the railway unelectrified but use battery electric powered trains like that one class 379 once did would be the best solution.

But important corridors such as the GWML between Chippenham and Bristol (idk if they are going to electrify that part or not), extension of MML to Doncaster, Oxford to Birmingham, Bristol to Birmingham, Liverpool or Crewe to Chester, Bangor & Holyhead and Bristol to Penzance are the ones where proper OHLE electrification takes priority.

The decision won't be based on scenery, but on how much traffic the lines have. The priority must be the the main lines and commuter routes including all the ones you mention. At the other extreme, long stretches of lightly used single track railway are not the priority. Their contribution to carbon emissions will be tiny, and it will be far cheaper to run them with hydrogen technology, or batteries if the range can be achieved. Naturally there will be some lines where the case for electrification is marginal, but this would be improved by a rolling programme which reduces cost per km.

Some work is already being done to identify the scale of the work needed: https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2020/03/13/getting-electrification-done-the-net-zero-imperative/