Really don't have a hope in hell. Captain Permatan tipped hot favourite before the process even begins; an integrated WC service or some other nonsense doing the rounds as the reason behind that.
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DfT to put new 390s into store
- Thread starter Peter Mugridge
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Really don't have a hope in hell. Captain Permatan tipped hot favourite before the process even begins; an integrated WC service or some other nonsense doing the rounds as the reason behind that.
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Dreadnought
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Am I missing something here? I thought that there was a tender process for each franchise and it was based on the individual bids who gets the franchise.
Reading your statement tells me that even if Virgin put in the "best" bid for the franchise they won't win it and this Captain Permatan (whoever he is) is going to get it anyway. If that happens does that not leave the DfT open to a legal challenge on how the franchise has been let?
The Planner
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So you really think all the current franchises have been let on who had the best bid and not who claimed to give back the most cash ??
Lampshade
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hock:
Dreadnought
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That is why I put the quotation marks around best! I just never clarified that by best I meant for the DfT and not the passenger.
Umm yes to everything
Granted their is a tendering process, but DfT know exactly who has what bid and are able to find reasons to get rid of them one by one. Take the new XC franchise; Arriva and Virgin both submitted bids. DfT just don't like Virgin after everything they've put them through, on paper both bids were pretty damn good, Arr also offered a higher premium. Virgin had more innovative ideas that went beyond the call of the franchise spec, but Arr got it anyway.
With the WC, thats exactly whats going to happen. Virgin will put in a bid, DfT will find reasons not to like it, even it if is the best bid on paper and then give it to someone else who may or may not offer more money.
Captain Permatan started as a crude gimick, now meant to be Keith Ludeman, boss of GoVia.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Its easy to come up with conspiracy theories when someone "loses" a franchise...
Were First out of favour when they "lost" the Greater Anglia franchise, yet suddenly flavour of the month when they "won" Thameslink?
As we don't know the full details, we really can't comment
Were First out of favour when they "lost" the Greater Anglia franchise, yet suddenly flavour of the month when they "won" Thameslink?
As we don't know the full details, we really can't comment
Umm yes to everything
Granted their is a tendering process, but DfT know exactly who has what bid and are able to find reasons to get rid of them one by one. Take the new XC franchise; Arriva and Virgin both submitted bids. DfT just don't like Virgin after everything they've put them through, on paper both bids were pretty damn good, Arr also offered a higher premium. Virgin had more innovative ideas that went beyond the call of the franchise spec, but Arr got it anyway.
With the WC, thats exactly whats going to happen. Virgin will put in a bid, DfT will find reasons not to like it, even it if is the best bid on paper and then give it to someone else who may or may not offer more money.
Captain Permatan started as a crude gimick, now meant to be Keith Ludeman, boss of GoVia.
At the time, as we now know, DfT were simply seeking the highest payments. Unnecessary frills would not have been taken into account.
Giving the franchise to the best financial bid is not anti-Virgin.
They were not necessarily; Arriva offered again an unrealistic bid for EC which was much higher than NX. If this was the case then Arriva would have picked this one up too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was demonstrating that reasons were found to dismiss Virgins bid, when it was a healthier bid. They also lost out to First who were considered 'more favourably' than the Virgin bid (or words to that effect, can't remember the release off-hand) despite having a much lower bid value.
If you want a good insight into bids and the various practices behind them, speak to Mr Miles.
That is opinion though. But a fact is that it went to the best financial bid.
Quite - I misunderstood you at first.
My opinion is that DfT have consistently shown anti-Virgin rulings at every turn, and I also think that they have sufficient reason to do so, even if I don't agree with it.
Fact is that the franchise was awarded to the bid which give the highest financial return, which is not necessarily the "best financial bid" (as this is where I misunderstood you); by referring to that, I had assumed you meant the healthiest bid, ie all factors considered. If we apply that, XC is not the best financial bid at all. Granted it gave the highest return, but also carried the most risk (both financially and managerially) which is shown to now be at detriment to us.
Interestingly (and completely OT) cap-and-collar is due to kick in very soon isn't it? November if I remember correctly? That could make for some interesting headlines.
Dreadnought
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Thanks for this! I did wonder if you had meant GoVia when you mentioned an integrated WC franchise, but had never heard of anyone called Captain Permatan, well not on the railways anyway
. Also, has GoVia really improved LM that much that they would be considered for an integrated franchise which includes an InterCity route in addition to a suburban one?Tony Miles writes quite a bit on WNXX so I have been able to gain some insight in to how the process works and the hoops that franchisees have to go through just to try and make a change / improvement during the life of their franchise.
You used the example of Cross Country where Arriva won with the highest financial return but they now appear to have failed to deliver on the additional proposals they submitted. It will be interesting to see what if anything changes when the DB takeover of Arriva is finally confirmed.
Hopefully the experience of this bidding process (and to a degree the East Coast one as well which ended in abject failure for Nat Ex) will result in a better way of actually determining which bid is actually the healthiest in terms of financial return and actually being able to deliver what they have stated.
Don't bet on DB takeover changing anything; the only thing that changes is where the dosh ultimately ends up in practice.
LM have in the most recent NPS improved in all but one area, with a satisfaction of 86%. Admittedly when you pit this against the mid 60% satisfaction recorded in early 2008, its easy to see how LM are now statistically the "most improved operator" both NPS and punctuality (92.7% overall; Centro area typically higher).
Still doesn't change the fact that they're totally ****ing useless at everything and at the slightest sign of trouble, management throw in the towel at the earliest opportunity.
LM have in the most recent NPS improved in all but one area, with a satisfaction of 86%. Admittedly when you pit this against the mid 60% satisfaction recorded in early 2008, its easy to see how LM are now statistically the "most improved operator" both NPS and punctuality (92.7% overall; Centro area typically higher).
Still doesn't change the fact that they're totally ****ing useless at everything and at the slightest sign of trouble, management throw in the towel at the earliest opportunity.
Geezertronic
Established Member
I'm just trying to picture a 390 in LM colours 
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